Evo 4-6 4G63T Rebuild?

[EV0WANNAB3]

I'm brand new to the world of 4Gs, let alone Mitsubishi. I'm trying to get a 4-door AWD car to have a ton of fun in, is capable for taking to places that are snowy and icy (for snowboarding trips), and take off roading for camping and other outdoor activities.

My friends pointed me towards the Evo line. I was gonna shoot for a 7, but they're uglier stock than a 6, so imma shoot for an Evo 4-6. I'm interested in this line ONLY if I rebuild the engine and make it "brand new", as well as change any major moving parts like suspension, wheel bearings, joints/tie rods, etc.

For the engine rebuild, what parts should I do aftermarket brands like HKS or something, and what brands should I use for what parts? Also, if I go OEM, what's the absolute MOST I can get out of that OEM part? as I wanna boost my future/dream Evo to 500hp and it be able to withstand max speed for up to 30s and walk away without issues.

Lastly, if I do boost the engine to 500hp, will the transmission have to get changed/upgraded, as well as the drivetrain? If so, should I go re-man for either, or aftermarket brand, and if not, where should I go to get "new" parts for both?

 

[steve]

How much money do you have set aside for this project?

 

[curt-s]

Are you doing the work or paying for a shop to do assembly? Have you had a modified vehicle before and are able to keep up with what inevitably happens when forcing 125hp out of each cylinder?
Are you aware that parts availability for that era of Evo?

 

[EV0WANNAB3]

How much money do you have set aside for this project?

However much it takes to get it to 500 hp. I got time, and nobody but me, so money isn't too big of an issue, unless the total cost ends up above 50k

Are you doing the work or paying for a shop to do assembly? Have you had a modified vehicle before and are able to keep up with what inevitably happens when forcing 125hp out of each cylinder?
Are you aware that parts availability for that era of Evo?

I'd be paying a shop to do the rebuild, as they'd be better equipped than I am.

I haven't gone full engine rebuild with internals or even different turbos or an intercooler. What happens when you get 125hp from each cylinder? The most I have in my car right now is 276 as a 6 cylinder, so idk what you're taking about.

And yes, I've looked into parts availability, hence why I'm asking about going OEM or aftermarket for the rebuild, or a combo of the 2, and what aftermarket brands would be best?

 

[curt-s]

Whilst the 4g platform has been proven capable of 500, stuff starts breaking much faster at that rate. 276 over 6 cyl is under 50/cyl which is what the (DSM) 4g63t produces from factory and the early evos a bit more. Now you're almost tripling that.

When you start factoring in a platform of even more rarity than the DSM, you just need to be prepared for what that means: A lot of hunting for parts and a lot of self study/investigation.

Browse the supporting vendor sites here, make inquiries. Get to know what motor and drivetrain you'd end up with, as you're the only one who can make your build list. There's a bunch of ways to get to 500hp, some riskier than others.

 

[steve]

There's a bunch of ways to get to 500hp, some riskier than others.

And few suited for a 2L 4 cylinder road car in the mountains.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Where did the 500hp goal come from?

Have you ever owned a car of that magnitude before?

If the answer is "I just came up with that" and "no", then you are in a situation where you "dont know what you dont know" and you might want to think about hitting 350hp first (because these light ass cars scream at just 350hp) and then move up to 500hp if you still want more. Better to cautious at 350 and know that you want more, than to start at 500hp, liking it, but not happy about shit breaking like @curt-s is saying. Especially if youre gonna have to rely on a shop to do the work. Because he knows... and the rest of us know... but you might not know.

 

[EV0WANNAB3]

Whilst the 4g platform has been proven capable of 500, stuff starts breaking much faster at that rate. 276 over 6 cyl is under 50/cyl which is what the (DSM) 4g63t produces from factory and the early evos a bit more. Now you're almost tripling that.

When you start factoring in a platform of even more rarity than the DSM, you just need to be prepared for what that means: A lot of hunting for parts and a lot of self study/investigation.

Browse the supporting vendor sites here, make inquiries. Get to know what motor and drivetrain you'd end up with, as you're the only one who can make your build list. There's a bunch of ways to get to 500hp, some riskier than others.

So I'm gathering that I should go aftermarket, and get internals from someone like HKS or blitz. Albeit each piston would still run 125 hp, but that number isn't special. There are many cars out there that push WAY more outta the engine, and don't break down as often as you're making it seem like this engine will. Why? Because they didn't go OEM

Where did the 500hp goal come from?

Have you ever owned a car of that magnitude before?

If the answer is "I just came up with that" and "no", then you are in a situation where you "dont know what you dont know" and you might want to think about hitting 350hp first (because these light ass cars scream at just 350hp) and then move up to 500hp if you still want more. Better to cautious at 350 and know that you want more, than to start at 500hp, liking it, but not happy about shit breaking like @curt-s is saying. Especially if youre gonna have to rely on a shop to do the work. Because he knows... and the rest of us know... but you might not know.

500 because I expect my car to be weighed down, and I still want to be able to expect it to perform decently despite having several hundred pounds of extra weight. And no, I have never owned a car with 500hp, but I have tried 350, and its fun, but nothing impressive, unless the car was able to be lighter, lower, and better equipped.

An aftermarket company could also add a few cc to the engine with aftermarket blocks, and up the bore or stroke of the pistons. It all depends on WHO, and that was my original question. If I want 500, WHO should I go with? OEM? HKS or Apexi? Blitz, or someone else?

