Evo VIII Cams in DSM? [Merged 5-9] 8 cam

[acidxrain]

My friend is upgrading the cams on his evo VIII so he'll be getting rid of the stockers. Would the stock evo cams be a good upgrade for my car (97 gsx)?

 

[Exxxel]

This is.....Italian job:

Just machined the new slit on the bottom of E8 exhaust (used as intake) cam.
now the CAS sensing plate is in the correct position.

NOTE THAT IS NOT 90° but closer

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For comparision with the OEM 2g cam:

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Next step, timing....dowel pins are 90 degree off... so I need to remark the gears for the correct timing.

 

[Revmoto]

If this is true then us evo guys basically give our stock cams away for free as they serve us only as paper weights.

 

[Exxxel]

Ok....
Just checked (with old stuff, tensioner, idler etc) the new timing marks, using a pair of Adjustable Cam pulleys (double dowel pin hole EVO/DSM).
All seems to be in order, lobes are aligned in position, so eventually I can adjust by rotating the gear crown.
The slit on the back of the intake cam is perfectly aligned with the mark, allowing to use the stock 2g 97-99 CAS.

Now I can put on all the new parts.

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Finally, we can say (in Mythbusters way):
-Evo 8 cams on 2g head - CONFIRMED

 

[H82lose91]

Explain while the dowel pins at the gears are not in the same orientation.

 

[daplatano91]

So what would have to be done to our head to get the evo9 mivec cams to work =]

 

[Exxxel]

Ok, here is some explain...

First important thing to remember:
- Intake Evo 8 cam IS USED as Exhaust cam for 2g
- Exhaust Evo 8 cam IS USED as Intake cam for 2g

Diagrams below are referred to both intake & exhaust cams with lobes aligned at TDC (dowel pins UP) for 2g, next there are the positions assumed by the Evo8 dowels.

This is the diagram (powered by paint ) of the front side:

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CAS side:

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Sorry, but for the Evo 9 MIVEC system i do not have idea..

 

[xi Talon ix]

Wow I can't believe people are still attempting this. ATTENTION DSMers!! Just buy a damn set of regrinds. The gains that you get from swapping stock cams to Evolution cams is worthless. You can hardly tell the difference. Spend the time you would trying to get them to work at your job to make some extra money to buy some regrinds.

 

[Exxxel]

Wow I can't believe people are still attempting this. ATTENTION DSMers!! Just buy a damn set of regrinds. The gains that you get from swapping stock cams to Evolution cams is worthless. You can hardly tell the difference. Spend the time you would trying to get them to work at your job to make some extra money to buy some regrinds.

I'm doing this, because I bought a RVR engine from US... plus evo8's are free and my teammate owns a machine shop!

 

[Exxxel]

Timing done!

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[Sirnixalot]

So this can be done either way?

Using the Evo exhaust cam as an exhaust cam and the Evo intake cam as an intake cam (machining the CAS slot) as well as swapping them around?

I am only interested in swapping in an Evo 8 280* exhaust cam to replace my 264* Evo 3 exhaust cam and just want to make sure they drop in and will work (i understand the issue of the ramp profile etc)

 

[97gst_spyder]

Wow I can't believe people are still attempting this. ATTENTION DSMers!! Just buy a damn set of regrinds. The gains that you get from swapping stock cams to Evolution cams is worthless. You can hardly tell the difference. Spend the time you would trying to get them to work at your job to make some extra money to buy some regrinds.

You also have to remember that factory evo 8 cams are half the weight of dsm cams, or aftermarket for either car.

Also, you can have the evo cams reground so you have 272's and half the weight.

 

[91stocker]

Hey exxxel did you ever get it fired up with the evo 8 cams? Updates?

 

[Ravenous]

Also, is that an airplane in your shop?

 

[Exxxel]

Hey exxxel did you ever get it fired up with the evo 8 cams? Updates?

Yes! Fired up last week (03/11/2012) and worked well! I can't tell differences because I have swapped from a N/A motor...

Also, is that an airplane in your shop?

yep! dad's lightweight airplane....

 

[Sirnixalot]

I am running an HKS 272* Evo 3/DSM intake cam and an HKS 280* Evo 8 exhaust cam. All i did was rotate the inner part of the cam gear 90* so the timing marks still line up the same on the gears.

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[GoCanes777]

Or just buy a brand name cam and stop being cheap?

 

[Sirnixalot]

Or just buy a brand name cam and stop being cheap?

I guess that doesn't apply to me since its an HKS cam?

 

[Exxxel]

Or just buy a brand name cam and stop being cheap?

That doesn't apply to me, finding a dsm part in italy (especially engine parts) is extremely difficult... like for you to find stock BMW parts...

