Resolved Bought a 1g after 15+ yrs

[NOMIEZVR4]

I bought a 1g DSM 93 AWD locally that seemed like a decent deal. I knew it had some issues, I've fixed some of the obvious stuff, now I'm trying to get the car running properly when going WOT. It feels like its got no timing advance under WOT, feels super lethargic. Even in 1st gear it falls on its face. Also it seems like the car despite having no timing was also hesitant to rev past 5000 rpms and that's with going partial throttle. I've done some basic maintenance and check ups and I'm looking for some insight.

Base timing is about 5-7 degrees
cam timing checks out all marks line up
fixed some boost leaks
New Knock sensor
Eprom ECU
emissions stuff seems to be deleted
2g MAS hardwired w/pigtail
FMIC and TBE
Tial knockoff BOV
Still 14b and 450's
running WG boost, I don't think I've seen more than 11psi

What I'm not sure about now is the EPROM. Is it possible that someone previously installed the 2g MAS without a proper chip and what I'm experiencing is the symptom of a 2g MAS on a 1g car with stock injectors? I haven't got any diagnostics on the car yet (loggers, etc)

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picture of the ECU

 

[CrackedDSM]

I bought a 1g DSM locally that seemed like a decent deal. I knew it had some issues, ive fixed some of the obvious stuff, now I'm trying to get the car running properly when going WOT. Its feels like its got no timing advance under WOT. feels super lethargic. Even in 1st gear I can't WOT it. Also it seems like the car despite having no timing was also hesitant to rev past 5000 rpms and thats with partial throttle. I've done some basic maintenance and check ups and I'm looking for some insight.

Base timing is about 5-7 degrees
cam timing checks out all marks line up
fixed some boost leaks
New Knock sensor
Eprom ECU
2g mas hardwired w/pigtail
FMIC and TBE
Tial knockoff bov
Still 14b and 450's
running wg boost, i dont think ive seen more than 11psi

What I'm not sure about now is the eprom. Is it possible that someone previously installed the 2g mas without a proper chip and what im experiencing is the symptom of a 2g mas on a 1g car with stock injectors? Also it seems like the car despite having no timing was also hesitant to rev past 5000 rpms.

That's a name I haven't seen since the DSMTalk days. Blast from the past.


Also: that ecu has a socketed EPROM and that chip is 150% not a stock chip. I'd bet it has some kind of tune on it and the not revving past 5k rpm is directly related. Like a 2-step or launch control.


And honestly a 2G MAF on a 1G untuned doesn't run as lean as people think. The stock AFR map for 1Gs calls for like mid 9:1 AFRs, so a 2G MAF on a 1G with 450s actually runs almost perfect AFRs. Unless it was tuned for bigger injectors and someone threw 450s in, I don't think that's the problem. Grab ECMLink and pop it in there, and see what's going on is what I'd do.

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

hey thanks for the warm welcome! yes, its been a while, though ive still got my vr4 Haven't left the mitsu family

thank you for the insight...so i guess i should just pony up the cash and look for ECMlink...whats a good price ballpark to pay for an ecmlink setup nowadays?

 

[CrackedDSM]

hey thanks for the warm welcome! yes, its been a while, though ive still got my vr4 Haven't left the mitsu family

thank you for the insight...so i guess i should just pony up the cash and look for ECMlink...whats a good price ballpark to pay for an ecmlink setup nowadays?

It honestly ranges. You've already got a socketed EPROM ECU so I would just go to ECMTuning.com and buy the V3 Full chip/cable directly from them. You don't need an ECU or any package. Otherwise a full setup with ECU, chip, and cable can go anywhere from like $600/650 - $850. Used DSM parts prices are idiotic.


Hell yeah though! I always liked your VR4.


But, here's a link to what I'd buy from them.

ECMTuning, Inc.

 

[steve]

That's a 1990 ECU.

 

[diambo4life]

Damn NomiezVR4. Still alive bruh? . Welcome back.

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

holy chit...diambo...wtf...

That's a 1990 ECU.

so could that be part of the reason why im having the issues im having? If i get a link v3 will having a 90 ecu still be an issue? Did 90's even come with eproms? the chassis itself is a 93...sorry Ive been out of the scene for way too long

EDIT: is there a way for me to check if the motor/harness is also from a 90? I noticed the coilpack sits under the intake plenum on the driver side...

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/90-to-93-ecu-swap.461799/ looking thru this

2nd edit..looks like ill check if the 2 wires that are supposed to be swapped are...as a side note, all my gauges work as well.

Damn NomiezVR4. Still alive bruh? . Welcome back.

how you been?! looks like you never left the DSM world and I never left 3s land( i did for a short time actually) but I always wanted a vr4..hence my username...its great to see you here still!

I went to the shootout a few years back...do people from the forums still attend the shootout still? i may go next year, coudln't make it this year.

