Basic MAFT Questions [merged] GM MAF Translator

[gotboost55]

Basic MAFT Questions
What is it?
What does it do?
Where does it go?
Where does the xxxx color wire go?
Can I vent with a MAFT?
What MAF can I use?
Can I use a 2g MAFT with a 1g?
Can I use a 1g MAFT with a 2g?

Sorry guys !but am not really sure about this one.What does the MAFT really do and is it a good buy?thanks

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

How can this be true when you have dozens and dozens of dsmers running maft setups with 30 + psi.

I not saying you can't run the GM MAF, I'm saying it doesn't work well in "blowthrough" configuration with only the maf translator/ecu for tuning. I'm not sure what you've been reading but I had been literally STUDYING the forums to get my car to have good street manners with this setup. Check out fullthrottlespeed's forums, I'm not the only person that will tell you this.

I understand that the maft can be a little finicky, especially when they get wet,
but with them zero'd out and another tuning device I havent heard of any issues.
I know a lot of people who run them and if there was any changes in the tune from day to day ( afr ) they were miniscule, not to mention all setups will have little changes due to humidity, heat, etc even if you still run a 2g mas.

With the maft zeroed out my car barely runs cause its so pig rich. I had to remove stupid fuel to get it to stop shooting black crap (unburned money) outta the tailpipe at idle. Unless you live in a cold weather part of the world the blowthrough setup is problematic. Try it out and get back with me, thats all I'm saying. If you can run perfectly without tuning issues and re-tuning everyday please by all means let me know how you did it. I'm humble enough to accept advice. My eprom is flashed and the car was still VERY fickle when I ran it in blowthrough. Now that I have it in drawthrough, I run 25psi NO PROBLEMS no big re-tuning needed.

Do a little research on how the actual GM Maf works and you will find that it is not conducive for a high pressure, high heat intake.

EDIT: By the way it works great when its cool/cold outside, like below 70 degrees. Hotter than that equals FUBAR.

 

[wret]

RiceKiller_TSi, consider the possibility that your own anecdotal evidence may not be representative of every MAFT setup out there. My experience for example is completely opposite from yours. It worked well on the zeroed settings the moment I installed it and continued to work well in all seasons, hot and cold, with no changes of the settings. I had nice performance with it and great fuel economy.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

RiceKiller_TSi, consider the possibility that your own anecdotal evidence may not be representative of every MAFT setup out there. My experience for example is completely opposite from yours. It worked well on the zeroed settings the moment I installed it and continued to work well in all seasons, hot and cold, with no changes of the settings. I had nice performance with it and great fuel economy.

Look I'm not here to play who's got the biggest nuts. If it worked fine for you, great, but my experience is not anecdotal, I have experience with the problem not just stories from others. It did not work "fine" in blowthrough and thats fact. Each car is different so maybe it will work fine for the guy, maybe it won't, like I said try it out and get back with the community.

 

[Black_Bullet]

With the maft zeroed out my car barely runs cause its so pig rich. I had to remove stupid fuel to get it to stop shooting black crap (unburned money) outta the tailpipe at idle. Unless you live in a cold weather part of the world the blowthrough setup is problematic. Try it out and get back with me, thats all I'm saying. If you can run perfectly without tuning issues and re-tuning everyday please by all means let me know how you did it. I'm humble enough to accept advice. My eprom is flashed and the car was still VERY fickle when I ran it in blowthrough. Now that I have it in drawthrough, I run 25psi NO PROBLEMS no big re-tuning needed.

Do a little research on how the actual GM Maf works and you will find that it is not conducive for a high pressure, high heat intake.

EDIT: By the way it works great when its cool/cold outside, like below 70 degrees. Hotter than that equals FUBAR.

Hey, yea not trying to start an arguement man, Im just saying a lot of guys run the maft out here with their dsmlink and it runs great. Im sure there will always be little tuning changes that are neccesary but once its retuned I havent heard any issues afterwards.