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

I just did this with a set of aftermarket evo 8 cams. They are skunk2 264in\272ex cams. I however unlike everyone else didn't use the 1g style cam sensor. I set it up with the 95 style cam sensor thats behind the cams gears. Used the stock cam gears and timing plate. Also used the evo 8 intake cam as the intake cam and exhaust cam as the exhaust cam. Vids of first and second startup and vid of it running after driving it for a while after readjusting the timing plate set correct the injector timing.
2g dsm running skunk2 264/272 evo 8 cams - YouTube
2g dsm skunk2 evo 8 cams 2nd start - YouTube

And this is it starting up and running after I adjusted the timing plate to get the injector timing where it should be.
95 gst with skunk2 evo 8 cams - YouTube

post a few pix soon.

here are some pix

To make evo8 cams work keeping the intake cam as intake cam and exhaust cam and use the 95+96 style cam sensor is pretty simple.
1st Set the bottom end in time.

Next install cams with the exhaust cam dowel pin facing the front of the car (update May20)almost level with the top of the head. Level it with the head then turn it one tooth clockwise til its on an angle one tooth below the head level.
Like seen in this pic:

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Take notice of how my timing marks are just below the head level. This is how you MUST time your cams. NOTE: WHEN you are setting your intake Cam there should be pressure(from the lobes pressing on a set of springs) trying to rotate it back clockwise.

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Place the intake cam gear in place the dowel pin facing towards the rear of the car with it angle up slightly as seen in the pix.
The front intake lobes should be slightly angle towards the front of the car. Will later post how many teeth to turn the intake cam gear back from the dowel pin being flat with the top of the head facing backwards to the angle it needs to be at. I pretty much just eyeballed my work so will have to get measurements for those who need them later.

lastly take of the timing plate on the back of the intake gear and shave of the location tab. But before you do this place the cam gear with the dowel pin facing straight up as if it was set in time on the stock cam. Mark the top of the timing plate where it faces straight up. Make sure you mark where the location tab was so you can always turn the plate back to its original position if you get confused.

Now place the timing plate back on the cam gear without the screws and place it on the intake cam. Hand screw in the cam gear bolt till it hits the gear. this keep it from moving. Now rotate the timing plate on the back of the cam gear till the mark you made on the timing plate is again facing straight up.
now take the screws that bolt the plate to the cam gear and (I used a paint marker) put paint on the end of the screws and screw them in the cam gear from the front till they hit the timing plate. Then remove the gear and take the timing plate of and you should see the paint marks that the screws made. Drill holes in those marks these will be the neew screw holes for the timing plate.

In my first and second video this is how it was done and how it ran just like that. Obviously you can see how rough it is running as the injector timing is off but is very close. In the third video I have taken the timing plate back off and slotted those holes to allow me to rotate the timing plate alil further to change the injector timing and there you have it running good and smooth. Evo 8 skunk2 264in\272ex cams running in a 2g dsm 7 bolt engine with 95+96 style cam sensor.

 

[97gst_spyder]

You are the mother####ing man! ^^

Really, no joke. I might be installing them this week now!

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Here is some more pix to help out in timing the cams. Timing the intake cam find the original mark and go counterclockwise 8 1/2 teeth which should set you in a dip.
Timing the exhaust cam is alil different. There are two timing marks on the stock exhaust gear for those who don't know. Find the one on the tooth not in the dip. Or just put your stock engine in time (align all the timing marks) and at this point the timing marks should be facing directly at each other.
Now on the exhaust gear timing Mark walk counterclockwise 13 teeth which should put you on a tooth not in a dip.

There you have your new timing marks for your evo cams.

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Also a few pix of what I did to my timing plate. Update. The starting problem I have been having is due to a bad cam sensor. I accidentally broke mine removing my cams and had to buy a new one. The new cam sensor has gone bad. This is why I am having starting problems. So as this swap stands for cars with the 95+96 style cam sensor if you follow what I did as I explained it, this swap will work without any problems. I will be swapping sensors today hopefully and will report back with a perfectly running dsm again.

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[delta448]

Nice job. Are you planning on getting adjustable cam sprockets and degreeing them in? That might help your starting issue.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Well I was gonna be trading my evo 8 engine for a Gsc springs and retainers s2 cams and aem gears which would have meant I wouldn't need to do this but it went south. But not cam timing that is the problem I don't think. I'm pretty sure its the cam sensor timing plate that got off a bit. But yes I do plan on getting a set of gears soon as pay of some debt.

 

[hotrodssnova]

That was one hell of a read. I'm going to do the same thing. I have the time and its not all that hard.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

That was one hell of a read. I'm going to do the same thing. I have the time and its not all that hard.

Now It really isn't that hard at all. Soon as everything is great I plan on making a how to article. It does work I know this. I just wish I didn't break my cam sensor removing the stock cams. Since the new one went out and caused me really bad starting problems. I changed it and put everything back just like it was and now its running -2 psi at idle and a very rough idle at that. Thinking I may have gotten a tooth off somewhere so going back through everything right now. Keeping posted on everything I do.