Alternative Fuel E85 Ethanol Corn Gas E70 (Beginner) [MERGED]

[311GSX]

THIS WILL BE RESERVED FOR BEGINNER E85 QUESTIONS, FOR TUNERS THAT HAVE NEVER HEARD OF RUNNING IT OR HAVEN'T RESEARCHED IT YET. THE ADVANCED E85 THREAD IS HERE FOR THE MORE ADVANCED QUESTIONS ---> http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/372386-alternative-fuel-e85-ethanol-corn-gas-e70-advanced-merged.html

HOPEFULLY THIS WILL MAKE THE BASIC E85 INFORMATION MORE CENTRALIZED AND EASIER TO FIND FOR THE DSM'rs WHO ARE JUST GETTING THEIR NOSE WET AND ARE UNSURE OF WHAT E85 IS.

THANKS,

GOFER

__________________________________________________​

Has anyone tryed running E85 in their dsm? Their is a station in my area that sells it and it's not much more than regular gas. It is 85% ethanol and 15% gas and is 110 octane . It could be a cheap alternative to race gas.

 

[JrCRXHF]

I have been running it in my turbo Honda for 2 years but i have to buy it by the 55gallon drum.

I tuned with a wide band to around 8.5:1 af and the stuff makes good power there.

you do not need to do anything with the rubber in your lines if you car is from the late 80's on up because there were designed for at least 10% from that point forward if you want to run meth then you need to redo lines.

 

[GVR4592]

I have been running it in my turbo Honda for 2 years but i have to buy it by the 55gallon drum.

I tuned with a wide band to around 8.5:1 af and the stuff makes good power there.

you do not need to do anything with the rubber in your lines if you car is from the late 80's on up because there were designed for at least 10% from that point forward if you want to run meth then you need to redo lines.

Have you tried running it richer? Ethanol will usually make more power if you run it rich, like 7-7.5:1

 

[larsrya8]

The oxygen sensor doesn't care about what type of fuel you are using, it measures oxygen content in the exhaust gas. The problem is actually getting to stoich without maxing out your fuel trims, which is basically impossible with a stock ecu.

An idea to make that work would be to use one of those widebands that outputs the narrowband reading to the ECU. You could change that output so 7.8:1 (or whatever) is 0.5 volts. Then the trims wouldn't be a problem.

Anyone know if it has been determined that the Walbro fuel pumps will work with E85? I thought I saw somewhere that they don't.

 

[GVR4592]

An idea to make that work would be to use one of those widebands that outputs the narrowband reading to the ECU. You could change that output so 7.8:1 (or whatever) is 0.5 volts. Then the trims wouldn't be a problem.

Anyone know if it has been determined that the Walbro fuel pumps will work with E85? I thought I saw somewhere that they don't.

That seems like a good idea.

 

[tstkl]

yea, I was told that you get lower fuel economy because there is less enegry density, which is why you need to inject more fuel to get the same amount of energy (aka hp) and even though it is cheaper, your actually getting less milage so its roughly the same, although the octane rating is much higher. There aren't any local stations selling it, but I also read that it can eat away at some fuel components, and you have to have your fuel system specially treated to get it to work without doing damage to your fuel system. Im sure there are a lot of rumors flying around about this stuff, so clearing some of it up would be good I guess.

 

[GVR4592]

There's a thread about E85 in the hangout as well.

 

[Dark_Horse]

Anyone know if it has been determined that the Walbro fuel pumps will work with E85? I thought I saw somewhere that they don't.

Walbro claims they're not ethanol tolerant...But anyone that's running E85 that I know/heard of uses a Walbro 255. Or 3 Walbro 255 pumps in certain cases.

I've heard of 1 failure though. 2 years and over 25,000 miles on a Walbro 255 in straight E85 at 65psi base pressure or something like that (Base pressure may have been higher) and the pump failed. But the failure is attributed to the high base FP.

 

[AL92]

Reading some stuff about new lotus running e85 and putting out significantly more power than pure gasoline powered version. What is needed to run e85 in one or our cars?
Is it even possible?

 

[andymoraitis]

Looks like plenty of work Allan. Here's a thread to review.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62198&highlight=Ethanol

Searches for Ethanol using titles only will bring up more reference threads.

