Evo VIII Cams in DSM? [Merged 5-9] 8 cam

[acidxrain]

My friend is upgrading the cams on his evo VIII so he'll be getting rid of the stockers. Would the stock evo cams be a good upgrade for my car (97 gsx)?

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I think this is a good idea, it's not everyday that someone is willing to risk there motor to see if something works, I commend your efforts.

 

[teletran1]

hey thanks for trying this out, i see that you used my pictures that i posted in the Galantvr4.org board (i go by tsiboy there) . i posted the idea there about just rotating the disk on the CAS a while back but got zero response from the guys over there. im glad to see that someone is ventureing to try it out. goodluck, please continue to update.

here is the gvr4 thread with a few pages of discussion

GalantVR-4.org: Evo 8 cams?

 

[H82lose91]

I can tell you guys now, that the poster Digit on the VR4 forum is full of shit. He has never done this install and is why he never posted any info or answers to specific questions.

OP good luck. Personally i would have tried this on a junk head or motor before sending one out get freshend up and have the possibility of wrecking all the work you just paid for.

 

[1qkfwd]

I can see this as a mod just like removing the restrictor pill out of the BCS. Don't any one knock the guy for trying. I would like to see if this really works. I can get a set of these cams for free so it would be that little bit more of en edge like changing your cloged fuel filter. I will say that i have a set of fidenza cam gears for one of my cars and it has two sets of holes one of them even say EVO on it. The gears ony have one set of timing marks though. Keep us updated on how this goes.

 

[turbolarry]

I say do it and good luck. Hopefully it works. Even if there are no gains in the Evo cams, there will be evidence that could open more cam possiblilities for others in the future.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

What is the status?

 

[Zex4g63]

What is the status?

Status is that defiant said it won't work.

 

[H82lose91]

Bottom line is they work.

Im confused. You just listed like 3 things you still needed to do, so how can you conclude "They Work"? Im all for trying new things and making power on a budget but this just seems like a huge pita for minimal gains at best.

 

[Zex4g63]

Im confused. You just listed like 3 things you still needed to do, so how can you conclude "They Work"? Im all for trying new things and making power on a budget but this just seems like a huge pita for minimal gains at best.

Sorry defiant said they will not work.

 

[Freerevving]

pictures damnit

 

[RoasT BeeF]

I agree. We need some documentation of this.

 

[Defiant]

This thread was about whether they could be made to work. Yes is the answer.

Not yet, it isn't.

Let us know when (if) they do.

They won't.

 

[Zex4g63]

Not yet, it isn't.

Let us know when (if) they do.

They won't.

God has spoken! Hahaha

 

[delta448]

^ Instead of the sarcasm and name-calling, you could have made your point simply by showing us pics of the cams installed in the car and a vid of the car running with them. Or you could have just admitted that you tried very hard but were unfortunately not successful and fessed up respectably. By editing your posts and taking jabs at a moderator you are only leading us to believe you're thin skinned. I anticipated some degree of disappointment from this thread at the start, but not this and not from you.


I expect the next great flickering lightbulb will be someone saying they are going to swap a complete Evo 9 head and switch the intake/exhaust orientation, or something similarly cumbersome.

Don't get offended so easily, if it weren't for people like you who are willing to try new things like this and learn from it then our cars would all still be completely stock.

 

[Defiant]

Hm. An atheist accused of having God's voice. Odd conundrum. I suspect a vortex of logic.

Now that you've put into the ante, here's the deal: think of yourself as a cam rocker roller. Sit in the roller, just like you're sitting in a roller-coaster car. Stretching out in front of you is the track, and ahead of you is a hill that you'll be going up and over. Oh, and the ride will be very, very fast. Since this isn't a Ducati ride, nor a Mercedes M198 engine, we'll be taking the retaining wheels off the bottoms of the trucks, counting only on gravity (the valve springs) to keep us down on the track.
As we approach the hill, which turns out to be much more steep that it looked like, the rise into the actual climb is tapered some so that our spines aren't speared upward into our brain cases (although most still have enough room in there that damage would be minimal). Kind of like the way a driveway's curb is cut down to near street-level, to save you denting your rims every time you head toward the garage. In the case of DSM valve assemblies, the acceleration ramp is made so that it gives the hydraulic lifter a chance to adjust whatever clearance may be in the valve actuation system, and to keep from slamming the rocker bearings and valve stem tip.
The acceleration away from the ground (cam circle center) keeps increasing as we near the crest of the hill. However, at the summit, we can't be going so fast that we fly off the track (valve float), and the track is carefully designed to keep us just at the edge of flying-off.
As we reach zero gravity, the track starts to fall out from under us again. And again, the profile of the track is arranged so that the wheels never come free of the rails (and the valves and followers don't float). It's not the same shape as the up-side of the ride was, but we're falling very quickly (the valve is closing). But we don't want to drive off the curb and land hard, and we don't want the valves to hammer-out the seats. So there's another nice, smooth ramp to bring us back to ground level (cam circle base). This also is designed so that the fancy suspension under our roller-coaster car (hydraulic lifter) doesn't bounce nor go soft. If the roller-coaster was a hardtail (solid lifters) it would have a different shape from the one we're on. And oh, looky, another hill already. All this crap has to go on just the same, every time, up to seventy times every second. No jostling the riders, no "getting air", no driving up over nor off the edge of the curb. Just nice and smooth, up and down, fully controlled against gravity (valve spring pressure) every last time.
So, what happens if we pick the coaster car up, turn it around and ride the track backward? Oh, we'll still go up and down. The summit will be a bit iffy, because all the careful sculpturing that made sure we'd stay against the rails in the other direction is now tending to bump us clear of the rails at the summit, and the acceleration and deceleration ramps aren't working with this suspension. The lifters are getting pumped-up and bled-down wrong, we're getting air at the peak, and everyone's starting to throw up.