If you think the engine would still break a lot despite being 100% aftermarket, then I'll think about doing 400, but I'm def not going lower than 400. 100 per piston is nothing to laugh at, but less is unless you drive a car like it's a highway speedster. I want my car to respond fast, go fast, and start moving fast, regardless of how much weight is added.

 

[DSMPT]

If you would decide to go with an EVO 4, if possible, make sure if the block has been replaced with a revised split thrust block or not. The EVO 4 is the one that the crankwalk occurs most.
As for the engine internal parts, you would have a hard time to source stock parts for those in the States. But you can source aftermarket parts easily since they are compatible with DSM and EVO 8/9 parts

 

[curt-s]

So I'm gathering that I should go aftermarket, and get internals from someone like HKS or blitz. Albeit each piston would still run 125 hp, but that number isn't special. There are many cars out there that push WAY more outta the engine, and don't break down as often as you're making it seem like this engine will. Why? Because they didn't go OEM

Is Blitz still a thing? I thought they disappeared over a decade ago.
HKS is.. fine. But that's just a few parts here and there. By the time you do a 500hp build you'll likely have at least half a dozen manufacturers.

You're missing a key variable here: age.

The Evo 6 is nearing 25 years of age. If it was a woman, Leonardo DiCaprio would have dumped her four years ago.

What's left is generally beaten on pretty hard and unless you have the coin for a brand new drivetrain, 500 will tax it. At 500, your margin for misshifts, knock, and speed at which peak torque comes on is much less than at 300 and the margin gets slimmer as you go higher. Most parts, unless you replace every. Single. One. Were designed with a fair bit less torque.

Few (non supercar) vehicles actually push 125 out of each cylinder off the showroom floor. That's equivalent to 1000hp 8 cylinder and not even the Hellcat comes with that stock. Can do it, sure. But it's built for it using more modern methods.

Modded cars, they've had work done and it's not cheap. Many important parts for DSM and Evos are slim pickings, especially transmissions where you don't have seven manufacturers producing replacement pieces.

Not saying it's not possible, plenty have done it, just saying if you're not aware of what 500 on one of these engines looks and feels like, it feels like shattered third gears.
Also, the higher the HP, the more your powerband will shift to the right without the displacement.

That being said, I'm building my engine for 500 but my trans.. not even close.

"An aftermarket company could also add a few cc to the engine with aftermarket blocks, and up the bore or stroke of the pistons." Aftermarket blocks? Sure. Boostin's billet block. That's it. If that's in your price range you might as well just get them to construct your entire engine. But not for an Evo.

The biggest 4g-like bore is the g4cs block at 86.5mm which is 1.5mm larger than a 4g63. But not for an Evo. Stroke is dependent on rods and crankshaft and,adding pistons to the mix, modifies displacement and compression ratio.

You're limited to what is swappable into an Evo chassis. Evo 4 and up moved the engine over to the other side but the exhaust still faces forward, so the engine actually rotates in the opposite direction. And it remains a 7 bolt.

All we're saying is the 500 number is a common "goal that sounds big but not too big" amongst the uninitiated but the reality is it takes a lot to get there and remain reliable. Asking what brands to go with isn't the way to do it. Most brands make parts that can get you there and there's no magic ticket. You'll see a combination of everything including OEM. What one needs to do is sit down and read everything they can here and perhaps the Evo forum(s) to get an understanding of what it will take. Charging head first with a pocket full of cash and no idea how the pieces fit together is a sure fire way to be left with a lot less cash and a car you have no idea how to live with.

But here's an example:
Stock crankshaft or Eagle
Any brand piston is about the same at that power level. Pick your compression ratio based on boost level and fuel type
H beam or I beam rod
Beehive or aftermarket spring, they're all basically the same
Titanium retainers reduce mass
Bigger turbo, pick one that will work for the power goal but not be too big as lag isn't fun
Larger injectors, FIC, PTE, whatever
Larger intercooler, whatever will fit
Camshafts, GSC HKS.. again, choose your powerband

Most reputable brands out there can. Do it. Takes a bit of reading but what works for DSM generally works for Evo, but availability for that 7 bolt platform is another question


Time for bed.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Keep in mind throwing parts at something doesn’t automatically make it more reliable or better, break that mindset before you even start. I’m assuming you’re not in the US but even so while companies like HKS or Tomei (like someone mentioned I didn’t even know Blitz was still around) offer some good products you won’t see those names often in this community as there’s other stuff that’s cheaper and more available that’s just as good if not better. Best advice I can give is start small, whenever someone buys in and right off the rip says “I want 500 horsepower reliably” and throws the whole catalog of top shelf shit at it, 9 times out of 10 it results in disappointment and the car being sold and/or parted out because the user didn’t know how to handle a car of that caliber and repeatedly breaks high dollar stuff until they have enough because they didn’t start with a more reliable 300 horsepower bolt on car that’s easier to learn with, I know that’s not what you want to hear but if you go through with it with your current mindset that’s EXACTLY what’s going to happen.

To put it into perspective the stock bottom end quarter mile ET and mph was set by the current holder on a stock 6 bolt bottom end with about 230k miles on the original internals, and that engine took hit after hit for years before becoming an issue, to be replaced by another stock one that still had 150k+ on it and went on to run even faster. Not because he threw top shelf shit at it and that was that, but because he worked his way up and became super familiar with the platform, and of course tuning was key over all as it is in any situation. Another case I know of personally is a fwd auto car that belongs to a buddy of mine, car was daily driven from April when the salts off the roads until November when they put salt down for the first time and went 10.90’s on a 68hta v1 (true stock appearing bolt on turbo) while being his main transportation that part of the year, not even making 400 at the wheels but that seat time and knowing the platform netted him being quicker than a lot of local guys making 5-600 all while being a full interior daily driven street car.