Perhaps you can help me with the one little weird thing im getting with this maft setup,
like i was saying in my other post, Ive noticed my 02 isnt cycling(indication of closed loop)
So it is running a bit richer in partial throttle/ low load rows. I still have everything zero'd out, and I leaned out the overall afr on the chip and that helped some but my fuel trims are still a bit too rich and the o2 isnt cycling like it used to w/ the 2g mas. ( I have a crappy afr gauge and the lights tell me when it cycles, yes i need a wbo- btw.)

I was wondering if my increase fuel pressure had anything to do with it (I run 48psi n/t fpr)
but i included that in with the compensation of the 850cc injectors w/ the chip.
I was wondering could it have been my injector deadtime or something was off, but i dont think so because it wouldve did it w/ the 2g mas also before right?

At WOT the car is fine with a normal afr and pulls noticeably harder than it did w/ the 2g mas.
I really didnt want to play with the knobs on the translator to dial out the fuel while cruising, i was hopeing i could get away w/ leaving it zero'd out and tune w/ the chip but if I have to then so be it.

Do you have any ideas to my issue, im not really sure what signals the ecu to be in close loop other than low throttle percentage, coolant temps etc.?

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Perhaps you can help me with the one little weird thing.

Like you I have the EXACT same problem. I have 580cc injectors chipped and running 53psi fp. With everything accounted for it runs richer than it should at idle and while cruising. I have bandaided the problem by removing fuel in low and mid. Wish I could tell you more but I haven't had the time to play with the DSM's fuel trims lately.

The car pulls extremely hard at wot and so I've put the rich condition on the back burner till later.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Like you I have the EXACT same problem. I have 580cc injectors chipped and running 53psi fp. With everything accounted for it runs richer than it should at idle and while cruising. I have bandaided the problem by removing fuel in low and mid. Wish I could tell you more but I haven't had the time to play with the DSM's fuel trims lately.

The car pulls extremely hard at wot and so I've put the rich condition on the back burner till later.

I notice we both run 24psi on E316g's also LoL. Do you think it has to do with the fuel pressure since you and me both run higher fuel pressure? Maybe the translator should be set for smaller stock injectors due to our fuel pressure?

Your tuning with dsmlink right?

See I dont have sliders to toy around with for low and mids etc, I just tune with a eprom chip and all I have to look at is a gm/rev fuel table that just gives fuel values for a certain load row/ rpm.

I can just start pulling out fuel across that entire table little by little but that still doesnt change the fact that the car isnt appearing to be going into closed loop. As far as I remember, the fuel table I adjust on my chip is only for wot tuning, I dont think that lets me adjust cruise, partial throttle? But im not sure, I tune with evilscribe.

Ricerkillertsi, what is your logged fuel trims?

Theres got to be something going on, I knew the maft settings werent going to be exact but I dont see why it would affect closed loop/idle. I thought id just be adjusting WOT fuel maps. Maybe someone can jump in and chime in on this....

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

I notice we both run 24psi on E316g's also LoL. Do you think it has to do with the fuel pressure since you and me both run higher fuel pressure? Maybe the translator should be set for smaller stock injectors due to our fuel pressure?

Yeah, I think that running higher than stock fuel pressure may be an issue. Problem with that is, my injectors are set to produce 580cc @ 53psi so thats what I have them set at. My ecu is also chipped for 580 injectors. I've tried different injector settings on the maft but the car ran even worst. I'm not zeroed out across the board only on the complete trim (knob farthest to the left). I will get back with you when I get home and to the Talon to check the settings. It's been down for about two weeks due to some mysteriously squeaking pulley.

Your tuning with dsmlink right?

I wish It's on my wishlist.

See I dont have sliders to toy around with for low and mids etc, I just tune with a eprom chip and all I have to look at is a gm/rev fuel table that just gives fuel values for a certain load row/ rpm.

You don't have knobs on the maft?

Ricerkillertsi, what is your logged fuel trims?

