Forced Performance Cams

[Scrymerr]

Weather or not you need heavier springs has nothing to do with the manufacturer of the cam, it has to do with lift and duration. Example: The stock cams have .366" in / .343" ex lift. They suggest better springs (just a suggestion though) when you go to .391 / .372 lift, and mandatory when you go to .411 / .391 lift.

Anytime you install cams its best to degree them. Well, degreeing cams is part of installing them. This is preatty much mandatory on ANY cam on ANY motor. It gets you the proper baseline and the best starting results.

That is good to know. Now with this info, what is the lift on HKS cams vs FP2 cams??

 

[rdrkt]

im not share bad information.. ask every wiseman on tuners here.. you need higher tension valve springs when you use higher lift cams.. and when you done use them a majority of the time the valve will float cause you more issues than i choose to type about..

I have been running the stock springs and retainers for a few years now with 272s and rev up past 8k all the time. I have never had any issues and I am running 131 mph traps. I haven’t found a set of valve springs that REALLY prove themselves THAT much better than stock to be worth the price.

 

[almostquick]

ding ding ding, we have a winner, thanks for your input rdrkt

 

[Scrymerr]

That is all I needed to hear as well. I am still interested on the lift of the FP cams vs the HKS. I will try emailing them later. The lift on the HKS cams is 10.3mm (.405") and9.8mm (.386")

--Dan

 

[v8s_are_slow]

some good info coming now. guestion i've got though. for those of you running cams, and cams was the only mod you did at the time, how big a difference did ya notice in the seat of ur pants? i've read that sheet metal intake manifolds can yield 30+ horsepower. but then people are telling me to get the cams vs. the manifold. some guys getting 15 horsepower after cams. okay, what the heck......wondering which route to go and how big of an improvement i'd notice.

sure wish we had some feedback from the FP cam owners though. maybe even those running them without cam gears....

glad i started this thread

 

[almostquick]

this might make you happy V8 http://www.automotosports.com/cam_test.asp , now the FP2 cams are suppost to have a better top end and idle then the 272 Hks' so there might be a higher # from the FP's and the test car has a stock block, head, and HG, very hopeful.

 

[anconover]

I felt a lil on the butt dyno. Car felt like it could pull thru the upper rpms harder. But getting an intake manifold, with no cams, will be no good because stock cams will die. And wont see the best out of the cams at high rpms without intake manifold because stocker will die off. But cams are the best choice IMO.

 

[TSIfreek]

some good info coming now. guestion i've got though. for those of you running cams, and cams was the only mod you did at the time, how big a difference did ya notice in the seat of ur pants? i've read that sheet metal intake manifolds can yield 30+ horsepower. but then people are telling me to get the cams vs. the manifold. some guys getting 15 horsepower after cams. okay, what the heck......wondering which route to go and how big of an improvement i'd notice.

sure wish we had some feedback from the FP cam owners though. maybe even those running them without cam gears....

glad i started this thread

It really comes down to how much power do you plan on making. What turbo are you running? The FP2s may not be the best grind for your combination. I would only go with the FP2s with a sheet metal intake, ported and polished head and at least a 50 trim turbo and be winding the motor to 8k(thats the combo they are desighned for and will see the most results from). Cams work with the rest of the motor combination so if you are using the stock intake and a small turbo and a stock un moded head. I would just go with the FP1 cams. The engine will run bettter and be in the power of the turbo more when you need it on the street. If you have the money for the valve springs and retainers I would get them but they are not needed.
I would like to get the FP1s for my mild set up, but I cant afford them right now with building my motor top to bottom it gets expesive.

 

[almostquick]

they did an intake manifold test too, and the stocker really didnt fall that far off within the limits of the stock redline, its then when the big after market manifolds started kicking major ass. and the stock had one of the best mid range power also. I forgot the site that it was on though.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Supposidly, FP is going to release FP3 and FP4 cams which will require upgraded valvetrain parts... I don't think it's published on thier site, but I read it from someone on the DSMLink forums..

