Fastener Torque Values [Merged 3-9] value tightness torques specs specifications

[GreddySpyder]

I changed my leaky oil pan gasket not long ago and it is still leaking. I used red rtv as the gasket and ran a nice continuous bead around the whole pan making a circle around each bolt hole. I think the two mistakes I made were not waiting for the RTV to dry before putting the pan back on, and I think I tightened the bolts too much ( I ended up breaking one of them).
I'm gonna buy a torque wrench and make sure they are right this time... how much torque do the pan bolts require? How long should I let the RTV dry this time before putting the pan back on?

 

[absolute_DSM]

No, you twist in the studs hand tight, then torque the nuts to 80+ ft lbs. I know some guys go upwards of 100 ft lbs on those nuts.

 

[btak]

The studs just have that little allen key on the top I think for those I didnt tighten them down horribly tight because it doesnt look like that can hold much but for the arp nuts that you put on I did it to 85 Im pretty sure. I know what you mean with just wanting something to work out so far i have put about 1300 worth of parts and shop labor and my car still isnt running that great. Just keep researching and asking people on the forum. there are lots of smart people on here

 

[btak]

Wow over 100 that seems like a whole lots but I guess it depends on what they are running. I think my studs were a little over hand tight but hopefuly i didnt screw stuff up. I know I didnt use the torque wrench for those studs. You would have one heck of a time attempting to get those studs out if you did it to 80 thats if they wouldnt strip anything

 

[absolute_DSM]

No No No.


Reread what I posted.

STUDS = HAND TIGHT

NUTS = 80+ ft lbs

If you read the directions ARP provides, its all explained in black and white.

 

[lowandsleekDSM]

Absolute dsm thats EXACTLY what i was looking for!! sweet guys thanx a lot! yea im just now getting to my rebuild..been waiting for freakin 2 months to do a stock rebuild which is way too long in my opinion but hey money is kinda lacking right now but im cool with it. Thanx for all the info! This is why im here in tuners, love this site

 

[1992awdlaser]

Absolutedsm is right. I torqued mine to 100 with the arp moly lube but wouldn't recommend it. After I did it I was thinking and came to the conclusion that going that tight might crack the head. It didn't on mine though.

 

[lowandsleekDSM]

Yea i wasnt too comfortable reading about 100 ft/lbs. but i did end up torquing mine to 80 ft./lbs. so im good with that

 

[absolute_DSM]

If for some reason you start pushing coolant after the ARP install, pull the valve cover and check the torque on the head bolts. You may have to torque them to 85-90 ft lbs.

 

[914g63gsx]

i torqued mine to 118, the directions said 120 with the moly lube so i did 118 i dont know why 120 seemed high. but after reading this 100 seems high i havent had no problems yet

 

[1992awdlaser]

i torqued mine to 118, the directions said 120 with the moly lube so i did 118 i dont know why 120 seemed high. but after reading this 100 seems high i havent had no problems yet

You did one of three things:

1. Read the directions wrong.
2. Got directions with a mis-print.
3. Forgot what you torqued them to and think it was this.

I do know for a fact they don't recommend a torque number that high even with oil.

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

120 is very high. Mine are between 90 and 95 ft lbs. I consider that comfortably high. That's on a mitsu composite HG.

Be absolutely sure to clean out the stud holes before installing the head studs. Any coolant or oil in them can/will screw up both the depth of the stud and your torque readings. Don't just soak it up with a rag or quickly blow it out with air. Make sure to blow the holes out and then visually check to be sure they are clean and dry.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Be absolutely sure to clean out the stud holes before installing the head studs. Any coolant or oil in them can/will screw up both the depth of the stud and your torque readings. Don't just soak it up with a rag or quickly blow it out with air. Make sure to blow the holes out and then visually check to be sure they are clean and dry.

I forgot to mention that. It could also cause a cracked block.

 

[gnon18s]

No No No.


Reread what I posted.

STUDS = HAND TIGHT

NUTS = 80+ ft lbs

If you read the directions ARP provides, its all explained in black and white.

Jeez! talk about having to spell it out. Good Job! As far as the final torque on the NUTS, Don't get fancy with it. ARP wants the bolts/studs "stretched" to a certain point. when guys torque them higher then recomended, They are stretching the bolts/studs higher than ARP recomends. More is not always better!!

 

[kenamond]

Okay, here's a stupid question. Isn't there a benefit to a higher torque (within reason)? Will you be able to hold the head down better (hold at higher boost/compression) if you go on the high end of the reasonable range? Or is there a compromise with doing this? Anyone have a good upper bound number that is a good compromise?

Sorry if this seems like jacking, but I'm thinking out loud (and taking notes for the future).

 

[haioku-rocket]

man don't listen to these people that are using moly-b and torquing 100+. There just plain stupid. They are going to cause damage/warping head etc etc.


I would use engine oil for lubricant if you are going to torque 90-95, if you use moly then the torque would significantly be lower. If people can run 50psi+ of boost and making 1000WHP+ on 95 ft-pounds with oil as a lubricant then its good enough for me.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Okay, here's a stupid question. Isn't there a benefit to a higher torque (within reason)? Will you be able to hold the head down better (hold at higher boost/compression) if you go on the high end of the reasonable range? Or is there a compromise with doing this? Anyone have a good upper bound number that is a good compromise?