Have to get home to get that info. Will get back with you. Last logs I took were in the 95% range but that was a while back.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Yeah, I think that running higher than stock fuel pressure may be an issue. Problem with that is, my injectors are set to produce 580cc @ 53psi so thats what I have them set at. My ecu is also chipped for 580 injectors. I've tried different injector settings on the maft but the car ran even worst. I'm not zeroed out across the board only on the complete trim (knob farthest to the left). I will get back with you when I get home and to the Talon to check the settings. It's been down for about two weeks due to some mysteriously squeaking pulley.

You don't have knobs on the maft?

Have to get home to get that info. Will get back with you. Last logs I took were in the 95% range but that was a while back.

Yea I have knobs on the maft, i was just saying I didnt really want to tune with it.

Yesterday I logged my lowest fuel trim at 110% and the other two at 81%...

So the 110% i think is idle, which sounds fine, but the other two i think are cruising and they seem way too rich. Id like them all to be around 110%, and with a WOT afr of around 11.3-4 ish ...

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Yea I have knobs on the maft, i was just saying I didnt really want to tune with it.

Yesterday I logged my lowest fuel trim at 110% and the other two at 81%...

So the 110% i think is idle, which sounds fine, but the other two i think are cruising and they seem way too rich. Id like them all to be around 110%, and with a WOT afr of around 11.3-4 ish ...

Sounds like you will unfortunately have to put a few clicks on "mid" and "high" in order to realize more gains there. I've pretty much gotten used to having to make minor adjustments. I see you are in Florida so your climate is pretty much thermal like here in Bama which means you'll probably have to run slightly richer during summer to keep up with 24psi of boost anywho. Keeping the trims about 95% during hot days has been a good medium for me to keep knock under control. Or you "could" turn the boost down... , had to laugh at that myself.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Sounds like you will unfortunately have to put a few clicks on "mid" and "high" in order to realize more gains there. I've pretty much gotten used to having to make minor adjustments. I see you are in Florida so your climate is pretty much thermal like here in Bama which means you'll probably have to run slightly richer during summer to keep up with 24psi of boost anywho. Keeping the trims about 95% during hot days has been a good medium for me to keep knock under control. Or you "could" turn the boost down... , had to laugh at that myself.

Thanks, I will keep you updated on how the tuning goes.
I havent had the time or energy to fool with it. It runs fine for now, just waisting a little gas thats all. It pulls really nice though, especially at night. I cant wait till I fix my boost leaks and lean it out some.

 

[ja12ke]

I've read the last page or two and quite frankly am not sure what to think. i have 2g talontsi and recently bought a blow through setup-piping, gm maf, and maf-t gen i model. i havent installed it yet since when i bought it i hadnt done the research i normally do when i buy stuff, and now i search the forums and find nothing but controversy... most of it bad. i live in wi. so my weather is always different. i wont be driving the car during the winter but i will in the spring summer and fall. now here we actually have seasons which are bigger differences than 20 deg. and this worries me.
---however to my great hope i have found the maft pro!!! it claims to have the ability to read temp... and possibly baro changes if i recall correctly on the website. the reason people have problems with the gen ii translator is that it put these two readings to a single unchanging num. i think it makes the temp always 80 degrees for example.
---so has anyone here had experience with the maft pro because if i can get good feed back you will save me a lot of $!!!

 

[ja12ke]

as ive been looking around at this i kind of asnwered my own question and can fix my own mistake. what the maft pro can do is run a speed density setup. it doesnt us the gm maf. rather it is an entire new setup. it does look like a really user friendly unit though.

 

[Black_Bullet]

as ive been looking around at this i kind of asnwered my own question and can fix my own mistake. what the maft pro can do is run a speed density setup. it doesnt us the gm maf. rather it is an entire new setup. it does look like a really user friendly unit though.

Not sure im not well read on the maft pro, im sure its better though once you set it up right and know how to use it properly.


