Best Turbo? [Merged 9-9] turbocharger upgrade

[hukster00]

hi, i wona upgrade my turbo on the gsx, and there is so many choices dont know which one to buy, so i asking you pepz wich turbo is best for under 1k for street/strip setup thanks,

 

[echo]

this is a question that all depends on how much power you are wanting. do you want it streetable? how much money do you want to spend? are you looking for better spool time or more boost? each and every turbo is the best to turbo to go with, that's because each turbo as it's certain limitations for what a person wants...understand?

 

[turboedoutlaser]

im doing it again!

 

[MyEclipse5]

dude just back off..ok serioulsy we can all be friends here and i know its jsut a joke but i have a short temper i would put a pic. but i am not that childish

ANYWAY,,
i do want it streetable, for a 1g GSx, or GS-t, i def. want better acc.(so better spool), um looking for prolly under 1000 but would be able to afford more, so under 2000.00, by the way thank you for your MATURE response

 

[TSi92]

t25 is da best turdbo.

 

[DragginConceptz]

do you want to stay internally gated or go external? If you want a huge turbo with kickas* spool go with a ball bearing. http://www.dsmtuners.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=2_29
do some research on these models Agp ,slowboy racing, forced performance.

http://www.dsmtimes.org/ also you can go here and look up other cars times and what turbos they were running

 

[cucumber]

There are great turbos for all applications...

I love playing in kiddie land.

 

[ZSPTurbo]

ok, I know we arent supposed to ask "which turbo should I buy" threads, but someone told me to make a new thread for this Q, so I will.

the car is a 91 awd, currently unmodified, but the tranny is going in to TRE soon, and I am gonna have all the supporting mods - dont worry about that.

my question is, what would be the best turbo for making 400 bhp at 20 psi, with a little room above? it would be aroun that level for a while, but someday it might climb to ~~450 bhp, or maby go to 25 psi. Im thinking something a little smaller than a 60-1.

 

[candela]

Well since you posted no other information along with 20psi@400bhp... Ill assume that you know what your thinking, cause there isnt really anyway we can without knowing a setup, whp or fhp etc...

 

[xleRateGSX]

He just wants to know what setup to get to 400HP to the wheels. It would take a lot more then a turbo upgrade to get to 400HP. Anyone else have a comment...

 

[ZSPTurbo]

no, I already know the setup, I want to know which turbo would be best... what would be the most efficient, have good spool up, just generally be best for that hp range.

candela- this quote confused me "whp or fhp etc..." what do you mean, I said bhp... thats engine hp, not to the ground.

also, I plan on having a very large FMIC.... I just love that look, and the massive cooling power

 

[rdrkt]

Ok first of thanks for starting a new thread.

IMO 20 lbs of boost isnt really enough to make 400hp on any turbo. A few more lbs and you should be able to make that on a 20g or 50trim. Obviously you will need the rest of the mods to support it. But that is the answer to your question.

 

[candela]

I didnt realize you were saying base horse power, sorry. Its hard to answer, cause you didn't mention any goals, wants, dislikes etc.., race fuel, pump gas blah blah

I know its not likely that pump gas will be in effect, but I think that for 400 flywheel horse power you could do that on most turbos above the 16g range

 

[ZSPTurbo]

ok, I plan on using pump gas with some sort of octane booster.... probably toulene (sp?)

I guess up to 25 psi would work....

and candela, I understand that anything above 16g CAN do it, I want to know what would do it best..

rdrkt- 50 trim what? I know you cant mean the T3 "50" and I dont know any other 50's so.... Im kinda lost.

 

[candela]

What woudl do it best according to what dude? What do you want? The 50trim t3/t4 setup stage3 wheel with .63 ar housing is a very efficient setup, a lot of people use them and love them and they can make real big power, but still spool respectably according to most. There are also, slowboy racing g50's and m50's, which are mitsu-garret hybrids that use the 50trim wheel, but use the tdo6 turbine wheel (from a 20g) that all bolt on to your manifold. Both of those turbo's are 400hp capable as well. Im not much of a fan of octane booster at all, Ive tried it and not really noticed much, and I assume you might as well pay for higher octane fuel then pay 10$ or whatever to get 1 point to a tankful... 50trim wheels are efficient at the 20+ psi range so maybe that is something you shoudl consider. Like I said, I dont know what you want though and you said you want to go more later down the road so what is more? Explain dude