 

[peregrine]

I would only go with the FP2s with a sheet metal intake, ported and polished head and at least a 50 trim turbo and be winding the motor to 8k(thats the combo they are desighned for and will see the most results from).

i presume you mean this for a 2.0. if youve got a stroker motor these are the minimum cam you would need i think. of course you would also have all of the above mentioned parts to get that motor flowing so my post is now rendered useless :laugh:

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i have the sbr GT-13 turbo which uses a 60 trim, dejon front mount, etc. http://members.cardomain.com/v8s_are_slow
of course i plan on getting the manifold as well, but was just wondering which would give me the most horsepower cause that's the one i'll get 1st. cams or intake. then get the other just to compliment it. of course i don't like to do things halfassed but of course i'll be using all the upgrades as i'm able to get them.

i've also heard about the FP3 and 4 cams coming out. wish i knew more info on them and when they were suppose to be coming out. but i may just buy the FP2's for now and upgrade again later i guess if need be. trying to get the most that i can outta this turbo. and since my plates say "EATS V8S" i have to live up to that so i get what i can, when i can.

 

[Blk90TsiAWD]

i have the sbr GT-13 turbo which uses a 60 trim, dejon front mount, etc. http://members.cardomain.com/v8s_are_slow
of course i plan on getting the manifold as well, but was just wondering which would give me the most horsepower cause that's the one i'll get 1st. cams or intake. then get the other just to compliment it. of course i don't like to do things halfassed but of course i'll be using all the upgrades as i'm able to get them.

i've also heard about the FP3 and 4 cams coming out. wish i knew more info on them and when they were suppose to be coming out. but i may just buy the FP2's for now and upgrade again later i guess if need be. trying to get the most that i can outta this turbo. and since my plates say "EATS V8S" i have to live up to that so i get what i can, when i can.

Your going to want to start with cams, if you can only do one right now. An intake manifold without cams and / or headwork is going to look cool, but not be very effective. Think of it like your exhaust, would you run a 4" downpipe and a 2" cat-back? In the case of the intake manifold, the new piece would flow substantially more air at higher RPMs that's a given. But how much use do you think your going to get out of that extra manifold flow, if your motor doesn't have the ability to suck it in there? You may end up with excessive turbulance in the manifold as well as air backs up, not likely but a possibility I believe. Personally, I wouldn't touch an intake manifold untill I had both cams, and substantial headwork completed.

One more thing as well. I'm curious as to why you decided to run a head source oil supply to your GT-13? Historically, that's been an unreliable source and I'd be concerned with oil starvation.

- Matt

 

[v8s_are_slow]

matt, check your pm's. sorry, just trying to keep all non topic related stuff outta this thread.

 

[sLoGSX]

I am running FP2's on my 56trim w/ upgraded springs and retainers, as well as a freshly cleaned head w/ 3 angle and stock valves. I did not need cam gears, which is one of the nice things about comp cams ( fp's). With my DSMLink set to 950 idle the car sounds overall stock. Haven't really gotten to drive on it much, due to some other problems. I will post once I get everything up and running...

 

[myblack98gst]

I agree with many comments listed..


FP1 vs FP2:

the fp1 or the HKS 264 could possibly be a better cam for a street driven 16g car because it will get into peak power and breath the best at a lower/useable rpm. Where as a 272 FP2 you would need to get rid of the rev limiter to really use their full potential.... look at a car with stck cams and one with 272's, the stock cam car will start to level off or loose HP at or around 7,000 rpms, but the 272 car could still be gaining HP at 8,500 and up.. what good would that do you with a 7,500 rpm limiter..

Valve Springs with vs. after vs. needed:

As it has clearly been stated you CAN use the stock springs with a aftermarket cam, it more or less runs into a liability issue though. A stock spring with alot of lift and alot of rpm can start to float faster than a aftermarket spring.. BUT unless you are trying to make your car rev VATTACK style you could stick with the stockers. If you just have the money and want to get the spring anyways I deff. suggest they go in at the same time. Unless you are a gluten for punishment it is a decent amount of work to replace the cams.. and the springs are already exposed once you get to that point so it would only take about a extra hour or so to replace those while yor at it.

