From Hero to Zhiro (1999 Sixbolt_16g)

[SixBolt_16G]

This is good - really good progress. Not too lean at all. Your setup looks like it has a late VE peak! I'm going to look at both 15 and 16 psi pulls, but the way your intake is performing, it looks like we can slide 100's into the 5500rpm column, and lean out 4500-5000. The trick is to see how much more you need up top to confirm we are putting the peak in the best spot. Basically - one area of the VE map will have 100's and hitting AFR target just with global fuel. Every other spot on the VE map should go lower than 100. Lets see how this goes...

Could you elaborate on what having a late VE peak means and what effect that has?

 

[Justin DuBois]

Could you elaborate on what having a late VE peak means and what effect that has?

Sure, the stock 2G VE peak (98-100) is in the 4.5k rpm column. In your case the intake and turbo are flowing so well, you don’t have the typical fall off in the 5-6.5k rpm range. You are actually getting a VE peak later in the rpm band. I’m going to post up a new suggested global fuel and SD map.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Here is the data from the 15psi pull.

If we look at widedband factor for each RPM cell that was touched in the pull, and we add or subtract that amount from the VE table, we can see there is a global shift plus individual shifts to a new VE number. The highest point on the VE map to calibrate against wideband is later - 6-6.5k rpm. I'm going to suggest a half way to the goal move, and try again - same boost.

This is the rough calculated values without smoothing.

Half of -3 Global - 1.5% global
Stand By for a smoothed table - (I need a snack)

 

[Justin DuBois]

Original Global Fuel: -51.2
New Global Fuel -50
New Table:

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Original Global Fuel: -51.2
New Global Fuel -50
New Table:
View attachment 764704

Updated table:

Updated Fuel:

These past few runs have felt great! The car runs well.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Global fuel is really close. See the AFR alignment now at 6000 rpm - at your peak 100ve, the WB factor is 3% lean. One more click Global Fuel richer, and you can leave it - and do the rest of the calibration using the VE table.

The stock VE table has this bump at 3000 rpm, which you don't need with this turbo - we can flatten out the VE ramp and it should snap in pretty close.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Previous Global Fuel -50
Try this:
New Global Fuel -49.6

 

[Justin DuBois]

Your 16G does not have the traditional boost spike - at least not at this boost level, and the higher VE peak I suspect is related to your Kelford 272 cams. Do Kelford 272 cams require adjustable cam gears? or are you using the stock cam timing?

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Update table:

Updated fuel:

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Your 16G does not have the traditional boost spike - at least not at this boost level, and the higher VE peak I suspect is related to your Kelford 272 cams. Do Kelford 272 cams require adjustable cam gears? or are you using the stock cam timing?

Unfortunately, i dont have enough knowledge about timing to give you anything substantial. I didnt start doing a lot of my own work til recently (like last 2 years), which most that has been suspension and fuel. Havent done much engine work myself. Engine was built by Boostin' Performance back in like 2012 with not a whole lot of miles put on it since. The build spec sheet they gave me back then doesnt go into details other than parts.

I know that I have stock cams gears, and not adjustable ones. I thought someone had mentioned in the past that the timing had been advanced, but I cant say for sure. Is there a way to advance timing with stock cam gears or is there an easy way for me to check?

Only other thing that has come up when it came to tuning the car, was the last shop questioning me about whether this car has low compression pistons or not and I think they came to the conclusion that it does. Not sure if that makes any difference at all.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Unfortunately, i dont have enough knowledge about timing to give you anything substantial. I didnt start doing a lot of my own work til recently (like last 2 years), which most that has been suspension and fuel. Havent done much engine work myself. Engine was built by Boostin' Performance back in like 2012 with not a whole lot of miles put on it since. The build spec sheet they gave me back then doesnt go into details other than parts.

I know that I have stock cams gears, and not adjustable ones. I thought someone had mentioned in the past that the timing had been advanced, but I cant say for sure. Is there a way to advance timing with stock cam gears or is there an easy way for me to check?

Only other thing that has come up when it came to tuning the car, was the last shop questioning me about whether this car has low compression pistons or not and I think they came to the conclusion that it does. Not sure if that makes any difference at all.

You answered the question. If you have stock cam gears, then the Kelfords 272 work with stock cam timing.

If you don't mind - I can put on my instructor's hat. Soon you will need to be the one making the suggestions on what to edit - and I'll help you through it. Looks like you can go one more click richer on global fuel. Was -49.6, Next -49.2 (why do you think I suggest this?)

The selected area on the plots are 100 under to 100 over the RPM range the cell is targeting. I rt-clicked the selection as chose "Display selection averages".

This boost level is nearly calibrated. Based on the latest pull - look at these screens and tell me what you see.
Using the process I have shown you so far, showing the average wideband factor - what would you do to the cells at 3000 and 3500 rpm?

3000 rpm

3500 rpm

 

[Justin DuBois]

What are you using for Crank and Cam sensors? - Pictures if you can.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

What are you using for Crank and Cam sensors? - Pictures if you can.

Would i be right in saying that I d9nt have a crank sensor anymore since its a 1g in a 2g and it just uses the 1g CAS?

 

[Justin DuBois]

Would i be right in saying that I d9nt have a crank sensor anymore since its a 1g in a 2g and it just uses the 1g CAS?