Yes, it will hold the head down better. The only side effect is if you go too high and crack the head like I mentioned. And maybe not being able to reuse them.

man don't listen to these people that are using moly-b and torquing 100+. There just plain stupid. They are going to cause damage/warping head etc etc.

Don't call somebody stupid when you don't know anything about them. I am the one that posted the ninth post. You will NOT warp the head no matter what torque you use if done in steps like it is supposed to be done. Cracking the head can happen though. I didn't cause any damage and my car was running for 5,000 miles. You also replied to my other thread about running 10's on a 50 trim and stock bottom end. Do you think that somebody stupid will be able to achieve that? And believe me my car will go 10's when it is together. And the 1000whp cars you are talking about are using different stronger head studs that don't stretch easily.

 

[tkelly27]

I have a hangover, so feel free to make corrections, but here goes.

A higher torque may or may not be more effective in holding the head down. You will probably see more initial clamping force, however there is the definite possibility of entering the plastic phase of the material. That is the bolt essentially failing. When it's designed to do this in a torque to yield situation, this is a good thing, it means a numskull like me can't screw up the pre-load with his harbor freight torque wrench. When the bolt/stud is not designed to yeild, and it goes into a yeilding condition, bad things can happen. Other things that can go wrong with too tight, from what I've heard, it can push head gasket material into the combustion chamber where it will die young and recklessly.

Three other final notes. Number one, I've read that with a torque wrench you can only get the pre-load accurate to within 15%, assuming it's even calibrated properly. Number two, ARP spent a lot of time, energy, and money to get the torque specifications they recommend, and they are that way for a reason. Finally, it seems telling to me that for higher hp applications instead of recommending more pre-load, they recommend a stronger head stud material. If there was more clamping force to be had from the studs, one imagines they would use it.

 

[casperfast]

If for some reason you start pushing coolant after the ARP install, pull the valve cover and check the torque on the head bolts. You may have to torque them to 85-90 ft lbs.

so if the head bolts are a little too loose that can cause pressure in the coolant system? what about on a dissel? i did a head on a cummins and the coolant system was getting 25 psi. new head, new gasket correct torque. i thought it was a cracked cylinder

 

[kenamond]

Okay...so is 90-95 pushing it a bit? Also, I thought the torque specs were based on using a specific type of lube (to account for a certain amount of friction). Wouldn't using oil instead of moly lube change the torque spec required? I realize that the actual goal is stretching the studs a certain amount, but they know how much torque will do that (when using a certain lube). Seems like "RTFM" applies to head studs.

 

[rarson]

ARP wants the bolts/studs "stretched" to a certain point. when guys torque them higher then recomended, They are stretching the bolts/studs higher than ARP recomends. More is not always better!!

ARP studs don't stretch. That's why you don't have to replace them every time the head is off (unlike the stockers, which do stretch).

 

[1992awdlaser]

Okay...so is 90-95 pushing it a bit? Also, I thought the torque specs were based on using a specific type of lube (to account for a certain amount of friction). Wouldn't using oil instead of moly lube change the torque spec required? I realize that the actual goal is stretching the studs a certain amount, but they know how much torque will do that (when using a certain lube). Seems like "RTFM" applies to head studs.

I am pretty sure it is 85 they recommend if using their moly lube which is what you are talking about. And I think they recommend 95 with 30 weight oil. RTFM?

 

[MY1GDSM]

This is why people do research and not just what everyone says

SO HERE

ON The BOTTOM of my ARP HEAD BOX as the OP started to say

We recommend the use of our Assembly Lubricant Or thread sealer When Tightened dry unplated fsteners used up to 85% of the applied torque simply overcoming the friction between the threads. To insure that all ARP fasteners deliver optimum level of service the installed residual stress is Calculated and verified for your Convenience Use the Chart at right to Precisely Duplicate the Recommended Tightening Specifications.

the chart on the right States that

For a 11mm stud (7 bolt motor) with a Fastener Tensile Strength in (PSI)
OF--------------------------------------W/30 wt. oil------W/moly lube
170,000-180,000----------------------------80----------------63
190,000-200,000----------------------------90----------------71
220,000-------------------------------------100---------------79

Now
With a 12mm Stud (6bolt)

170k-180k----------------------------------97----------------77
190k-200k---------------------------------109----------------86
220k---------------------------------------122---------------96

I don't see why anyone would Torque to any other value with out Reson
Which nobody has stated what there resoning Was...

IMOA Use the moly lube NOT oil ... Mine came with it (some don't) its only like $5 and torque to THESE VALUES ONLY, Last time I checked they are already higher with the lube then the Tq. Valves for the Stock Torque to yield bolts Dry?

Also What tkelly27 said in Post # 20 Is about the best 3 points made

 

[pj91gsx]

I noticed the differences in the auto and manual crankshafts on the flywheel side. Can I take the nub out of the manual and put it in the auto crank. Is there a way to take out the thing in the middle of the auto crankshaft?

 

[steve]

I thought that the crankshaft bushing was only used with the AT. What do you have in your manual crank?
The bushing comes out with a bearing puller on a slide hammer.

 

[bastarddsm]

I did the at to mt swap. and i agree with steve. for mt use you shouldn't have anything in the crank, except for the dowel pin.