 

[bastarddsm]

maybe on vfaq.org there is still a post about 90 to 91+ ecu swap. Got a few pins to swap, ips, iac, and the tach driver. its been since like 2012 since I dealt with 90-91 swap stuff.

Get a wideband, an autometer analog, or a AEM X series. The autometer is like an AK47 thing will work burried in sand and full of water, but it's slow. The AEM is Fast Fast Fast, but it's a lsu 4.9 and they are sensative to water (condensation from cold start) and when the sensor goes bad it will not output analog data, and AEM doesn't tell you this.

Do not get an innovate or any other ones IMO.

Lastly talking about accuracy and $200 widebands is equivlent to trying to make an exotic dancer a curch going housewife.

 

[CrackedDSM]

so could that be part of the reason why im having the issues im having? If i get a link v3 will having a 90 ecu still be an issue? Did 90's even come with eproms? the chassis itself is a 93...sorry Ive been out of the scene for way too long

EDIT: is there a way for me to check if the motor/harness is also from a 90? I noticed the coilpack sits under the intake plenum on the driver side...

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/90-to-93-ecu-swap.461799/ looking thru this

2nd edit..looks like ill check if the 2 wires that are supposed to be swapped are...as a side note, all my gauges work as well.

No issue at all, just swap pins 6 and 14 on the ECU. 90's came with EPROMs just like 91's did. You don't have to deal with tachs, IPS, IAC, or anything else. Just those two pins.

I'm using a 1990 ECU in my 91 and simply just swapped pins 14 and 6. Easy peasy.

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

man you guys are super helpful! this is great! seems like this place still has some life left in it despite social media gutting the forums and leaving them for dead!

I'll do my checks and post updates. Really appreciate the help guys, i wasnt looking forward to messing with this thing too much but now im motivated again to get it running proper

 

[TerminalTalon]

maybe on vfaq.org there is still a post about 90 to 91+ ecu swap. Got a few pins to swap, ips, iac, and the tach driver. its been since like 2012 since I dealt with 90-91 swap stuff.

Get a wideband, an autometer analog, or a AEM X series. The autometer is like an AK47 thing will work burried in sand and full of water, but it's slow. The AEM is Fast Fast Fast, but it's a lsu 4.9 and they are sensative to water (condensation from cold start) and when the sensor goes bad it will not output analog data, and AEM doesn't tell you this.

Do not get an innovate or any other ones IMO.

Lastly talking about accuracy and $200 widebands is equivlent to trying to make an exotic dancer a curch going housewife.

Why not Innovate? I was looking at a couple gauges like dual oil temp/pressure and the ethanol multi.

 

[bastarddsm]

Why not Innovate? I was looking at a couple gauges like dual oil temp/pressure and the ethanol multi.

Innovate widebands are about the most non functioning ones there are.

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

Good news fellas...car is fixed!

Spent the morning going over this thing. Did 2 main things today, swapped the wires from pin 6 and 14, previously pin 14 was green now that wire is on pin 6 and the green/white original pin 6 wire is on pin 14. After doing that and taking the car for a spin, it seemed marginally better but it for sure felt to me like base timing was retarded. So this time I actually located the mark on the crank, cleaned it and marked it, previously it was rusty and I had doubts about if the base timing was really what it was showing.

Lo and behold, it was showing way retarded, advanced it via the CAS, took it for a spin and were in business now! Its not fast by any means, only 11psi, I'll put a MBC on it and see what 14psi does but its pretty cool to have a 14b DSM running and driving now instead of sitting around rotting away!

Thank you everyone for your help. The work isn't done, the car needs coilovers, maybe an IAC, sometimes it idles high and bushings at various parts.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Get a fuel pump rewire kit(you'll need it anyway if you plan to do literally anything other than keep it perfectly stock) and run the MBC at 16lbs. Stock pump rewired flows plenty enough for a 14B at 16lbs and it'll rip too.


Toss in a Walbro 255(or whatever your favorite flavor pump is) and an AFPR, and crank 'at beeyotch up to 21. I ran mid 12's with stock everything except 14B @ whatever boost it felt like maxing out, Walbro 190 rewired(no AFPR), and dejon UICP/intake pipe and freemods. So they can rip with super little done to it! Yours will rip even better since it runs a touch leaner with that 2G MAF on 450 injectors.

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

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Picture from the day I bought it

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I want to get some 1g stealth rt turbo white wheels for it..I think it will look great. And OEM plus

Get a fuel pump rewire kit(you'll need it anyway if you plan to do literally anything other than keep it perfectly stock) and run the MBC at 16lbs. Stock pump rewired flows plenty enough for a 14B at 16lbs and it'll rip too.


Toss in a Walbro 255(or whatever your favorite flavor pump is) and an AFPR, and crank 'at beeyotch up to 21. I ran mid 12's with stock everything except 14B @ whatever boost it felt like maxing out, Walbro 190 rewired(no AFPR), and dejon UICP/intake pipe and freemods. So they can rip with super little done to it! Yours will rip even better since it runs a touch leaner with that 2G MAF on 450 injectors.