The point is research what’s good and what isn’t and come up with a more realistic goal to start with if that’s what you want. Otherwise don’t waste your time and money as you will break it not knowing what you’re doing and you will be disappointed and lose your ass on it and you’ll be looking to sell it off or part it out and junk whatever’s left over just like the rest that go in with this mindset. Another thing to consider is transmissions are not cheap, and there’s not much you can do to a synchro trans to help it live and the little bit you can do is costly and most people won’t take on the work because the parts needed to do so are gone and no one ever produced more. Basically the options are have a few spares on hand and plan to blow a stock transmission into orbit once in a while or pay $8k+ for a dog box and kill off a bunch of drivability and even then that’s not insurance, unfortunately the Evo 4-9 crowd doesn’t have a viable automatic transmission option like the dsm/evo1-3/Gvr4/csm group as while it’s not the end all solution stock for stock the automatics hold up better with the right support and time into them, hence why if you spend some time here you’ll notice a lot of folks have swapped automatics into factory manual cars or started with an automatic car to build off of, and you’ll notice a lot of the “fast” guys are running automatic transmission’s. That’s not an “aUtOs ArE bEtTeR!!” rant as I’m a manual guy myself, just a reminder the Evo 4-9 eliminates that option and for some it’s a great option to have.

Start more realistic or piss a bunch of money away for a bunch of frustration and heartache just to move on to something else, as right now if you go through with it at your mindset you have to have 500 horsepower and HKS and Blitz are great and blah blah blah you’re going to fail, no if ands or buts about it and no matter what shop you throw thousands at to build it. If you absolutely have to have 500 horsepower right off the rip don’t waste your time with this platform, go with something with a v8 that has every single part available at all times at the local parts house and online where if you break something you won’t be in a ton of money to fix it and the parts are there at a click of the mouse.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

500 because I expect my car to be weighed down, and I still want to be able to expect it to perform decently despite having several hundred pounds of extra weight. And no, I have never owned a car with 500hp, but I have tried 350, and its fun, but nothing inpressive, unless the car was able to be lighter, lower, and better equipped. An aftermarket company could also add a few cc to the engine with aftermarket blocks, and up the bore or stroke of the pistons. It all depends on WHO, and that was my original question. If I want 500, WHO should I go with? OEM? HKS or Apexi? Blitz, or someone else? If you think the engine would still break a lot sespite being 100% aftermarket, then I'll think about doing 400, but I'm def not going lower than 400. 100 per piston is nothing to laugh at, but less is unless you drive a car like it's a highway speedster. I want my car to respond fast, go fast, and start moving fast, regardless of how much weight is added.

My apologies, I'm not trying to derail your hopes and dreams, just that a lot of people come here with the specific 500 horsepower number (search and you will find probably find 100 threads +) in mind and that trigger immediate questions to see how much research you have done on your own. It is very important that you have the proper knowledge yourself, even if you're going to let a shop handle it. Is the shop familiar with Evos and ECMLink?

The engine is the easy part because whether you go OEM (good for 500-600hp I think) or Aftermarket there are parts available to do a full rebuild and there are so many different combinations out there that asking for a build list isn't the right questions to be asking yet.

When we talk about things breaking, its not the engine we're talking about. You need to check the availability of transmission, axles, drive shaft, intercoolers/piping, exhaust components, clutch/flywheel, etc as many parts have been discontinued or unavailable for our 1g/2g cars in both OEM and Aftermarket. Evos are a lot more supported than DSMs so you MIGHT be fine, but I'm not going to pretend to be an Evo expert.

It would suck to start putting together a list of engine parts, have someone to do the work, put it in the car only to find out 3 months down the line after you've done several AWD launches that the parts needed to rebuild the trans or something are no longer available. That is why it is more logical for you to research and validate what others are telling you, then come back here with a possible build list and let others point out or debate on which parts belong and which don't and give you insight as to why.

 

[curt-s]

If I wanted to do a four door daily driver nowadays with 500, I'd probably do an S3 or another S4.
I'd be broke and divorced, though. I'm already on thin ice with this car as it is money-wise but DSMs have been in my life longer than she has (actively), so it gets a free pass

 

[DSMPT]

I’m assuming you’re not in the US

I though he is in the States but yeah it seems he is in Japan.

This is just my opinion as a DSMer, if it's in Japan and if I were him and the budget is allowing to buy a EVO 4-6 and modify it for 500hp, I would look for a JDM 1g Eclipse GSR-4 or a JDM GVR-4 if 4 door is required. It's AWD and import DSM parts to modify from the States. He can probably make a 500hp AWD 4g63 equipped car with much less money than buying a EVO 4-6.
Basically used JDM Eclipse are in good condition in Japan. Because most of people don't want to modify and keep it as stock power, not like in North America. Almost nobody used it for racing purpose since they could buy GVR4 or early EVOs with the same money. So usually modifications on JDM Eclipse are only for exterior or interior, like replacing steering wheel, rims etc. And most of people don't know mechanic work or don't have space to do at home even they know how to, so they ask Mitsubishi dealer or shops for repair. You can now imagine the condition of them.