 

[turbodsm18]

Hm. An atheist accused of having God's voice. Odd conundrum. I suspect a vortex of logic.

Now that you've put into the ante, here's the deal: think of yourself as a cam rocker roller. Sit in the roller, just like you're sitting in a roller-coaster car. Stretching out in front of you is the track, and ahead of you is a hill that you'll be going up and over. Oh, and the ride will be very, very fast. Since this isn't a Ducati ride, nor a Mercedes M198 engine, we'll be taking the retaining wheels off the bottoms of the trucks, counting only on gravity (the valve springs) to keep us down on the track.
As we approach the hill, which turns out to be much more steep that it looked like, the rise into the actual climb is tapered some so that our spines aren't speared upward into our brain cases (although most still have enough room in there that damage would be minimal). Kind of like the way a driveway's curb is cut down to near street-level, to save you denting your rims every time you head toward the garage. In the case of DSM valve assemblies, the acceleration ramp is made so that it gives the hydraulic lifter a chance to adjust whatever clearance may be in the valve actuation system, and to keep from slamming the rocker bearings and valve stem tip.
The acceleration away from the ground (cam circle center) keeps increasing as we near the crest of the hill. However, at the summit, we can't be going so fast that we fly off the track (valve float), and the track is carefully designed to keep us just at the edge of flying-off.
As we reach zero gravity, the track starts to fall out from under us again. And again, the profile of the track is arranged so that the wheels never come free of the rails (and the valves and followers don't float). It's not the same shape as the up-side of the ride was, but we're falling very quickly (the valve is closing). But we don't want to drive off the curb and land hard, and we don't want the valves to hammer-out the seats. So there's another nice, smooth ramp to bring us back to ground level (cam circle base). This also is designed so that the fancy suspension under our roller-coaster car (hydraulic lifter) doesn't bounce nor go soft. If the roller-coaster was a hardtail (solid lifters) it would have a different shape from the one we're on. And oh, looky, another hill already. All this crap has to go on just the same, every time, up to seventy times every second. No jostling the riders, no "getting air", no driving up over nor off the edge of the curb. Just nice and smooth, up and down, fully controlled against gravity (valve spring pressure) every last time.
So, what happens if we pick the coaster car up, turn it around and ride the track backward? Oh, we'll still go up and down. The summit will be a bit iffy, because all the careful sculpturing that made sure we'd stay against the rails in the other direction is now tending to bump us clear of the rails at the summit, and the acceleration and deceleration ramps aren't working with this suspension. The lifters are getting pumped-up and bled-down wrong, we're getting air at the peak, and everyone's starting to throw up.

 

[damnslowtsi]

I have a set I 'm looking at right now and they look EXACTLY like 1g cams. I don't really know what kind of "upgrade" they are. 272s I 'm looking at (the head is off right now) have way meatier lobes. Hell, even the cams out of a twin cam 4g64 look meatier than evo's and look more like 272s, just with slightly less lift and likely are better upgrade. Even if they do work which is still unclear, they aren't worth stink IMHO. I have eight bumpsticks in front of me as we speak.

 

[Raph]

Just adding to this- people have been modifing evo 7+8 internals to run on 1g cars, its quite a popular budget mod,because you get evo 7 /8/9 internals off new stock cars (stripped for rally) for next to nothing,another mod is using the natrium filled valves too..cheap as chips .. (Injectors and Mafs too btw... cheapest injectors i ever got were for the equivalent of 10$ on ebay UK ..all new..oin a rally car they swap out everything)

 

[Freerevving]

Not yet, it isn't.

Let us know when (if) they do.

They won't.

I find myself agreeing with Defiant's pessimism... that's weird

The CAS is on the exhaust cam. There might be a problem with advance and overlap.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I was installing EVO cams on a friends car RIGHT before I got called up.

If remember I correctly (which I may be wrong, I only worked this about 1 week, before I got the letter and that was about 9 months ago). you need to machine a slot into the intake came, since the slot for CAS is on the exhaust cam on the EVO and cut new timing marks into the cam gears. The other idea was to see if we could use EVO Cam gears to see if it lined up correctly, I don't know I never got that far. I took pictures and all.

As Sam said (contrary to Defiants assumptions) that cams rotate both the same direction on both cam gears. Opposed to Sam, the cams we got were FREE! And machining a new slot would cost around $25-$50 dollars at a machine shop. Even if the shop got it off a little, the CAS is adjustable to compensate. The EVO cams are a little more aggressive so some gains would be expected. And for some that is all that is needed. Especially in some states where emissions are a b*tch. I would be a good example, I'm looking for a high 300's no more the 400 WHP for a local rally league, but emissions in Northern VA are a pretty strict. However I will probably be going with CompCams 100101 maybe 101100/101200 combo.

 

[Freerevving]

as long as you figure out a way to use the intake cam as the intake cam, it should work... machining should work

 

[z24frank]

I want to know what happened here any updates?

 

[1983gsp]

i guess it diddnt work?

 

[Zex4g63]

Works fine, but see post 46........

 

[H82lose91]

So what were your results? Any dyno or track times to compare before and after too? Your post doesnt make much sense.