Evo VIII Cams in DSM? [Merged 5-9] 8 cam

[acidxrain]

My friend is upgrading the cams on his evo VIII so he'll be getting rid of the stockers. Would the stock evo cams be a good upgrade for my car (97 gsx)?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

On a side note, can the EVO CAS be utilized? What are the chances of getting this to work with a 2g CAS?

 

[xi Talon ix]

On a side note, can the EVO CAS be utilized? What are the chances of getting this to work with a 2g CAS?

im not sure about the evo CAS. i kinda wish i had one to mess with and see what the differences are. im also not sure about the 2G CAS because i dont have one. if you would send me your CAS im sure i could get it to work. same with anybody else, if they dont feel comfortable doing this mod, you can send me your cam gears and CAS and ill gladly help out a fellow DSMer.

Wow consider me subscribed. I can't wait to see if these are decent. I'm looking at cams and this would be a good alternative on a budget.

deffinately a good mod if your on a budget. thats part of why im doing it too. not everybody can just dish out $300+ on cams. i think $65 for a whole valve train that has been proven, is alot more reasonable.

 

[turboglenn]

Very good info and kudos for taking the time to try this out..by the way is that Kenneth Cole watch? OPnly reason i ask is that i've ownded few and still do..all had the same band

 

[xi Talon ix]

not done yet guys sorry. i ordered a belt tensioner and i recieved the wrong one so i sent it back and should have the right one within the next few days. haha..turboglenn sorry man its a fossil. i was looking at KC watches though but ive had a fossil since ive been like 14 so i wanted to keep it original.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

I know the fidanza cam gears have dowel holes for both the DSM and EVO's. Can anyone confirm if the gears also have both sets of timing marks? It would be pretty cool if the gears were backwords compatible.

 

[cbrfrenzie]

My Fidanza cam gears only have one set of timing marks.

 

[Rob10_99]

How in the hell are the cam journal diameters the same? The engies must have thought of us when designing it!
Have you mic'd the journals on both cams? they could be off and you couldn't tell by installing,
Do they turn by hand with no rockers and well lubed?(when torqued)

 

[Defiant]

I thought Evo motors ran backward from ours.

 

[xi Talon ix]

i read on another forum that someone had tried to put these cams in a DSM and he took measurements of the cam journals. he said that they were right on with the DSM journals. i cant verify that they are correct, im just going by what someone else said and crossing my fingers. i have put the cams in and torqued them down and they spin just as free as the stock cams did so im pretty sure the journals are the right size.

 

[Travi2506]

I thought Evo motors ran backward from ours.

That's what I'm told as well. I asked about running evo internals, and was told to stay away from that because they rotate backwards?

 

[Gamble97]

Doesn't someone make a cam that gives the evo like 80hp, you should try that and get back to us. Now that would be an awesome upgrade.

 

[xi Talon ix]

Doesn't someone make a cam that gives the evo like 80hp, you should try that and get back to us. Now that would be an awesome upgrade.

well if you get the cams i will glady put them in my car and test them. as for the engine rotating the opposite direction, thats false. the engine is just rotated 180* from the way ours sit. if the motor would be rotated that 180*, then the rotation would be the same as our 4G63.

 

[Defiant]

i read on another forum that someone had tried to put these cams in a DSM and he took measurements of the cam journals. he said that they were right on with the DSM journals. i cant verify that they are correct, im just going by what someone else said and crossing my fingers. i have put the cams in and torqued them down and they spin just as free as the stock cams did so im pretty sure the journals are the right size.

It's not a matter of whether they'll bolt down into the cam bearings. It's that the motor runs backward from a DSM engine, and that cam lobes are not symmetrical. They have ramps ground into both ends of the lift profile, which are also not symmetrical. One is to load the hydraulic lifters and an acceleration ramp, and the other is a deceleration ramp to control both the speed at which the valve closes on its seat and to prevent valve float.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bol...erged-11-7-cam-cams-shaft-shafts-8-eight.html

 

[xi Talon ix]

heres a quote from a member of a different forum...