Or maybe an EVO 7 Auto or Wagon EVO Auto (I have no idea how much power it can hold as stock though. I just personally want to know how they are). Since even in Japan, used stock manual drivetrain components for EVO 4-9 are getting expensive, and harder and harder to find good ones. But auto EVO drivetrain components are still cheaper than the manual's, because they are not popular in the market. And less possibility for crankwalk.

 

[EV0WANNAB3]

Is Blitz still a thing? I thought they disappeared over a decade ago.
HKS is.. fine. But that's just a few parts here and there. By the time you do a 500hp build you'll likely have at least half a dozen manufacturers.

You're missing a key variable here: age.

The Evo 6 is nearing 25 years of age. If it was a woman, Leonardo DiCaprio would have dumped her four years ago.

What's left is generally beaten on pretty hard and unless you have the coin for a brand new drivetrain, 500 will tax it. At 500, your margin for misshifts, knock, and speed at which peak torque comes on is much less than at 300 and the margin gets slimmer as you go higher. Most parts, unless you replace every. Single. One. Were designed with a fair bit less torque.

Few (non supercar) vehicles actually push 125 out of each cylinder off the showroom floor. That's equivalent to 1000hp 8 cylinder and not even the Hellcat comes with that stock. Can do it, sure. But it's built for it using more modern methods.

Modded cars, they've had work done and it's not cheap. Many important parts for DSM and Evos are slim pickings, especially transmissions where you don't have seven manufacturers producing replacement pieces.

Not saying it's not possible, plenty have done it, just saying if you're not aware of what 500 on one of these engines looks and feels like, it feels like shattered third gears.
Also, the higher the HP, the more your powerband will shift to the right without the displacement.

That being said, I'm building my engine for 500 but my trans.. not even close.

"An aftermarket company could also add a few cc to the engine with aftermarket blocks, and up the bore or stroke of the pistons." Aftermarket blocks? Sure. Boostin's billet block. That's it. If that's in your price range you might as well just get them to construct your entire engine. But not for an Evo.

The biggest 4g-like bore is the g4cs block at 86.5mm which is 1.5mm larger than a 4g63. But not for an Evo. Stroke is dependent on rods and crankshaft and,adding pistons to the mix, modifies displacement and compression ratio.

You're limited to what is swappable into an Evo chassis. Evo 4 and up moved the engine over to the other side but the exhaust still faces forward, so the engine actually rotates in the opposite direction. And it remains a 7 bolt.

All we're saying is the 500 number is a common "goal that sounds big but not too big" amongst the uninitiated but the reality is it takes a lot to get there and remain reliable. Asking what brands to go with isn't the way to do it. Most brands make parts that can get you there and there's no magic ticket. You'll see a combination of everything including OEM. What one needs to do is sit down and read everything they can here and perhaps the Evo forum(s) to get an understanding of what it will take. Charging head first with a pocket full of cash and no idea how the pieces fit together is a sure fire way to be left with a lot less cash and a car you have no idea how to live with.

But here's an example:
Stock crankshaft or Eagle
Any brand piston is about the same at that power level. Pick your compression ratio based on boost level and fuel type
H beam or I beam rod
Beehive or aftermarket spring, they're all basically the same
Titanium retainers reduce mass
Bigger turbo, pick one that will work for the power goal but not be too big as lag isn't fun
Larger injectors, FIC, PTE, whatever
Larger intercooler, whatever will fit
Camshafts, GSC HKS.. again, choose your powerband

Most reputable brands out there can. Do it. Takes a bit of reading but what works for DSM generally works for Evo, but availability for that 7 bolt platform is another question


Time for bed.

Like I said, I'd be fine to start with 400 to get a feel. 300 is fun, but nothing crazy, especially when your car ends up being 700ish+ pounds heavier than what you're normally used to, hence why I'd like more than 350 (despite 50 being a pretty big jump). The power goal is just a number to gauge the car's "fastness" with or without extra weight. 500 was just the number my friend threw out there. I'll def do more reading, but I have been for the past week and can't find much specific info on parts unless I email/call the company. I know I'm limited on engine space, but did not know that the exhuast ports were fwd of the eng. I didn't think about the powerband shift of higher hps, but in terms of parts availability, online has a ton of various engine parts, tho not everything. I planned on buying everything that goes into a 4g as new parts, and getting a shop to pretty much build me a new 4g engine entirely, as I don't plan on selling this car. Moreover, more unique parts like stuff for the tranny and drivetrain are pretty available here in japan. And HKS sells some tranny and clutch parts on their website, but so does a few other brands. Also, yeah, Bltiz is still VERY big in Japan, tho they mostly just make coilovers and air cooling systems (I havent looked too much cuz they are pretty expensive). Long story short, I plan on making the car brand new, with a few exceptions (i.e. certain interior parts, and aero parts if I buy 1 with them).

 

[EV0WANNAB3]

Is Blitz still a thing? I thought they disappeared over a decade ago.
HKS is.. fine. But that's just a few parts here and there. By the time you do a 500hp build you'll likely have at least half a dozen manufacturers.

You're missing a key variable here: age.

The Evo 6 is nearing 25 years of age. If it was a woman, Leonardo DiCaprio would have dumped her four years ago.

What's left is generally beaten on pretty hard and unless you have the coin for a brand new drivetrain, 500 will tax it. At 500, your margin for misshifts, knock, and speed at which peak torque comes on is much less than at 300 and the margin gets slimmer as you go higher. Most parts, unless you replace every. Single. One. Were designed with a fair bit less torque.

