bearing are shot after 50 miles...

[awdspyder98]

Ive had the worst luck the past few months. About 2 months ago my harmonic balancer came loose which caused my bearings to get flat spots. Tore the engine apart and rebuilt it with new bearings and a cut crank. All was well until I hit the dyno about 2 weeks ago to get some tuning done. My #4 rod bearing spun. After a couple of days thought. I chauked it up to oil contamination. I think I didnt clean out my oil cooler enough... so I thought. So I took the block and head to get cleaned and such and ordered all new bearings,head gasket, new eagle rods, new piston rings.. things like that. Anyways Ive put around 50 miles on the new block and today I changed the oil and decided to drop the pan just to see how things looked. When i droped the #4 rod cap its already showing signs of premature wear! I then proceded to drop the main girddle and It had the same wear. I was lucky enough to catch this before it did any damage to the crank. Im at a loss for what to do now. Im thinking its a oiling issue but Im not sure. When I istalled the oil pump it didnt have alot of miles.. I took it completly apart and checked the gears and such. I installed new seals. I prelubed it and installed it. I also primed the engine on the engine stand and after the motor was installed. I also lubed the crap out of all the bearings before installation. I did notice my oil pressure was alittle low at cold startup. It was only showing 70psi.My balance shafts are removed so I would have expected closer to 100psi. My OFH is not ported. While crusing I saw around 40 psi on the hwy but when I came to a stop and the engine was at around 200* my gauge showed 0 psi. I chauked it up to my crappy prosport oil gauge but now I see I was wronge. Is there any other signs besides cracks on the gears to verify the pump is bad or going bad? A friend of mine mentioned it could be my OFH that has gone bad. Something about a weak spring or something like that. He infomed me to install some new bearings and change out the OFH and see where the oil pressure is at with a mechanical gauge. Worst case senerio.. I would be out a new set of bearings. I already have a line on another oem oil pump but that wont be in until tuesday. Figuared I would get a jump start with the OFH.. ANyone have any other suggestions or thoughts???

#4 rod cap

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main girdle

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this is the main bearing that is closest to the timing side

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[Arthris]

check ## oil pickeup. Ive heard of them coming loose. Not sure if there is a gasket there. If there is suppose to be make sure its installed. As far as the OFH goes. Even with a weak spring with b/s removed i dont think itll go to 0psi even at idle. Id check for a main oil port cloged up. between the pump and ofh maybe.

 

[awdspyder98]

check ## oil pickeup. Ive heard of them coming loose. Not sure if there is a gasket there. If there is suppose to be make sure its installed. As far as the OFH goes. Even with a weak spring with b/s removed i dont think itll go to 0psi even at idle. Id check for a main oil port cloged up. between the pump and ofh maybe.

my oil pickup tube was on and secure. The gasket was installed. As far a clog in the block.. The block was cleaned and hot tanked. The machine shop that did the work is very reputable and have been used my many engine builders here in the area. If I had a clog wouldnt it show up anytime the engine in on? Just a thought.

 

[SlickGSX]

The only thing off the top of my head is the stubby shaft from the bse kit, do you remember which one you had?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...-affordable-balance-shaft-eliminator-kit.html

 

[awdspyder98]

The only thing off the top of my head is the stubby shaft from the bse kit, do you remember which one you had?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...-affordable-balance-shaft-eliminator-kit.html

The stubby shaft was new.. Bought it from Extremepsi.

 

[SlickGSX]

Was it a smooth shaft or did it have the oil groove in it? look at the pic in post# 21 of that thread I linked and you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[evileagleawd]

First off if I ever seen my oil gauge read zero I would turnig the key off right away and diagnosing that issue first. I would not put 50 mile on a engine with out knowing the oil psi is 100% correct. When i put a build together it dont leave the drive way till the oil psi is set! You can check the pump clearances with a feeler gauge there are specs in the repair manual. What are you setting your bearing clearances to? What motor oil are you using? What torque specs are you useing? Did you stretch the rod bolts using molly lube or just torque them down? Are they the original main bolts? Was the line bore checked? You spun the balance shaft bearing to block off the oil passage right?First off i would start with the oil psi issue looks like they are all showing wear so it is something related to all the bearings. Assembly or oil psi!

 

[awdspyder98]

It has the oil grove.

 

[bryanwheat]

That looks like contamination to me. Were the oil passages cleaned with a brush or was it just hot tanked?

 

[streetillEagle]

First off if I ever seen my oil gauge read zero I would turnig the key off right away and diagnosing that issue first. I would not put 50 mile on a engine with out knowing the oil psi is 100% correct. When i put a build together it dont leave the drive way till the oil psi is set! You can check the pump clearances with a feeler gauge there are specs in the repair manual. What are you setting your bearing clearances to? What motor oil are you using? What torque specs are you useing? Did you stretch the rod bolts using molly lube or just torque them down? Are they the original main bolts? Was the line bore checked? You spun the balance shaft bearing to block off the oil passage right?First off i would start with the oil psi issue looks like they are all showing wear so it is something related to all the bearings. Assembly or oil psi!