I havent gotten to really tune my car yet to get this ridiculous fuel trims back in check, the car is very rich, two of my fuel trims are as rich as they can go actually.
Makes the car burn way too much gas and run sluggish, even with the boost so high.
Another boost leak test would definitly be wise .

For now im just going to lean out everything with the maft as much as I can till I get knock then back it up some, but what i think i figured that will work even better though, is when i get back into my chip program to reburn myself another chip, i am going to lean it out by the maf signal ( hertz ) and thats hould correct the shape of the fuel curve, and then I shouldnt have to ever touch the maf translator by more than 1 or 2 clicks max as far as fuel trims are concerned.

Ill keep posting how everything turns out.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Anyways, i fixed another small boost leak I found, and I noticed my o2 started cycling a little bit longer than it had been before when I first installed the maf.
Its still not cycling as much as it did when it was on the 2g mas , it only cycles till like 3500 rpm now*( I have extended closed loop in chip.)

Im not really worried about that, i am getting some weird readings on my logger though.
Maybe its a glitch, but the logger never showed the fuel trims cycling at all.
I will have to do another log to verify it wasnt just doing that that day.
O2 volts were dead stuck at like 2. something and my fuel trims were

ftrl- 117.1%
ftrm- 100 %
ftrh - 100 %

And I drove for about 20 minutes and they all stayed like that.
I kept the translator zero'd out for the most part, only thing I leaned out was the mid 2 clicks and the wot 1 click just to pull a little extra fuel since it had been so rich previously. I dont understand, why the trims would stay right there. Was the ecu in some kind of default, or learning mode. The battery was unplugged before then.
I mean I am happy with those fuel trims if that was what they really were but I think something else is going on.

Car didnt have any hint of knock at up to 24psi and it pulled about as hard as it ever had on pump gas from my memory, therefore it cannot be running that rich at WOT, because my car backfires and gets really sluggish if I go any richer than about 10.5 in the chip.
( I dont have wideband though so I dont have any exact numbers for AFR.)

Any ideas thanks.

 

[trunks]

Hey guys, I've pretty much read through this entire thread and have seen several comments about the increased fuel economy with the blow through gm maf set up. I was wondering if you've got your bov recirculated or not?

Mine is currently vented but just wanted to make sure I'm getting every mpg that I can in this $144/barrel environment.

Thanks.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Hey guys, I've pretty much read through this entire thread and have seen several comments about the increased fuel economy with the blow through gm maf set up. I was wondering if you've got your bov recirculated or not?

Mine is currently vented but just wanted to make sure I'm getting every mpg that I can in this $144/barrel environment.

Thanks.

Venting your BOV makes your car get less mpg to be honest.

If you are serious about the best mpg

run the lowest boost possible,
run a lean tune ( wideband and proper datalogging software needed)
make sure your car has no boost leaks, and tip top shape, and good compression
pull out as much weight as your comfortable with.
get chip tune, dsmlink, and do something like extended closed loop operation for highway.
A laggier turbo than a 16g to stay out of boost longer

Just throwing stuff like that out there...

I finally got my wideband installed today and my WOT was 10.5...
Definitly richer than I set in chip, so I had to lean a knob out again and I was able to
get it back to around 11.2ish and my fuel trims are back to normal, and its pulling a lot better now.

Messing with this translater is so much easier with a WBO2.

 

[wret]

I don't believe anyone has ever proposed MAFT as an enhancement to fuel economy but it will perform almost as good or as good as stock if it is set properly. Whether or not the bov is vented in blow-through mode will have no effect on fuel economy.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I don't believe anyone has ever proposed MAFT as an enhancement to fuel economy but it will perform almost as good or as good as stock if it is set properly. Whether or not the bov is vented in blow-through mode will have no effect on fuel economy.

Hey Wret,

I would like to know if gas milage improves with the MAFT setup ONCE its been setup perfectly.
Id say no on mines just because now that I have a WBO2, I notice the AFR's are changing a bit by temp.