Few (non supercar) vehicles actually push 125 out of each cylinder off the showroom floor. That's equivalent to 1000hp 8 cylinder and not even the Hellcat comes with that stock. Can do it, sure. But it's built for it using more modern methods.

Modded cars, they've had work done and it's not cheap. Many important parts for DSM and Evos are slim pickings, especially transmissions where you don't have seven manufacturers producing replacement pieces.

Not saying it's not possible, plenty have done it, just saying if you're not aware of what 500 on one of these engines looks and feels like, it feels like shattered third gears.
Also, the higher the HP, the more your powerband will shift to the right without the displacement.

That being said, I'm building my engine for 500 but my trans.. not even close.

"An aftermarket company could also add a few cc to the engine with aftermarket blocks, and up the bore or stroke of the pistons." Aftermarket blocks? Sure. Boostin's billet block. That's it. If that's in your price range you might as well just get them to construct your entire engine. But not for an Evo.

The biggest 4g-like bore is the g4cs block at 86.5mm which is 1.5mm larger than a 4g63. But not for an Evo. Stroke is dependent on rods and crankshaft and,adding pistons to the mix, modifies displacement and compression ratio.

You're limited to what is swappable into an Evo chassis. Evo 4 and up moved the engine over to the other side but the exhaust still faces forward, so the engine actually rotates in the opposite direction. And it remains a 7 bolt.

All we're saying is the 500 number is a common "goal that sounds big but not too big" amongst the uninitiated but the reality is it takes a lot to get there and remain reliable. Asking what brands to go with isn't the way to do it. Most brands make parts that can get you there and there's no magic ticket. You'll see a combination of everything including OEM. What one needs to do is sit down and read everything they can here and perhaps the Evo forum(s) to get an understanding of what it will take. Charging head first with a pocket full of cash and no idea how the pieces fit together is a sure fire way to be left with a lot less cash and a car you have no idea how to live with.

But here's an example:
Stock crankshaft or Eagle
Any brand piston is about the same at that power level. Pick your compression ratio based on boost level and fuel type
H beam or I beam rod
Beehive or aftermarket spring, they're all basically the same
Titanium retainers reduce mass
Bigger turbo, pick one that will work for the power goal but not be too big as lag isn't fun
Larger injectors, FIC, PTE, whatever
Larger intercooler, whatever will fit
Camshafts, GSC HKS.. again, choose your powerband

Most reputable brands out there can. Do it. Takes a bit of reading but what works for DSM generally works for Evo, but availability for that 7 bolt platform is another question


Time for bed.

Very useful input and information tho, much appreciated. I didn't know the highest anyone's bored the 4g safely and reliably was only 1.5mm more

 

[EV0WANNAB3]

Keep in mind throwing parts at something doesn’t automatically make it more reliable or better, break that mindset before you even start. I’m assuming you’re not in the US but even so while companies like HKS or Tomei (like someone mentioned I didn’t even know Blitz was still around) offer some good products you won’t see those names often in this community as there’s other stuff that’s cheaper and more available that’s just as good if not better. Best advice I can give is start small, whenever someone buys in and right off the rip says “I want 500 horsepower reliably” and throws the whole catalog of top shelf shit at it, 9 times out of 10 it results in disappointment and the car being sold and/or parted out because the user didn’t know how to handle a car of that caliber and repeatedly breaks high dollar stuff until they have enough because they didn’t start with a more reliable 300 horsepower bolt on car that’s easier to learn with, I know that’s not what you want to hear but if you go through with it with your current mindset that’s EXACTLY what’s going to happen.

To put it into perspective the stock bottom end quarter mile ET and mph was set by the current holder on a stock 6 bolt bottom end with about 230k miles on the original internals, and that engine took hit after hit for years before becoming an issue, to be replaced by another stock one that still had 150k+ on it and went on to run even faster. Not because he threw top shelf shit at it and that was that, but because he worked his way up and became super familiar with the platform, and of course tuning was key over all as it is in any situation. Another case I know of personally is a fwd auto car that belongs to a buddy of mine, car was daily driven from April when the salts off the roads until November when they put salt down for the first time and went 10.90’s on a 68hta v1 (true stock appearing bolt on turbo) while being his main transportation that part of the year, not even making 400 at the wheels but that seat time and knowing the platform netted him being quicker than a lot of local guys making 5-600 all while being a full interior daily driven street car.

The point is research what’s good and what isn’t and come up with a more realistic goal to start with if that’s what you want. Otherwise don’t waste your time and money as you will break it not knowing what you’re doing and you will be disappointed and lose your ass on it and you’ll be looking to sell it off or part it out and junk whatever’s left over just like the rest that go in with this mindset. Another thing to consider is transmissions are not cheap, and there’s not much you can do to a synchro trans to help it live and the little bit you can do is costly and most people won’t take on the work because the parts needed to do so are gone and no one ever produced more. Basically the options are have a few spares on hand and plan to blow a stock transmission into orbit once in a while or pay $8k+ for a dog box and kill off a bunch of drivability and even then that’s not insurance, unfortunately the Evo 4-9 crowd doesn’t have a viable automatic transmission option like the dsm/evo1-3/Gvr4/csm group as while it’s not the end all solution stock for stock the automatics hold up better with the right support and time into them, hence why if you spend some time here you’ll notice a lot of folks have swapped automatics into factory manual cars or started with an automatic car to build off of, and you’ll notice a lot of the “fast” guys are running automatic transmission’s. That’s not an “aUtOs ArE bEtTeR!!” rant as I’m a manual guy myself, just a reminder the Evo 4-9 eliminates that option and for some it’s a great option to have.