View attachment 764851

View attachment 764852

Yes - both the crank and cam signal are most likely coming from this green top optical 1G CAS.
Have you verified the position of the sensor using a timing light?

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Yes - both the crank and cam signal are most likely coming from this green top optical 1G CAS.
Have you verified the position of the sensor using a timing light?

I have not for myself, but i believe they did at the shop. Should i get ahold of a timing light and verify it myself?

 

[Justin DuBois]

I have not.

Before we touch the timing tables, we will need to verify if the position of the CAS is correct. Do you have a timing light?

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Before we touch the timing tables, we will need to verify if the position of the CAS is correct. Do you have a timing light?

I do not.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I do not.

Put that on your shopping list. You can get a basic induction timing light for not much money. You will need one.

Meantime - what do you think about the VE values in the cells at 3000 and 3500 rpm?

 

[SixBolt_16G]

If you don't mind - I can put on my instructor's hat. Soon you will need to be the one making the suggestions on what to edit - and I'll help you through it. Looks like you can go one more click richer on global fuel. Was -49.6, Next -49.2 (why do you think I suggest this?)

Did you do an average of the whole WOT run and the WBFactor was like 1.0% lean.... so you took that value and cut it in half to make it just a little richer over all?

This boost level is nearly calibrated. Based on the latest pull - look at these screens and tell me what you see.
Using the process I have shown you so far, showing the average wideband factor - what would you do to the cells at 3000 and 3500 rpm?

3000 rpm
View attachment 764843

3500 rpm
View attachment 764844

3000 is lean by about 2% and needs more fuel, 3500 is rich by 5% and needs less. The 90 cell needs to increase fuel and the 88.5 cells need fuel taken out. Altho im not sure which direction would be increasing fuel/takes it out. But the speed density table is about air isnt it? So we are restricting air, so we are increase/restricting the amount of air in order to regulate fuel?

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Put that on your shopping list. You can get a basic induction timing light for not much money. You will need one.

Meantime - what do you think about the VE values in the cells at 3000 and 3500 rpm?

Decent?

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Ordered! Should be here Wednesday. Next 3 days are suppose to be a washout here. So should be ready to go for the weekend.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Did you do an average of the whole WOT run and the WBFactor was like 1.0% lean.... so you took that value and cut it in half to make it just a little richer over all?



3000 is lean by about 2% and needs more fuel, 3500 is rich by 5% and needs less. The 90 cell needs to increase fuel and the 88.5 cells need fuel taken out. Altho im not sure which direction would be increasing fuel/takes it out. But the speed density table is about air isnt it? So we are restricting air, so we are increase/restricting the amount of air in order to regulate fuel?

So 90 becomes 92 at 3000 and 88.5 becomes 83.5 at 3500?

 

[Justin DuBois]

You did an average of the whole WOT run and the WBFactor was like 1.0% lean.... so you took that value and cut it in half to make it just a little richer over all?

More specifically, I'm looking at the AFR when VE is "100" (VE 1.000). If you follow the guideline to not use any values in the VE table higher than 100, then the only way to make 100 richer is to change the global fuel value. In this case, the 6000 rpm point at 13psi using VE 100 results in a 10.8 AFR - which is a WB Factor of 1.9% (leaner than 10.5:1 target) As we are so close to hitting the target, and there is always variability in every system, one click on the global fuel value moves you 0.4% closer globally - which will likely move more than 0.4% in AFR and is the least amount you can change globally.

3000 is lean by about 2% and needs more fuel, 3500 is rich by 5% and needs less. The 90 cell needs to increase and the 88.5 cells need fuel taken out. Altho im not sure which direction would be increasing fuel/takes it out.

Yes! - Do exactly that. Add 2 to the cells in the 3000 column (90 becomes 92 - more rich), and remove 5 from the 3500 column (88 becomes 83 - more lean). Today I suggest populating the same values from the measured cell all the way to the bottom. When you have actual data from pulls at higher boost levels, you will check if those pre-populated values need adjustment. It is sometimes better to creep up on the right value, but you can always back off if you overshoot the target.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

More specifically, I'm looking at the AFR when VE is "100" (VE 1.000). If you follow the guideline to not use any values in the VE table higher than 100, then the only way to make 100 richer is to change the global fuel value. In this case, the 6000 rpm point at 13psi using VE 100 results in a 10.8 AFR - which is a WB Factor of 1.9% (leaner than 10.5:1 target) As we are so close to hitting the target, and there is always variability in every system, one click on the global fuel value moves you 0.4% closer globally - which will likely move more than 0.4% in AFR and is the least amount you can change globally.


Yes! - Do exactly that. Add 2 to the cells in the 3000 column (90 becomes 92 - more rich), and remove 5 from the 3500 column (88 becomes 83 - more lean). Today I suggest populating the same values from the measured cell all the way to the bottom. When you have actual data from pulls at higher boost levels, you will check if those pre-populated values need adjustment. It is sometimes better to creep up on the right value, but you can always back off if you overshoot the target.

Im going to go back and read... was trying to think through this while I was working ... and that wasnt working But im not too far off from understanding.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Changes to map:

Going to try to take a run mid morning if I dont get stuck in meetings. Timing light came in today.