Forced Performance Cams

[nanokpsi]

Contact robet at forced performance for the valve springs to use for those cams. He would be the only one I would ask.

I did talk to robert on abother forum. He said the Fp springs are actually the same pieces I was looking at getting. I am going to order them shortly.

Swordfish gained 19whp and 30 wtq from switching form the fp2 to the fp 3. These are the same grinds as the comp 101200 and 101300 repectively, except with a slightly different centerline. I am confident I will pick up a good 35+whp from the 101400s over the current 264/272 combo I have. Not to mention the other long list of stuff that is going on the car (Magnus SMIM, ported 1g head w/ 1mm os valves, LR 2.4).

 

[98spydert]

Probably beating a dead horse with the review but I finally installed my cams a few weeks ago with a 1G head and a few other things. Pre cams, cheapo autometer gauge read 20-22 at idle and after the cams it reads 16-18 at a 850 idle. I bumped it up a tiny bit to a 900-950 and the lump is almost non existent. I like the light brap, brap, brap sound but sometimes from a stop it would hesitate a little while cruising around town. With a slightly higher idle, the hesitation is gone. I still get full boost 24psi around 3300rpm (evo316G). Airflow doesn't tapper down after 5K anymore like it used it. Airflow per rev stays a lot more consistant all the way across the powerband. I've got a small boost leak at the water injection nozzle and a coolant leak at the water neck but after fixing those two bugs, I'll tune the thing and post some logs.

 

[kazzam]

Probably beating a dead horse with the review but I finally installed my cams a few weeks ago with a 1G head and a few other things. Pre cams, cheapo autometer gauge read 20-22 at idle and after the cams it reads 16-18 at a 850 idle. I bumped it up a tiny bit to a 900-950 and the lump is almost non existent. I like the light brap, brap, brap sound but sometimes from a stop it would hesitate a little while cruising around town. With a slightly higher idle, the hesitation is gone. I still get full boost 24psi around 3300rpm (evo316G). Airflow doesn't tapper down after 5K anymore like it used it. Airflow per rev stays a lot more consistant all the way across the powerband. I've got a small boost leak at the water injection nozzle and a coolant leak at the water neck but after fixing those two bugs, I'll tune the thing and post some logs.

Hey, just wanted to ask more questions. which particular cams did you install? the 100 or the 200? You say that it hesitates a bit, can you be a little more spesific about that? Give some examples, that would help out a bit. Perhaps some numbers you could post? How is the traction in the spyder when the cams and boost starting kickin in? traction is worse or better after cam install? that info would help out a bunch. Thank man!!!

 

[98spydert]

Well, the story behind my mini-overhall... I blew my head gasket at the beginning of the year and had my head rebuilt locally while swapping head gaskets. Got it all back together and a few months later, 4 valve seals start leaking out of no where about the same time I bought the FP2 cams. I ended up holding off on installing them, got a 1G head to replace my leaky 2G head, installed the 1G manifold with it, picked up a logic tubular manifold, had a problem with a very thick SS turbo-manifold gasket expanding and eating all 4 turbo bolts so I bought the Bullseye turbine housing rather than drilling out 4 broken bolts, bought a set of 18" 5zigen fn01r-c and, of course, different/ wider tires.

Sooooo Now that there's a LOT more than just the cams changed, it's hard to compair things, even traction with the tire upgrade. I will say when boost hits, traction is non-existant in 1st and 2nd. I'll need drag radials or slicks for track days.

The hesitation is best described as a "bog" as if I didn't give it enough gas while engaging the clutch from a stop. I could just give it more throttle compaired to before the cams to remedy it, but a slightly higher idle fixed it also. It wasn't that big of a deal, just annoying. I can probably post some pre and post logs to compair the airflow. The drop off from 5k on is massive on the stock cams.

 

[kazzam]

sounds like you got a pretty cool setup. do you have any times with it? With the new head and other things, how does the power feel at around 6-7.5k rpm? does it feel consistent, start to drop off, or is it still climbing?
How about 2-3k rpm(thats my regular driving rpm) did you notice a big diff with the new head and intake and cams? thx a bunch!
Peter

 

[98spydert]

sounds like you got a pretty cool setup. do you have any times with it? With the new head and other things, how does the power feel at around 6-7.5k rpm? does it feel consistent, start to drop off, or is it still climbing?
How about 2-3k rpm(thats my regular driving rpm) did you notice a big diff with the new head and intake and cams? thx a bunch!
Peter

Biggest difference I noticed is from 2-3K. It's noticeably sluggish compaired to before, but nothing to get upset about. I'm pretty hard core about having a comfy daily driver with this car and the difference isn't enough to even make ME frown

With the stock cams, I always noticed power peaking around 6.5K and slightly falling off but didn't realize how drastic is was until running these FP2s. First full boost, 3rd gear pull I made, I found my self shifting at 8300rpm! It just wanted to keep on going. I hate myself for not throwing in the Super Tech springs and retainers while the head was out now. The power band seems to be expanded more than shifted. I know the cams are supposed to shift the power band higher into the rpms but I didn't notice anything with WOT, low end performance except for the slower spool but only by 300-400 rpm. It still feels strong if I mash on it in 4th or 5th on the free way.

 

[kazzam]

awesome info bud! i reallly apreciate it.
I have a 50trim and get usable boost at 3700rpm. i am not planning on swapping a head or doing the manifold. but to have my boost response shifted up 300-400 would suck. i would prabably go with the fp1s for that reason... or, get fp2s and then trade with someone for the smaller ones. again, thx for the info. best of luck toya

 

[Spartan302]

Anybody know for sure if upgraded valvetrain is needed for the fp3 cams in a stroker 2.3 application. I won't be reving as high as you 2.0 guys. Been trying to get a hold of fp but they haven't returned messages yet. Thanks.