Start more realistic or piss a bunch of money away for a bunch of frustration and heartache just to move on to something else, as right now if you go through with it at your mindset you have to have 500 horsepower and HKS and Blitz are great and blah blah blah you’re going to fail, no if ands or buts about it and no matter what shop you throw thousands at to build it. If you absolutely have to have 500 horsepower right off the rip don’t waste your time with this platform, go with something with a v8 that has every single part available at all times at the local parts house and online where if you break something you won’t be in a ton of money to fix it and the parts are there at a click of the mouse.

Like I said in an earlier post, I'm not hung up over 500hp, but I don't want less than 400. 500 was just a number my friend threw out there, so I figured I'd ask about it. 400 because I expect to drive the car with just myself inside (and maybe some extra weight like seats removed every now and then), get used to that, then go on a snowboarding trip with friends or fam, add 700+ weight, subconciously expect the car to respond the same, and feel disappointed at how slow and sluggish the car is.

My mindset isn't "throw top shelf brands at it", it's: what's more useful and available to get the car to my power goal? If I want 400hp, and will basically make a whole new 4g63t, what parts should I get from which places? My goal isn't a dragster either, but a fun street-offroading combo car that is usable for trips with almost 50% more weight, and be crazy fun on a track (there's a track near my fam I'd like to try it out on at least once ) or street/freeway. Launching is fun, but I'd prefer a car that can hold speed through a turn. And I don't really care about auto v manual (manuals are more fun, but man they can suck when coming from a lot of standstills) just as long as the auto isn't 4 stupid giant gears like the ones on my aristo (1st gear is so rough). I'd be ok with an auto, but I hear for off roading something along the lines of a manual are better/fun, especially in the snow.

Also, I never could figure it out, what does DSM/CSM mean? I googled it and google said DSM is Diamond-Star Motors, and CSM being the company that owns dodge, chrysler, etc.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

I though he is in the States but yeah it seems he is in Japan.

This is just my opinion as a DSMer, if it's in Japan and if I were him and the budget is allowing to buy a EVO 4-6 and modify it for 500hp, I would look for a JDM 1g Eclipse GSR-4 or a JDM GVR-4 if 4 door is required. It's AWD and import DSM parts to modify from the States. He can probably make a 500hp AWD 4g63 equipped car with much less money than buying a EVO 4-6.
Basically used JDM Eclipse are in good condition in Japan. Because most of people don't want to modify and keep it as stock power, not like in North America. Almost nobody used it for racing purpose since they could buy GVR4 or early EVOs with the same money. So usually modifications on JDM Eclipse are only for exterior or interior, like replacing steering wheel, rims etc. And most of people don't know mechanic work or don't have space to do at home even they know how to, so they ask Mitsubishi dealer or shops for repair. You can now imagine the condition of them.

Or maybe an EVO 7 Auto or Wagon EVO Auto (I have no idea how much power it can hold as stock though. I just personally want to know how they are). Since even in Japan, used stock manual drivetrain components for EVO 4-9 are getting expensive, and harder and harder to find good ones. But auto EVO drivetrain components are still cheaper than the manual's, because they are not popular in the market. And less possibility for crankwalk.

David Buschur tried them a few years back when he got on an auto kick with the earlier 4g powered cars (around the time they did the white 1g auto car). I stopped out there to get something and the topic of automatics got brought up and he had said he pulled a few strings to get his hands on them and then had no luck with them. They hold the stock power and torque of the Evo 7 GTA no problem it seems but he said they’re far from overbuilt from the assembly line like the earlier DSM automatic transmission’s were and they quickly smoked them and gave up on the idea. Would’ve been a game changer for the Evo 8 and 9’s, would’ve had drag guys importing them left and right but unfortunately they’re not what the DSM transmissions were and it seems the upgrade parts aren’t really out there. Trust me, I had the same curiousity myself even though I can’t afford and 8 or 9.

 

[DSMPT]

David Buschur tried them a few years back when he got on an auto kick with the earlier 4g powered cars (around the time they did the white 1g auto car). I stopped out there to get something and the topic of automatics got brought up and he had said he pulled a few strings to get his hands on them and then had no luck with them. They hold the stock power and torque of the Evo 7 GTA no problem it seems but he said they’re far from overbuilt from the assembly line like the earlier DSM automatic transmission’s were and they quickly smoked them and gave up on the idea. Would’ve been a game changer for the Evo 8 and 9’s, would’ve had drag guys importing them left and right but unfortunately they’re not what the DSM transmissions were and it seems the upgrade parts aren’t really out there. Trust me, I had the same curiousity myself even though I can’t afford and 8 or 9.

Yeah I have seen his post and some videos. I think it was English Racing. But what I was hoping is if more people get into it, someone may find out something new and start to make parts to improve. In a few years people in the States will be able to import the auto EVO 7. I believe someone would try.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Like I said in an earlier post, I'm not hung up over 500hp, but I don't want less than 400. 500 was just a number my friend threw out there, so I figured I'd ask about it. 400 because I expect to drive the car with just myself inside (and maybe some extra weight like seats removed every now and then), get used to that, then go on a snowboarding trip with friends or fam, add 700+ weight, subconciously expect the car to respond the same, and feel disappointed at how slow and sluggish the car is.

