1G CAS dash or dot?

[Dirtrider412]

Having trouble figuring out which side to use installing this CAS when at TDC. The dot or the dash?

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[dustyboner]

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[Dirtrider412]

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Why is the notch and punch on the opposite sides. This one on google has them both on the same side. I wasnt lazy I'm getting conflicting information.

 

[jakk220]

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Why is the notch and punch on the opposite sides. This one on google has them both on the same side. I wasnt lazy I'm getting conflicting information.

You need to line the notches up. The way you have it is 180 degrees out of time.

 

[Dirtrider412]

Ok cool that's actually the way I installed it.

I'm having crank angle sensor DTC I'm trying to track down. I tested the plug on harness and it's getting 3.9 on pin 1 and 2 and 12 on pin 3 with key on and and the ground wire is good I tested continuity on it. But still getting DTC 022, maybe bad CAS?

I gator clipped the pin 4 on CAS and then tested pin 1 and 2 on the CAS by spinning the CAS with a special thing I made to put in my drill. I can't get any anything from pins 1 and 2 on CAS while having my negative probe on the ground pin and the positive on pin 1 and 2 respectively while spinning the CAS plate.

 

[steve]

Turning it by hand is enough. You want to see the switching going on on both outputs.

The ECU provides 5v pull ups to the two signals and the CAS pulls those to ground. I haven't looked at the outputs in quite awhile but I don't think the CAS itself generates any output voltage on pins 1 and 2 unlike what it says in the DTM. I believe the CAS outputs are what's called open collector and require the ECU pull ups for you to see the signal switching.

The early versions are photo-optic and the later black lidded versions use hall sensors.

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Thanks for the commoner explanation Steve, nice addition to the thread.

 

[Dirtrider412]

Ok I see thank you! ya, Steve you always know whats up. Thanks man!!

How do i go about testing it? I did the test stated above using the multi meter and never got 5 volts from pins 1 and 2, which are the Crank and Cam pins. ground pin 4 and hook a probe to the first two pins one at a time and just spin it and look for 5v?

Should I ground pin 4 and apply power to pin 3 then test pins 1 and 2 with power and ground simulated?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Didnt he say that he didn't think they would have any output voltage because they were an open collector device?

 

[steve]

how do i go about testing it? i did the test stated above using the multi meter and never got 5 volts from pins 1 and two which are the Crank and Cas pins. ground pin 4 and hook a probe to the first two pins one at a time and just spin it and look for 5v?

I'd have to go check and ECU to see that the pull up resistance it uses is.

Tell me more about exactly how you tested it?

If you applied 12v to pin 3 and ground to pin 4 to a loose CAS and didn't see anything on pins 1 or 2 you confirmed my recollection that the CAS outputs are open collector and require the ECU 5v pull-up to actually signal.

What's I'd do is first make sure the ECU isn't damaged by disconnecting the CAS and measuring the voltage on pin 1 & 2 @ the CAS connector with the ECU turned on. You should measure 5v on each relative to ground (pin 4).

 

[Dirtrider412]

I got alligator clips and energized pin 3 and grounded pin 4 with a battery charger. Then hooked the negative on my multimeter to the negative on the battery charger/negative of the CAS pin. Then used the positive on the multimeter and touched the trigger pins and spun the CAS by hand and got 5.18 on the first pin. Then could only get 4.1... on pin 2

The green tape is to keep the pos and neg from touching during testing

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The ECU is fresh back from ECMTuning. So hopefully I didn't hurt anything.

It was strange the CAS almost acted like a volume control I could slowly turn the tab and watch the voltage slowly climb as I turned it then hit a peak then went back down as you turned it past a certain point.

The CAS I believe has led lights in it and photo sensors that detect them. I think it's looking for a bright signal through the windows of the disks inside the CAS. Not sure though I'm just learning as I go ha. Steve is the wizard

With the key in the on position. The CAS positive shows ground is good . Then 11.9 on 12v pin and then 3.9 on pins 1 and 2 without engine running.

 

[steve]

It was strange the cas almost acted like a volume control I could slowly turn the tab and watch the voltage slowly climb a as I turned it then hit a peak then went back down as you turned it past a certain point.

This is what we are looking for.

As you rotate the shaft of the CAS the outputs should switch from high to low to high as the disk moves in front the the sensor. The high voltage should be close to 5v and the low close to 0v. How fast your meter responds is more a question about it.

Interesting that this time you did get a voltage on pins 1 and 2 without an external pullup. I'll have to experiment with this a bit to check my conjecture.

 

[Dirtrider412]

Oh I see ok. Thanks man! You think 1v is enough to be out of range I can't find anything about the CAS in my FSM just how to install it but my tab is confusing sadly since the "punch mark" its technically calling it opposite the notch.

Thanks again man I completely rewired the entire car and can't wait to have my baby running healthy ha my brain is fried

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[steve]

Oh I see ok. Thanks man! You think 1v is enough to be out of range I can't find anything about the CAS in my FSM

I'd measure at the ECU with the CAS plugged in to the harness and rotated by hand to see if it comes back up to 5v on both. Then you can install the CAS in the head.

When you get far enough along with your wiring to turn the ECU on...

 

[Dirtrider412]

Ok ya test it at the ECU end good idea !