Intake manifold:

Same as above, I would wait till you get the cams/springs. You may see that a intake manifold only gained 15-20 whp, BUT take a look at the dyno graphs.. it is all about the power curve, a aftermarket manifold would hopefully have a little faster spool up and a flatter lineonce it peaks out power, where as a stock one would peak then fall off again.
and if you want the higher revs a aftermarket would support the airflow better.

 

[97Boost4u]

ive got crower stage 2s in my 2g and have had them for about 5 months with no problem on stock and cam gears. Most manufacterers if you call them will let you know if the cams they sale need to be degreed. Like my crowers...we called and they said they dont need to be degreed. Also another guy in town running hks 272s with a stock 1g head and gears for awhile with no problem. So basically just call them and they will tell you. And some more info, a guy with the exact same setup as me except for my cams made 20 less hp and 40lbs tq less than my car. o and i had a translator he was using a safc

 

[v8s_are_slow]

was thinkin about something. wonder if anyone would know.

let's say you had 300 horsepower to start with on a 16g, slapped on some cams and got 320 horsepower after the install. of course a 20 horsepower increase. would the horsepower increase be greater if the same thing was done but on a much larger turbo??? say if you had a um (cough cough) GT-13 or something running maybe 400 horses. should i expect only about a 20 horsepower increase by slapping on the cams? or would i notice a much more dramatic increase being that the bigger turbo already allows a much greater airflow capability and so the cams increase it 5 times over or something as compared to the 16g and cams? hmmmm.........

 

[peregrine]

was thinkin about something. wonder if anyone would know.

let's say you had 300 horsepower to start with on a 16g, slapped on some cams and got 320 horsepower after the install. of course a 20 horsepower increase. would the horsepower increase be greater if the same thing was done but on a much larger turbo??? say if you had a um (cough cough) GT-13 or something running maybe 400 horses. should i expect only about a 20 horsepower increase by slapping on the cams? or would i notice a much more dramatic increase being that the bigger turbo already allows a much greater airflow capability and so the cams increase it 5 times over or something as compared to the 16g and cams? hmmmm.........

the latter. its all about how much air ou can cram into the motor. if the valvetrain action is the same a 50 trim would cram so much more air in than a 16g. so yeah i think it would be a linear gain.

 

[gsx951]

okay come on guys, back to topic please. there's plenty of post on pulleys i'm sure. i'm wanting to know about the cams. that's not what this thread is for and i don't want it locked. please let's get back to topic now. thanks!

What's keeping you from phoning TurboBob and asking him?

 

[suicidal2af]

the latter. its all about how much air ou can cram into the motor. if the valvetrain action is the same a 50 trim would cram so much more air in than a 16g. so yeah i think it would be a linear gain.

I think you mean exponential

 

[Revolution]

If you guys were really worried about using the stock springs on an aftermarket cam then why not just shimm the springs?

I dont have the fp cams but I do have my stock cams regrounded to 264 specs ,and when we swapped it , I was told to shim the springs for a bit of security.

Hey maybe that would help?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

well, i'll be buying springs and all within a year. debating right now if i wanna take my head off and port it all out, build up a 95 ported head i have and use it, or just buy a built head that already has the springs and stuff on it and transfer my cams over. but for now i just know that i won't be having the head setup like it is for very long. just have the cams on there for a lil while before somethings done so just wanna slap em on for now so long as i don't have to worry too much.

getting cams on the 1st. intake manifold on the 15th. gotta treat myself for x-mas i guess.

 

[Awdboost]

I have been running the stock springs and retainers for a few years now with 272s and rev up past 8k all the time. I have never had any issues and I am running 131 mph traps. I haven’t found a set of valve springs that REALLY prove themselves THAT much better than stock to be worth the price.

I second that.. I'm on Bone stock 7-bolt motor with HKS 272/272 Have rev it to 8k more than once but don't make any power because of intake restrictions and ports.

 

[VRMAN]

I am adding COMP 101 cams to my freshly rebuilt head and 54trim turbo. I'll let you know what the dyno says when we're done. No cam gears or upgraded retainers.