My mindset isn't "throw top shelf brands at it", it's: what's more useful and available to get the car to my power goal? If I want 400hp, and will basically make a whole new 4g63t, what parts should I get from which places? My goal isn't a dragster either, but a fun street-offroading combo car that is usable for trips with almost 50% more weight, and be crazy fun on a track (there's a track near my fam I'd like to try it out on at least once ) or street/freeway. Launching is fun, but I'd prefer a car that can hold speed through a turn. And I don't really care about auto v manual (manuals are more fun, but man they can suck when coming from a lot of standstills) just as long as the auto isn't 4 stupid giant gears like the ones on my aristo (1st gear is so rough). I'd be ok with an auto, but I hear for off roading something along the lines of a manual are better/fun, especially in the snow.

Also, I never could figure it out, what does DSM/CSM mean? I googled it and google said DSM is Diamond-Star Motors, and CSM being the company that owns dodge, chrysler, etc.

Starting at the 300ish range can be done with the fuel system upgrades and such to reach 400 but simply turn it up and make small changes. Fuel availability is a factor as well, if you have e85 available it can go a lot further. Honestly if it was me, if the engine is healthy without digging into the internals I wouldn’t throw any money at internals yet because again tuning is key, what’s in there stock is going to hold 300-400 safely if the tune is in good order.

To put it into perspective I was able to squeeze out 420 at the wheels at 430 wheel torque on an Evo 3 16g spiking 28psi on e85, that was on a 6 bolt non turbo 4g63 long block that was stock with the exception of some used ARP head studs found in a solo cup in my buddy’s garage and BC 272 cams. That engine lived a very happy life at multiple seasons over 400 at the wheels beating the absolute ever living crap out of it, died due to my own doing, pistons and rods are still in great condition. Never tuned that particular 16g set up on pump gas but I would imagine right around 300 would’ve been the tap out on 93 octane, however the season before that it was “tuned” on an SAFC (switched to ECMLink the following year) with stock non turbo cams and the whole stock long block and made 284 at the wheels on 22psi on a low reading mustang dyno, still a bit rich and had more left in it but clutch issues stopped us as taking any more fuel out or turning the boost up the clutch would just slip.

Point I’m trying to make is those are pretty typical numbers for a 16g and flow on the Evo 4-9 16g turbo doesn’t vary much from its earlier counterpart, meaning you could pretty reliably make 300ish on pump gas and 400ish on e85 (if available) with just some bolt-ons and supporting mods and maybe some cams and not tear into the internals until you’re ready to hit that point.

As far as tuning goes, I seen ECMLink mentioned above, however it would not be the correct selection for your application. I’m not knocking ECMLink by any means, it’s a great system run by some great DSM minded guys with a lot of support, however an engine management system is only as good as the tuner who’s available to work with it. I clarify this as tons of DSM guys tend to rip my head off when I say it even though I say nothing negative about the system “EcMlInK iS wHaT i HaVe So ItS tHe BeSt!!”, and while earlier on it was commonly used in later Evo’s utilizing a DSM EPROM ECU or earlier Evo EPROM ECU, many have since unlocked the capabilities of the stock Evo 7-9 ECU with ECUFlash and it’s just as a capable as ECMLink. I do believe even earlier Evo ECU’s are flashable but have no hands on with this and I do know the later 7-8 ECU is easily adapted to the 4-6.

I say this because here in the US we’ve hit an era where there’s far more good tuners well versed in ECUFlash opposed to ECMlink so depending where in the country you’re at finding a tuner to work with it can be tough, overseas ECMLink is almost unheard of so it’d be a very long shot to find a tuner that works with it when ECUFlash is pretty commonly used by tuners globally. Yes, before someone says it I get that ECMLink is more user friendly which is great for the DIY’er that’s new to tuning, but in most situations if you aren’t tuning it yourself or trying to learn the user friendliness of it is completely irrelevant. A good tuner can get a car to run just as well and make the same power with a stock Evo 8 ECU using ECUFlash and Evoscan as they could with ECMLink, and anyone who thinks otherwise and thinks a car is going to run better and make better power or be safer because it’s on ECMLink doesn’t have a true grasp of how engine management works. Not to mention, in today's age for what it costs to use ECMLink you’d be in at a fraction of the cost using a flashable stock ECU on the platform we’re discussing to achieve the same result, shoot for what it would cost to run ECMLink in an Evo 4-8, especially overseas, you could spend a little more and run a Link g4x standalone that plugs right in and has more capabilities than either of the other options discussed.

To answer your question on what a “CSM” is, it’s the abbreviation given to the community for the Dodge Colt/Eagle Summit/Mitsubishi Mirage. Given their similarities to the Evo 1-3 chassis and the easiness of swapping in a 4g63 into them using readily available parts from DSM’s they’ve gained a cult following here and “CSM” is the quick reference to that platform here.

 

[DSMPT]

My goal isn't a dragster either,

That's what I though especially if you are in Japan.

my aristo

I had the 1st gen Aristo in my late teens back in the early/mid 90s. I had a lot of fun with the twin turbo 2jz. Took it for a spin and having fun with friends every weekend Good old days! Sorry off topic though.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Don’t mind me, some of us love to get Hiroshi San off topic because of the plethora of good information and stories we get!