I could set it at night at whatever afr, and next day in the heat of the day its off by .3 - .4
and normally richer in those times, ( this is throughout the whole fuel curve.)
I mean its not too bad, but it likes to go richer than I set it from time to time which would burn a tad more gas...

I still havent retuned the chip to correspond with the gm maf setup yet, so Ive been messing with the knobs and it is far from being zero'd out at the momment... While zero'd out I dump too much fuel at all times.
( My fuel pressure?)

I AM going to zero it back out and tune more so with the chip because I believe that will cut back on some of the inconsistentness; and in turn, I am going to lean out the injector size with the base knob so the whole curve is leaner therefore I may be able to dial it in like that while leaving the rest of the knobs zero'd out...
Any opinions on that ^ ?

Well anyways when its running the exact way I set it at; it feels smoother, and has more response than 2g maf did.
But the quicker spool up I get with this thing likely isnt helping fuel economy either.
( Very quick transient boost response, and I get 24psi by 3300-3400 rpms)
I need to log mpg and compare, but the test wont be accurate to my old mpg test I did with 2g mas awhile back
since a few things changes in my setup.

I think venting the bov makes the car richer whether vented or recirculated
despite being in blow thru config. I mean it obviously wont be as bad as venting with a draw thru maf setup, but I believe changes in air velocity, or something when you blow off may cause turbelance or something that still causes a slight rich effect.

I say this because when I vent, every time I blow off the afr's dive down as low as 11.1ish, versus when I shift without any boost build ( to where it blows off ) then it doesnt go rich. The only boost leaks I have at the momment is TB shaft seal, and mbc is bleeder style ( it bleeds way too much on leak test. Im getting a different mbc soon.)

Anyways, maybe you can better explain why it goes rich, but I tried it both ways venting and not venting and blowing off, and shifting without any pressure built and it goes rich whenever it blows off vented - period...

 

[chavez408]

Where do most of you set up your maf's at? I'm thinking of putting mine right near my TB since I am still running abs and I am low in options.

 

[Avionixx]

I'm running the ETS FMIC along with their piping kit and it puts the MAFT right before the TB elbow. Very close to the ABS unit, but plenty of space to put the MAFT in the correct orientation.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Where do most of you set up your maf's at? I'm thinking of putting mine right near my TB since I am still running abs and I am low in options.

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I had a thread on my gm maft setup ( pretty much same questions I was asking in here) in the tuning section and I may have put more pics in there.

 

[chavez408]

From what I know it really does not matter where you set it up at. Aslong it is pointing to the right direction (airflow).

 

[wret]

I would like to know if gas milage improves with the MAFT setup ONCE its been setup perfectly.

I doubt it. We typically mod and adjust these things for optimum performance, which is not always compatible with economy.

I think venting the bov makes the car richer whether vented or recirculated
despite being in blow thru config. I mean it obviously wont be as bad as venting with a draw thru maf setup, but I believe changes in air velocity, or something when you blow off may cause turbelance or something that still causes a slight rich effect.

Change in velocity? How about when the throttle plate slams shut? That's a major change in velocity. Your sensors don't care if you juggle excess air around in your tubing or let it go.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I doubt it. We typically mod and adjust these things for optimum performance, which is not always compatible with economy.

Change in velocity? How about when the throttle plate slams shut? That's a major change in velocity. Your sensors don't care if you juggle excess air around in your tubing or let it go.

Im saying abrupt changes in air movement thru the pipe might effect the air metering somehow? But idk, why does my car go so rich between shifts. Injectors deadtime being too high or something.Its not just my car i see doing that either. ( Srry if Im not making sense ive hada few drinks tonight.)

 

[wangboy925]

I have a GM MAF sensor sitting around for a while and I don't know if its a 3" or a 3.5". I measured it and the insides came to 3 1/10 inches and the outer edge is 3 2/10 inches. Is this considered a 3" GM MAF then?