The car actually runs just very poorly. O2 won't move and the DTC for crank angle.
I did verify mechanical timing last week again too. But ya I'll do the same test but on the ECU side of the harness. Thanks steve!

You were right Steve nothing at the ECU plug side of the wire so in going to find where its broken thank you again sir!

Never mind bad CAS. Have continuity through all after a better test.

 

[88turbocolt]

I am also going thru what you have explained to a T dirtrider. I wouldnt think the new CAS I have would be bad right out of box. Getting a crank shaft DTC as well. ECU should be 100 percent being I got it from ECMTuning.

My wires from ECU to CAS are in good shape. I took them out of the ECU pin connector and applied 12v to it and I had 12v at the other end.

When I turn the CAS by hand I don't hear any clicking from the injectors or anything and I haven't been getting any voltage reading from the TDC and cam signal...

Could there be something else I am missing in the equation? Or is more than likely that this new CAS is bad?

I've tried 3 different ones with the same result which led me to buying a new one but same thing.

Thanks

 

[steve]

I took them out of the ECU pin connector and applied 12v to it and I had 12v at the other end.

When I turn the CAS by hand I don't hear any clicking from the injectors or anything and I haven't been getting any voltage reading from the TDC and cam signal.

Describe this in more detail. As written it doesn't establish that your CAS to ECU wiring is good.

As discussed, the CAS gets fed 12v and ground to power it and the other two wires are the signals for Crank and Cam positioning. The FSM shows that both of these have pullup's in the ECU to +5v.

So with the CAS disconnected and the MPI relay activated you should measure 12v on the big red wire to pin 3, +5 on both the little black wire on pin 2 and the little white wire on pin 1, and 0v (ground) on the big black wire on pin 4).

With the CAS and ECU disconnected you should have continuity between CAS pin 2 and ECU pin 21, continuity between CAS pin 1 and ECU pin 22, and no continuity between any of the 4 wires (checking that none are shorted to each other & ground or battery.)

If you don't have 12v on pin 3 or Ground on pin 4 the CAS isn't going to work.

 

[88turbocolt]

Describe this in more detail. As written it doesn't establish that your CAS to ECU wiring is good.

As discussed, the CAS gets fed 12v and ground to power it and the other two wires are the signals for Crank and Cam positioning. The FSM shows that both of these have pullup's in the ECU to +5v.

So with the CAS disconnected and the MPI relay activated you should measure 12v on the big red wire to pin 3, +5 on both the little black wire on pin 2 and the little white wire on pin 1, and 0v (ground) on the big black wire on pin 4).

With the CAS and ECU disconnected you should have continuity between CAS pin 2 and ECU pin 21, continuity between CAS pin 1 and ECU pin 22, and no continuity between any of the 4 wires (checking that none are shorted to each other & ground or battery.)

If you don't have 12v on pin 3 or Ground on pin 4 the CAS isn't going to work.

Sorry Steve not to familiar with the terminology.

I have 12v on pin 3 and ground on pin 4.

With key on and Turning the CAS by hand I do not see any voltage at all on pin 2 or pin 1.

That led me to think the wiring from the CAS connector to the ECU harness connector had a break in it somewhere.

I pulled ECU pins 21 and 22 out of the ECU connector.

I took a battery I had laying around and a piece of wire and supplied pin 21 and 22 the 12v the battery had one at a time and I used a multimeter on the CAS connector pin on the corresponding wires and had 12v on each pin 1 and 2.

I did not know that with the CAS disconnected and the MPI active that pin 1 and 2 would have 5v.

Thanks for the response steve!

 

[Ceezdsm99]

Turning it by hand is enough. You want to see the switching going on on both outputs. The ECU provides 5v pull ups to the two signals and the CAS pulls those to ground. I haven't looked at the outputs in quite awhile but I don't think the CAS itself generates any output voltage on pins 1 and 2 unlike what it says in the DTM. I believe the outputs are what's called open collector and require the ECU pull ups for you to see the signal switching.
The early versions are photo-optic and the later black lidded versions use hall sensors.

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Dont you have to ground out the ecu via the Pin to adjust this ?

 

[steve]

Dont you have to ground out the ecu via the Pin to adjust this ?

What?

Perhaps you thinking about how you go about synchronizing the CAS signals with the engine mechanical timing but all this discussion so far is about how to align it for installing it (because it could be put in two ways) and how to test it.

 

[Ceezdsm99]

What?

Perhaps you thinking about how you go about synchronizing the CAS signals with the engine mechanical timing but all this discussion so far is about how to align it for installing it (because it could be put in two ways) and how to test it.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking about. It's because I just got a 6bolt eclipse and had the head rebuilt. When I got it all back together it wouldn't start, I messed with the angle of the CAS and got it to idle and run (barely ), which is then when I researched that the sensor controls the ignition timing and it's not like the 2Gs. Now I have to adjust it and I'm hoping it's just that and not anything else with the engine .

 

[steve]

Is this for the 1993 Eclipse GS 2.0?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Correct phase setting

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[Ceezdsm99]

Is this for the 1993 Eclipse GS 2.0?

1990 GST

Correct phase setting

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I've seen this, so you also have to ground the ECU to set base timing. This is the part I'm not familiar with since I've only owned 7bolt 2g's

 

[Ceezdsm99]

Correct phase setting

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Took it off and noticed these wires damaged , would this be enough to cause it not to run .

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