"I did a quick sketch of the way cams are positioned and which direction they rotate in an EVO motor, and then what the difference would be if they were swapped to a DSM. From what I can tell, if you were to switch the intake and exhaust cam (use the EVO intake in the DSM exhast position) then the cams would rotate in their original orientation. Any concern about ramp angles would be moot. This would require either some kind of CAS modification, or switching plug wires and injector clips around to make the timing work properly (bad idea in my opinion.)

If you use the EVO intake cam in the intake position in the DSM motor then the cams would rotate opposite of their original orientation. You would then cut a new slot in the intake cam to work with the DSM CAS and no other mods or swapping should be necessary.

So are the ramp angles going to be a problem in the second senario? Personally I highly doubt it. The EVO cams are stock street car cams. They may be more aggressive than DSM cams, but they are nothing like FP3x's or HKS 272's. The EVO doesn't open its valves with a gentle ramp angle then allow them to slam shut with a steep drop. That would put just as much stress on the valvetrain as having a very steep opening ramp angle. People run aftermarket cams (that I'm sure have steeper ramp angles then the EVO cams) with stock valvetrain all the time and it doesn't destroy anything. I have faith that the stock valvetrain in our cars can more then handle the angles of the EVO cams."

 

[gixxerdrew]

for the ignition timing, couldn't you just invert the CAS trigger disk and retain the key?

I was also told the motor rotated the wrong direction.

 

[xi Talon ix]

yea thats what i did to the disc in the CAS. i turned it 90* to about how it would be with the Evo cams.

 

[Defiant]

I don't know why I keep trying. Swapping the cams from intake to exhaust will do nothing for the fact that they run opposite in rotation to what they're ground to run.

If this worked, wouldn't you expect there'd be as many write-ups for it as there are for 1G BOVs on 2Gs?

 

[xi Talon ix]

no their woundt be as many write-ups becuase most people care about their motor and wouldnt want to take the chance of ruining it. i could care less because im having a shortblock built as we type.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

It's clearly an understatement to say that there is likely some confusion with regards to whether the evo engine rotates reverse to ours or it rotates the same direction and the engine is just flipped 180 or[/I ]its both flipped 180 and rotating opposite to a DSM.

Where is everyone getting their information?

 

[delta448]

Seeing as how the block is basically the same, I would expect that the crankshaft rotates the same way inside the block as ours does (clockwise when looking at it from the timing belt side). Since the engine is flipped 180, the crank in the evo likely rotates opposite of ours with respect to the overall vehicle.
However, since the head is like looking at a mirror image of ours with the cam gears on the opposite side, and the exhaust and intake on the same side (or vise versa), the cams likely rotate opposite of ours with respect to the crank. Whether the ramp rates will affect the valvetrain, I have no idea, but I believe Defiant is right in that the accel./decel. rates are different and may cause issues.

 

[Sam@RRE]

EVO motors spin clockwise, the same way DSM 4g63T turn. The engine was turned around 180* and the head was flip flopped so the intake is now the exhaust and exhaust is now the intake side to to clarify things. I still don't see the point of doing this, when a decent set of cams is alot easier, and proven time and time again vs. EVO cams that seem more work than its worth to see minimal to no real gains at all.

 

[BigSorn]

its not going to be a crazy go fast mod, im just doing it because im 17 and most people are older than me and work on cars and they say it cant be done. pretty much "just to say i did it" mod. although the cams should give a little more power, dont get me wrong but its not going to be like hks 272's. they are 2.2 lbs off your valve train though.

just thought I'd point that out again...

 

[xi Talon ix]

thanks man. i know most people think its a worthless mod but like it says above, its just a mod to say i did it.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

I am very interested to see if this works out. Please be sure to post the results good or bad when you're finished. If it works, more power to you. If it doesnt, at least now we will have solid evidence.

 

[xi Talon ix]

sorry for the hold-up guys. i took my head to the machine shop to get a 3 angle valve job done and im sure most of you know how slow machine shops are.