However, to elaborate the whole ECMLink vs stock Evo ECU comparison I made mention of, I live about 20 minutes East of Buschur Racing here in Ohio, with them having a lot of 4g63 firsts here in the US and globally we probably have the biggest local following of DSM enthusiasts in the world even though few of us actually use their services for anything (and that’s no offense to David Buschur, they’ve just moved on to other platforms). With that being said we have several dyno shops in the area and tuners such as Jp Riccio right up the street from me and some other great shops and tuners in the state who work well with ECMLink, however as long as he’s been in the game and others will tell you who’ve seen it that hell hath no fury like uncle Buschur’s scorn for ECMLink! Call him up and ask him to tune an ECMLink car he’ll tell you to go f*ck yourself in a kinda nice way and to put the car on an Evo ECU or AEM then he’ll talk.

The point is I know it’s hard in some areas to find someone to work with it, and I know in Australia and New Zealand it picked up steam in Evo’s for a while but it seems they’ve mostly moved on from it there too. Moral of the story is I’m not sure what country you’re in but with that being said tuning will be key to what you’re trying to achieve so make sure you know what your options are!

 

[EV0WANNAB3]

Don’t mind me, some of us love to get Hiroshi San off topic because of the plethora of good information and stories we get!

However, to elaborate the whole ECMLink vs stock Evo ECU comparison I made mention of, I live about 20 minutes East of Buschur Racing here in Ohio, with them having a lot of 4g63 firsts here in the US and globally we probably have the biggest local following of DSM enthusiasts in the world even though few of us actually use their services for anything (and that’s no offense to David Buschur, they’ve just moved on to other platforms). With that being said we have several dyno shops in the area and tuners such as Jp Riccio right up the street from me and some other great shops and tuners in the state who work well with ECMLink, however as long as he’s been in the game and others will tell you who’ve seen it that hell hath no fury like uncle Buschur’s scorn for ECMLink! Call him up and ask him to tune an ECMLink car he’ll tell you to go f*ck yourself in a kinda nice way and to put the car on an Evo ECU or AEM then he’ll talk.

The point is I know it’s hard in some areas to find someone to work with it, and I know in Australia and New Zealand it picked up steam in Evo’s for a while but it seems they’ve mostly moved on from it there too. Moral of the story is I’m not sure what country you’re in but with that being said tuning will be key to what you’re trying to achieve so make sure you know what your options are!

Thanks, I really appreciate this. I was thinking of AEM for the ECU anyways, as that's what I was gonna do to my Aristo if I sold it, but I'll also look into the link as well. It would seem Trust sells some links on their website.

I'm in Tokyo, if that helps with availability for tuners and such. There's quite a few big named shops near me like FNATZ, HKS Factory, and C2 Project, etc. I'll also look into whether any shop does ECU flashes and might try to swap in an Evo 8 ECU if that ends up being cheaper and more available.

It seems I'll go stock with internals and the block, but I'm thinking I should swap in a new intercooler, air intake system, oil cooler, put in a boost controller, the fuel pump, oil pump, brake lines and fluid, fuel injectors, and exhaust system.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

That’s the right track! As far as the oil pump goes in these engines there aren’t really any upgraded ones and aftermarket ones are questionable, the rule of thumb for them has always been if it’s broke don’t fix it, however there are ways to inspect and measure the clearances for wear. @DSMPT is from Japan originally as well, I don’t know how familiar he is with the Tokyo area but he might be able to point you in the right direction!

 

[DSMPT]

Thanks, I really appreciate this. I was thinking of AEM for the ECU anyways, as that's what I was gonna do to my Aristo if I sold it, but I'll also look into the link as well. It would seem Trust sells some links on their website.

I'm in Tokyo, if that helps with availability for tuners and such. There's quite a few big named shops near me like FNATZ, HKS Factory, and C2 Project, etc. I'll also look into whether any shop does ECU flashes and might try to swap in an Evo 8 ECU if that ends up being cheaper and more available.

It seems I'll go stock with internals and the block, but I'm thinking I should swap in a new intercooler, air intake system, oil cooler, put in a boost controller, the fuel pump, oil pump, brake lines and fluid, fuel injectors, and exhaust system.

That’s the right track! As far as the oil pump goes in these engines there aren’t really any upgraded ones and aftermarket ones are questionable, the rule of thumb for them has always been if it’s broke don’t fix it, however there are ways to inspect and measure the clearances for wear. @DSMPT is from Japan originally as well, I don’t know how familiar he is with the Tokyo area but he might be able to point you in the right direction!

As for Evo 4+ ECU, Evo 4 ECU is non-flashable, it's from Evo 5. I could be wrong but I guess the Evo 4 ECU is like the 2g DSM non-EPROM ECU. It's even not black box, it's in metal case. I have seen some Evo 4 ECUs that were converted to EPROM by adding a board, just like ECMTuning non-EPROM conversion. So to tune Evo 4, converting the stock ECU, swapping with Evo 5+ ECU or standalone would be required. In case if you decide to go with a standalone and don't tune yourself, I recommend to go with Linkecu, Motec, Haltech rather than AEM. This is because it would probably be easier to find a tuner if you live in Japan.

As for shops, if Evos, maybe you should contact G-Force or Monster Sports, they have been familiar to Evos. And they are in the Kanto region. (around Tokyo area) I also know some people who run a shop in the Kanto region. I can ask them for advice if you would like.

As for the engine parts to rebuild, if the shop you would use can't source the parts for 4g63, I can also help. I can ship from the parts supplier in the States to the shop in Japan if you need.