Agreed, all these questions come to mind. Especially if you upgraded to ARP main studs. Did you get the block and main caps Align honed? That's what the shop rebuilding my engine had to do to get the bearings to spec. Plus my crankshaft and pressure plate was terribly out of balance which if not addressed would have made bearing wear prematurely.

 

[awdspyder98]

First off if I ever seen my oil gauge read zero I would turnig the key off right away and diagnosing that issue first. I would not put 50 mile on a engine with out knowing the oil psi is 100% correct. When i put a build together it dont leave the drive way till the oil psi is set! You can check the pump clearances with a feeler gauge there are specs in the repair manual. What are you setting your bearing clearances to? What motor oil are you using? What torque specs are you useing? Did you stretch the rod bolts using molly lube or just torque them down? Are they the original main bolts? Was the line bore checked? You spun the balance shaft bearing to block off the oil passage right?First off i would start with the oil psi issue looks like they are all showing wear so it is something related to all the bearings. Assembly or oil psi!

I didnt leave the driveway with my oil pressure at 0. When I first cranked it up I was seeing around 70-75psi. When it warmed up it dropped to around 15psi. I ttok it for a short drive just to make sure everything was good. It went mostly on the freeway the next couple of days so it always saw oil pressure. I noticed the oil pressure issue when I had it idling in the driveway for about 30 minutes while I set up my fuel trims and such on the link. I didnt check clearances on the bearing. Im using 20-50w house brand motor oil on the breakin period. I torqued the eagle rods to 43psi with molly lube and the main bolts are the stock ones which was torqued to stock specs using moylube.The balance shaft bearing were spun... which was done origianlly when the balance shafts were deleted about 2 years ago. The block was checked and completly cleaned. WHen I dropped the block off I had informed them about the spun rod bearing so i asked to make sure it was completly cleaned. It has to be oil pressure related so Im leaning to pump failure but wouldnt I see some kind of signs of failure?

 

[bryanwheat]

You can't trust a machine shop that the block and crank are clean enough to assemble.

 

[awdspyder98]

You can't trust a machine shop that the block and crank are clean enough to assemble.

When I started assembling the block I did wash out the block along with the crank and such. I removed all the plugs and verified they were clean.

 

[bryanwheat]

Did you replace the oil cooler?

 

[jdsoza]

thats some nasty wear man! I'd be up on that machine shop if you payed them to hot tank and brush the block clean. On the note of being why everything failed I have a few questions. Did you feeler gauge the pump or visually inspect it? Second did you replace the oil cooler or just try to clean it? Now on to my next set of questions. who assembled the engine? Did you "time" the balance shaft delete to the engine? Now this one might make you a little upset and im not trying to bean mean, just covering all bases. Did you stamp or mark all rods and main caps? If you put the number one rod on say number 4, without align honing it this type of where is going to show, even after 50-miles. it looks like some rods are not where they originally came out of. I did the same thing on my old 2JZGE in my lexus. Corrected that and the engine is still running. Oh and i would get rid of that contaminated oil cooler, that may be your problem.

 

[95talongirl]

Isn't 20w50 a little thick of an oil to use in a break in period? I used a straight 30w oil for the first 500 miles and had no issues.

 

[awdspyder98]

Did you replace the oil cooler?

Yes I did. I replaced it with a know working one that didnt have any type of shavings in it.

Isn't 20w50 a little thick of an oil to use in a break in period? I used a straight 30w oil for the first 500 miles and had no issues.

Im not aware of any issues arising from using 20-50w oil for breaking in .

thats some nasty wear man! I'd be up on that machine shop if you payed them to hot tank and brush the block clean. On the note of being why everything failed I have a few questions. Did you feeler gauge the pump or visually inspect it? Second did you replace the oil cooler or just try to clean it? Now on to my next set of questions. who assembled the engine? Did you "time" the balance shaft delete to the engine? Now this one might make you a little upset and im not trying to bean mean, just covering all bases. Did you stamp or mark all rods and main caps? If you put the number one rod on say number 4, without align honing it this type of where is going to show, even after 50-miles. it looks like some rods are not where they originally came out of. I did the same thing on my old 2JZGE in my lexus. Corrected that and the engine is still running. Oh and i would get rid of that contaminated oil cooler, that may be your problem.

No worries... I wont take anything personal..just trying to figaure out whats going on before I sink more money. I didnt feel gauge the pump. I took it completley apart and checked for any type of groves in the casing. Checked for any cracks and cleaned it out throughly. I didnt torque them down to spec.. just tighent them back up. I did pack the pump with grease before reassembling. The oil cooler was replaced. I did the assembly on the engine. I used this type of grease to assemble it.

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When you say "time" the balance shaft delete what does that mean? I guess I didnt since I dont know what it means.. If your speaking about those little dots on the gears I did line those up together. As far as the proper rods and pistons to there respective cylinder.. that didnt matter.. I had the shop hone the cylinders. I bought new rings for the weiscos. After gapping the rings I did mark the pistons to there respective cylinder after gapping.