 

[ZSPTurbo]

Originally posted by candela
What woudl do it best according to what dude? What do you want? The 50trim t3/t4 setup stage3 wheel with .63 ar housing is a very efficient setup, a lot of people use them and love them and they can make real big power, but still spool respectably according to most. There are also, slowboy racing g50's and m50's, which are mitsu-garret hybrids that use the 50trim wheel, but use the tdo6 turbine wheel (from a 20g) that all bolt on to your manifold. Both of those turbo's are 400hp capable as well. Im not much of a fan of octane booster at all, Ive tried it and not really noticed much, and I assume you might as well pay for higher octane fuel then pay 10$ or whatever to get 1 point to a tankful... 50trim wheels are efficient at the 20+ psi range so maybe that is something you shoudl consider. Like I said, I dont know what you want though and you said you want to go more later down the road so what is more? Explain dude

man, the two of us are just on totally diffrent wavelengths, .

well, by best I mean:
most heat efficient
fastest spool up
has room to make more power/boost

by more I meant more boost and more power.

and thank you for telling me about the other 50 trim turbos

now rdrkt, which 50 were you talking about?

 

[ZSPTurbo]

oh, and also, toulene isnt like the octane boosters in a bottle.... it actually boosts from like 93 to 95/96, not 93 to 93.3.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by ZSPTurbo
now rdrkt, which 50 were you talking about?

I prefer the t3/t4 50 trims for various reasons. But any of the bolt on or garrett versions will work great. FYI 400Hp on pump gas even with toluene is a stretch unless you either know exactly what you are doing or you are using a standalone or both.

 

[ZSPTurbo]

Originally posted by rdrkt
FYI 400Hp on pump gas even with toluene is a stretch unless you either know exactly what you are doing.

dont leave us hanging like that! its a stretch unless we either know what we are doing..... or..... WHAT!?!?

just messing with ya dude

the thing is, Im getting a dual stage boost controller from turboxs, so I wont be running on that high boost high power setup all the time... when Im not racing, just flip the switch, when I go racing, dump a gallon or 2 of toulene into my tank, flip the switch, and I got myself some 96 octane goodness. others have said it will work, but I guess I'll get a knock detector and see for myself.... there is a place around here that sells 96 octane out of the pump, but it costs WAY too much

 

[candela]

Exlain this toulene thing to me... I dont know much about fuels at all.
I think waht rdrkt means is that tuning on pump gas is pretty hard if you want to get 400+ hp from it. So you either got to know what your doing like mister 117 trap speed on pump or w/e =) (aka rdrkt) or get a stand alone system as the factory ecu will be fighting you all the way. It can be quite a restriction later on where as you can only modify and not make up your own fuel/timing maps as you can with most stand alones.

 

[ZSPTurbo]

Originally posted by candela
Exlain this toulene thing to me... I dont know much about fuels at all.
I think waht rdrkt means is that tuning on pump gas is pretty hard if you want to get 400+ hp from it. So you either got to know what your doing like mister 117 trap speed on pump or w/e =) (aka rdrkt) or get a stand alone system as the factory ecu will be fighting you all the way. It can be quite a restriction later on where as you can only modify and not make up your own fuel/timing maps as you can with most stand alones.

well, I plan on doing most of my work myself... so when I get the things done that I cant do, Im going to get them all at once. and the things Im getting done all at once are my turbo and either TEC II or E6k..... so, whatever.

alright, let me see if I can explain toulene.... I dont know ALOT about it, but I know that you can get little 5 gallon things at construction places, or you can order 55 gallon drums.... its is toxic to inhale too much of it... it raises octane alot... it makes starting your car in the winter a #####, so I wont use it in the winter... lets see, what else do I know.... lemme hit up google for a second

 

[candela]

Well what fuel isnt toxic dude are you saying its ok to inhale for a little bit Heres your setup dude... http://www.agpturbo.com/kitcloseup.jpg:thumb:

 

[ZSPTurbo]

toluene! not toulene!

if you want to get REALLY in depth, click here:
http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

I skimmed, and here are the important parts:


Toulene
R+M/2...114
Cost...$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.