I'm gonna order the fp hotwire kit and let the 14b sing!!

 

[CrackedDSM]

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Picture from the day I bought it

That engine bay is begging for ECMLink and a speed density conversion. Lol.

I just realized this isn't actually a build thread. Lol.


Make one. They're an awesome way to keep track of what you've done and how far you have come. It's also way easier to get help on the forums when you do as we can just click your build thread and see the full list of mods and stuff you've done.

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

That engine bay is begging for ECMLink and a speed density conversion. Lol.

I just realized this isn't actually a build thread. Lol.


Make one. They're an awesome way to keep track of what you've done and how far you have come. It's also way easier to get help on the forums when you do as we can just click your build thread and see the full list of mods and stuff you've done.

Oh yeah I got build threads all over the Internet for my cars. Definitely

 

[diambo4life]

Looking good buddy...and yes, I have been around since day 1. Other than maybe a year or two I have owned a 4G6x powered Mitsubishi powered vehicle for almost the past 28 years and most of those being either a DSM or Galant VR4.

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

So I rewired the pump today, was going to grab a MBC from my buddy tomorrow and crank it up to 15...but after getting a bit more seat time, I feel like there's still something not quite right. its running 12psi, vac line going straight from WG to nipple. At first I tried convincing myself that its normal and its not supposed to be that fast, but I feel like its still retarding some timing especially when I load it up and it gets past 4k rpms. Dont get me wrong, its much better than before, but a full exhaust, intake and FMIC 14b car at 12psi should be much faster especially from a 1st gear hit. I took a video as well.

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[NOMIEZVR4]

for comparison. Also im going to get a logger on the car at some point if I dont get link just yet.

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[NOMIEZVR4]

just to see what would happen i disconnected the KS and went around the block. the CEL did come on and the factory boost gauge sprang to life. however as can be seen above during the short pull i did, the factory gauge did not indicate any knock, but the car doesn't feel like its a healthy pull, especially up top. Timing still seems retarted. Is there something im missing?

 

[CrackedDSM]

A 14B at 12lbs is the slowest feeling thing in the world even with a FMIC and stuff. That second video is modified all day, probably above 15lbs. The run mid-high14's bone stock and a FMIC isn't really gonna improve or make more HP. The Exhaust should help a little, but honestly..just I/E/FMIC and everything else stock still makes for a 14 second DSM Lol. That ECU is definitely messed with though, because 100% stock ECU that boost gauge doesn't show knock.

If you had access to a chip reader I'm super curious what was done to that chip. It's been tuned for someone elses setup so that's probably why it's acting weird. Because the setup is 100% different now. Maybe post up a WTB on facebook for a stock EPROM chip. Sometimes you can get lucky. I kept my stock EPROM out of my ECU for a long time and sold it to a guy for like $20 who needed one.


Do a 0-60 run maybe if you can borrow a Dragy. I'd bet it's right within stock. I'd be curious to see your AFRs too if you could borrow a tailpipe wideband somehow.

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

A 14B at 12lbs is the slowest feeling thing in the world even with a FMIC and stuff. That second video is modified all day, probably above 15lbs. The run mid-high14's bone stock and a FMIC isn't really gonna improve or make more HP. The Exhaust should help a little, but honestly..just I/E/FMIC and everything else stock still makes for a 14 second DSM Lol. That ECU is definitely messed with though, because 100% stock ECU that boost gauge doesn't show knock.

If you had access to a chip reader I'm super curious what was done to that chip. It's been tuned for someone elses setup so that's probably why it's acting weird. Because the setup is 100% different now. Maybe post up a WTB on facebook for a stock EPROM chip. Sometimes you can get lucky. I kept my stock EPROM out of my ECU for a long time and sold it to a guy for like $20 who needed one.


Do a 0-60 run maybe if you can borrow a Dragy. I'd bet it's right within stock. I'd be curious to see your AFRs too if you could borrow a tailpipe wideband somehow.

Yeah you are right. I'm trying to get tunerpro rt configured so I can log. Tomorrow I'm gonna install the mbc however and see what happens. Thanks for the feedback. I needed a sanity check

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

installed mbc, car is slower now with more boost. Something definitely isn't right. running 14psi. I'm going to pressure test it again just to be sure theres no leaks.

secondly, i couldn't get tunerpro to work either, so i can't tell really WTF is the issue without ruling out hardware that ive already checked. Maybe i need a legit ecmlink cable? Either way idk if i want to drop 500+ for ecmlink just yet. its practically just a exhaust/intake/2g mas car, no reason it shoudln't run good at wg boost with its current setup

I shifted at 5k cause it felt like dogchit.

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i feel like it builds boost super slow too

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[NOMIEZVR4]

these are the cables i have. both are going to a serial end and im using a serial-->usb adapter.

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