 

[98spydert]

Yes, for sure. FP says so anyways.

 

[TSIfreek]

Anybody know for sure if upgraded valvetrain is needed for the fp3 cams in a stroker 2.3 application. I won't be reving as high as you 2.0 guys. Been trying to get a hold of fp but they haven't returned messages yet. Thanks.

I would go with these duals from supertec. http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/supervskits-mitsu.html

 

[nanokpsi]

I would go with these duals from supertec. http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/supervskits-mitsu.html

That link looks familiar That is the one I will go with for my 101400s, but I may opt to get them from FP to see if they are fined installed straight up or if they need to be shimmed.

 

[Forces32psi]

i have the dual springs and titanium retainers from SuperTech, w/ the cam3's in my 2.3 stroker w/ the fp3575. they work great.

 

[Spartan302]

Was any machine work need for those springs and retainers. I got off the phone with fp and they have a set of duel springs and retainers that they say won't need machine work. I'm guessing these just became available since they aren't on the site yet.

 

[Forces32psi]

nothing needed any machine work, and i put everything in myself. BUT my head allready had the 1mm oversize valves, just w/ stock springs from when i had web street grinds.

 

[highbooster]

has anyone on this borad ever floated a valve using new or low mile stock springs much less crower aftermarket springs with stock cams/web/hks/comp/ect.... why the rush to spend almost 400 hard earned bux on something that aint broke.

 

[highbooster]

i also called comp and the tech on the line said stock springs should work fine. he said if aftermarket springs were needed then comp would of made them for the cam.

 

[peregrine]

has anyone on this borad ever floated a valve using new or low mile stock springs much less crower aftermarket springs with stock cams/web/hks/comp/ect.... why the rush to spend almost 400 hard earned bux on something that aint broke.

have you ever seen the destruction thats caused when a valve floats and the keepers come off? thaqt doesnt happen too often but better safe than sorry.

 

[Forces32psi]

i went a head and spent the $$ and got the springs and retainers because i JUST got cams and wanted to install everything at the sametime while the motor was apart because its easier, and because Robert at Forced Performance says that the cams NEED the higher rate springs. and im running a 2.3 stroker that has been o-ringed, and i run a built head, and a expensive turbo.. and if i took the chance of "trying" to run stock springs im just asking to spend the $400 for the springs AFTER i have to get all new 1mm oversize valves, another $100 headgasket, possibly new o-rings which reqiures the motor to be pulled and dissabled, not to mention the cost of labor and machine work AND the possiblity of trashing my $1500 turbo that is brand new from floating th evalves because i decided to try and take a shoortcut and run stock springs. getting the correct springs for these cams is just cheap insurance and will save me the price of replacing all this and downtime of my car.... just get the springs, so we dont have to read a thread that says "i ran the fpcam3's w/ stock springs and ruined everything at 8000rpms"...

 

[Suparata]

You did the right thing but please break down the sentences in your posts so other guys can also understand what the message is and what they need to do.

 

[Forces32psi]

You did the right thing but please break down the sentences in your posts so other guys can also understand what the message is and what they need to do.

stock springs w/ fpcam3's and turning high rev's w/ your motor= floating the valves and replacing expensive motor internals and maybe your turbo.

supertech or other after market springs and retainers that are what is suppose to be used w/ fpcam3's= NOT replacing motor internals or taking the chance of tearin shit up... broken down enough??

 

[TSIfreek]

Still cant understand you. Use periods and capital letters at the beginning of a new sentence.

 

[highbooster]

forces i get what you are saying and I'm not knocking you at all. I'm just trying to figure out if aftermarket springs are a must with these cams. i just have not seen the evidence to prove their need. these are not the first or the wildest set of aftermarket cams made for the 4g63 since 1990. valve float was never was a problem in our 4 valve head for 15 years. I'm just not 100 percent convinced it is a problem now. sorry guys for not capitalizing but my shift key is on its last legs.

 

[TSIfreek]

Ok sure you can run them but why take a chance??? If your trying to save money dont put the cams in until you can afford it. I have springs in my head. I dont need them but its just good insurance. These 2.0 motors love high rpm so a good spring is something I would want to have DOWN the road. You may not have problems now but the stockers will wear out and problems will happen at the rpm the cams are designed to run in.
Next time you change oil put vegtabele oil in and see how long it runs. It will run but for how long. (I have always wanted to try this.)

 

[highbooster]

Ok sure you can run them but why take a chance??? If your trying to save money dont put the cams in until you can afford it. I have springs in my head. I dont need them but its just good insurance. These 2.0 motors love high rpm so a good spring is something I would want to have DOWN the road. You may not have problems now but the stockers will wear out and problems will happen at the rpm the cams are designed to run in.
Next time you change oil put vegtabele oil in and see how long it runs. It will run but for how long. (I have always wanted to try this.)

tsi i think your missing my point. i agree that aftermarket springs are great. that point is not being debated by me. I'm just looking to separate fact from fiction. if the motor is truly in need of higher spring rates with the comp/fp1234 can a inexpensive shimming of a new factory valve spring get the job done. is there anyone on the board in the know on this matter.

 

[Suparata]

I'm just looking to separate fact from fiction. if the motor is truly in need of higher spring rates with the comp/fp1234 ....

You might get away with stock springs on the milder cams if you don't rev it too high but not on the 3 and 4 where higher spring rates are needed.

... can a inexpensive shimming of a new factory valve spring get the job done.

Stock springs are very close to coil bind as they are so further shimming is out of the question.