Q: How much toluene should I use per tank of gas?

A: Octane ratings can be very easily calculated by simple averaging. For example, the tank of an Audi A4 1.8TQ is 15.6 gallons. Filling it with 14.6 gallons of 92 octane and 1 gallon of toluene (114 octane) will yield a fuel mix of:

(14.6 * 92) + (1 * 114) / 15.6 = 93.4

The Audi A4 1.8T is a good example of a car that has very high octane needs if it has been modified to produce more turbo boost. The base compression ratio of this car is a very high 9.5:1 and when an additional 1 bar (14.7 psi) of turbo boost is applied on top of it, the resulting effective compression ratio is way beyond what 92 or 93 octane fuel can ever hope to cope with. Most modified 1.8Ts running without octane enhancement are running with severely retarded ignition timing and boost.


Q: Will toluene damage my engine or other parts of my car?

A: A 5 or 10% increase in the aromatic content of gas will most likely be well within the refining specifications of gasoline defined by ASTM D4814, which specify an aromatic content of between 20% and 45%. What this means is that if the 92 octane gas that you started off with had an aromatic content of say 30% and you increased it by 10% to 40% you would still be left with a mix that meets the industry definition of gasoline. So the above question would amount to: "Will gasoline damage my engine or other parts of my car?"

Even in the unlikely event that the 92 octane gas has a aromatic content of 45% the resulting mix would still be within the bounds of gasoline sold in other countries.

Q: Isn't toluene an active ingredient of TNT (trinitrotoluene) and is thus deadly?

A: In the same way that cotton wool is the base ingredient of nitrocellulose (guncotton) which in turn is the main ingredient in modern smokeless gunpowder. Using this reasoning one could conclude that cotton wool is a deadly substance. This question reflects a poor understanding of basic chemistry but unfortunately it has been asked often enough.


Q: How much does toluene cost, and where can I buy some?

A: $10/gallon in a one gallon can at a hardware store, about $6/gallon in a 5 gallon can from a chemical supply or paint store, or $3/gallon in a 55 gallon drum from a chemical supply warehouse.

A2: Experience of Charlie Smith in 2002. Sherwin Williams paint stores have it for $5.00 in a gallon can. They can order it in a 5 gallon can at $4.00 / gallon. They can order 55 gallon drums for about the same cost per gallon, but you have to have a dock unloading facility to get the drum(s) off of the delivery truck.


Q: Can I just dump in 100% toluene into the tank like the F1 racers? vroom vroom vroom

A: First of all, the F1 racers did not use 100% toluene, but 84%. The other 16% in their brew is n-heptane, which has an octane rating of zero. The reason for this strange combination is because the F1 rocket fuel was limited to the rules to being of 102 RON octane. The n-heptane is "filler" to make the fuel comply with the rules.

Because toluene is such an effective anti knock fuel it also means that it is more difficult to ignite at low temperatures. The Formula 1 cars that ran on 84% toluene needed to have hot radiator air diverted to heat its fuel tank to 70C to assist its vaporization. Thus too strong a concentration of toluene will lead to poor cold start and running characteristics. I recommend that the concentration of toluene used to not exceed what the engine is capable of utilizing. i.e. Experiment with small increases in concentration until you can no longer detect an improvement.

 

[ZSPTurbo]

also, I think that when I go racing what I might do is just start the car up, dump in about 4 gallons (bringing the octane to about 99) and I will be GOOD TO GO! actually, I probably wont race with a full tank, so probably 3/4 tank and 3 gallons.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by candela
Exlain this toulene thing to me... I dont know much about fuels at all.
I think waht rdrkt means is that tuning on pump gas is pretty hard if you want to get 400+ hp from it. So you either got to know what your doing like mister 117 trap speed on pump or w/e =) (aka rdrkt) or get a stand alone system as the factory ecu will be fighting you all the way. It can be quite a restriction later on where as you can only modify and not make up your own fuel/timing maps as you can with most stand alones.

Yeah and I have the entirely WRONG turbo to try and be a pump gas king. The 50trim however is just about perfect. I have wasted so much time trying to get my pump gas numbers up there. I could be well in the low 11s on my old motor setup. Oh well.

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

why not just get 100 octane for like 3-4$$ a gallon??