Dropped the oil pump today. Seemed to rotate pretty easy but not as easy as another one I have. Not sure if that matters or not. Snapped a few pics while I was at it

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[jdsoza]

yes you timed it properly. some vehicles oil pumps must be timed or they wont produce oil pressure. The reason i asked if you put all the rods back from the cylinder they came from does matter. Journals on the crank wear in a pattern with the rods. Sure bearings get replaced, but the wear and roundness itself is in the rods and crank. You said you had them hone the cylinders, that just makes each piston work in a cylinder, but it doesn't make each rod work on every journal. align hone the block and rods, and mic the crank and make sure every journal is identical. To me it looks like yes you had an oil pump problem, but the way the bearings are crushed it looks like oil clearance. I would plasti-gage and check oil clearances between the bearings and rods as well as mains, also mic the crank and check for journal diameter and out of round.

 

[bryanwheat]

yes you timed it properly. some vehicles oil pumps must be timed or they wont produce oil pressure. The reason i asked if you put all the rods back from the cylinder they came from does matter. Journals on the crank wear in a pattern with the rods. Sure bearings get replaced, but the wear and roundness itself is in the rods and crank. You said you had them hone the cylinders, that just makes each piston work in a cylinder, but it doesn't make each rod work on every journal. align hone the block and rods, and mic the crank and make sure every journal is identical. To me it looks like yes you had an oil pump problem, but the way the bearings are crushed it looks like oil clearance. I would plasti-gage and check oil clearances between the bearings and rods as well as mains, also mic the crank and check for journal diameter and out of round.

The oil pump doesn't have to have the gears aligned if you aren't running balance shaft. The alignment marks are just so that the balance shafts are lined up properly.

 

[Calan]

Did you "time" the balance shaft delete to the engine?

Not sure what that means. The oil pump alignment doesn't matter if there isn't a BS.

EDIT: Bryan beat me to it.

****

OP - How did you prime the oil pump?

 

[95talongirl]

Im not aware of any issues arising from using 20-50w oil for breaking in .

I really have not either, but then again I've never heard of anyone using it as a break in oil before. So did a quick little search to see what was out there and came across this which might be of intrest to you:

"Right now I am using Castrol GTX 10w-40. but I'm running a mechanical roller. Here is a story I just posted on Corvette Forum.

Good day gentlemen. I want to share a personal experience. I have a 383 SB in my Camaro that has a billet mechanical roller cam and a bronze distributor gear. My engine builder suggested 10w-40w which is what I used for years. I noticed that hot at idle around 800 RPM's my oil pressure was around 15 psi. This concerned me but I lived with it. I always check my dist. gear for wear at every oil change knowing that is designed to wear but I did not have any. I thought great this is lasting longer than I expected. Then I had a great idea, let's try 20w-50. So I put in Castrol GTX 20w-50. Wow, my oil pres. is up to around 25 psi. At idle hot, cool. Next oil change I check the dist. gear it was halfway eaten up from the added pressure of turning the pump. I went back to 10w-40 with a new gear and things are happy again. "

Granted, this is a SBC (small block chevy) with a distributor that was eaten, but it seems that the thicker oil was causing some initial premature wear problems. Newer cars, like ours, with tighter clearances seem to benefit more from a lighter weight oil for break in. From the search, a straight 30 or 40W or a 10w30 or 10W40 were the most popular choices. Just some food for thought and may be worth trying out the next time around. The 20w50 is perfectly fine after this critical period.

 

[cdm_sd02]

Bearing Gaps or Oil pump seems to be the issue here

 

[BogusSVO]

Crud packed in the oil galleys of the crank.... from the grind and polish of the crank. would be my "guess" why every bearing has damage.

IMHO.. 25w50 is too thick of an oil for break in, 5w30 or 10w 30 should do you just fine.

 

[awdspyder98]

Crud packed in the oil galleys of the crank.... from the grind and polish of the crank. would be my "guess" why every bearing has damage.

IMHO.. 25w50 is too thick of an oil for break in, 5w30 or 10w 30 should do you just fine.

Someone brought that to attention yesterday but considering I had the crank cut .10 under im pretty confident it was round and cleaned. Could be wronge though. As far as the oil.. Next time I will defiantly get a smaller weight,just to be on the safe side. Also ill be installing a new oil pump just to verify that the oil pump wasnt the issue.. If the problem persist with the new pump then Ill start leaning towards bearing clearances. I guess this is a good of time to just build a high compression motor. I guess ill start shoping around for some 10.5 pistons for a 7 bolt.

 

[bryanwheat]

Someone brought that to attention yesterday but considering I had the crank cut .10 under im pretty confident it was round and cleaned. Could be wronge though. As far as the oil.. Next time I will defiantly get a smaller weight,just to be on the safe side. Also ill be installing a new oil pump just to verify that the oil pump wasnt the issue.. If the problem persist with the new pump then Ill start leaning towards bearing clearances. I guess this is a good of time to just build a high compression motor. I guess ill start shoping around for some 10.5 pistons for a 7 bolt.

I have yet to actually see a machine shop properly clean the oil passages in a Mitsubishi crank shaft. You have to remove the balls at the end of the passage to properly get them cleaned well. You would be very surprised how much crap is in there from years of running. Before i knew how to remove the balls i called about 5 machine shops in my area and not one single one knew how to remove them.