Have fun,

Andy

 

[No_Skillz]

Keep in mind that ethanol is more stable but has less energy than gasoline. Getting more power out of it requires tuning, just the same as regular gas. Whether it's worth it is up to you.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Really doesn't seem worth it at all. Corn is a renewable resource, but.... takes alot of water, and land to grow it... and then the energy consumed extracting the oil for the e85.... seems, almost, counterproductive

 

[Dark_Horse]

Reading some stuff about new lotus running e85 and putting out significantly more power than pure gasoline powered version. What is needed to run e85 in one or our cars?
Is it even possible?

Problems I see with your setup:

1. Your injectors are too small to see anything from running E85. You can't come close to extracting the full potential of the 3065 with anything less than 1200cc injectors running E85.
2. Your fuel pump is also too small...You'll need dual in tank pumps, supra in tank with inline pump, something like A1000, or a Bosch 044 inline.

But, if you stay under 45lbs/min, you should be fine. (assuming your supra pump is rewired and assuming you're running around 11.5:1 - 12:1)

For 950's and 100% E85, use 38% global correction and fine tune from there.

Also, replace your fuel filter after a few tanks of E85 as it will probably get clogged with fuel system crud. E85 is a great fuel system cleaner!

The only other parts you may need (besides larger injectors/pump) are anodized fuel rail & ethanol tolerant fuel filter (unless yours already is). The filter may not be a big concern since they get replaced semi-frequently. Other thought is that the fuel filter is of no concern at all, especially seeing that the WRX platform has seen no corrosion on the stock filter after 2 years and 20,000+ miles of constant E85 use.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Has anyone seen or compiled a list of what all would need to be changed out to convert a 2g to run on Ethanol? I know the fuel rail and any rubber seals would have to go, but what about what kind of fuel pump is needed, what kind of lines to the rail are needed, are the orange and green o-rings that go around the injector inside the rail ethanol safe? What about standard SS braided fuel line?

Basically, what needs to be changed to run this fuel?

 

[T is for TURBO]

Anything aluminum has to be anodized... Head, pistons, ect. Get a plastic gas tank... but since you have a GSX thats no problem.

Good luck with it man

 

[aero_sallee]

Anything aluminum has to be anodized... Head, pistons, ect. Get a plastic gas tank... but since you have a GSX thats no problem.

Good luck with it man

Why? No one that I know of anodizes pistons or any head parts. Stock flex fuel vehicles don't have it.


I've run E85 a few different times in my 2g. Probably about 6 weeks total. Had the rail off and there was no corrosion whatsoever yet. Fuel line from tank is replaced, otherwise its normal. I haven't had any issues yet, and will replace anything as it goes. The only problem I have is only being able to run 11-12 lbs before the injector DC goes above 100%. 550s and E85 don't go together.

Cold start is the biggest problem. In <50 degree weather it starts taking alot more pulsewidth to get it to start. So unless you have a standalone, or some way of modifying cranking fueling you will have some serious problems.


Some researchers were testing a new ethanol based piston aviation fuel. It was called AGE85. They determined that adding under 1% biodiesel reduced the effects of corrosion below the levels present in 100LL. I imagine it would help with fuel pump longevity also. It also helped protect the valve seats in the absence of lead. If I can find some B100, or B99 I will give it a try and see if it has any negative effects.

 

[JayRolla]

I was wondering how many people are running e85 gas in their DSM? My mechanic is running it now and he loves it. E85 is comparable to 110 octane, and it is only 2 bucks a gallon here. To run it you just need 33% more fuel in your engine and bigger fuel lines. Hes running 1850 injectors and some crazy fuel pump in the engine bay. He is hoping for 10's on e85 and thats up here a mile high. He says he can run as much timing as he wants with e85 and still no knock at 30+ psi. Does anybody have some good quarter miles on e85 already?

 

[delta448]

Is it safe to run? Has he done some research on this? I thought I heard that alcohol is corrosive to rubber, like injector o-rings and such. Maybe since it's not straight alky it's okay...?

 

[ChvyKc]

I've been wondering about this as well. I've heard the same thing about the octane rating of around 110. It would be sweet if we could use that. E85 is under 2.00 here. I wish that my Titan was a FlexFuel truck, sure would save me a lot of money.

 

[DankDSM]

The one downside to E85 octane, as the original poster said, is that you need more of it. I think 33% is a little on the low side too. I know with straight alcohol cars that it takes about twice the fuel and E85 is only 15 percent gas. So even though it is cheaper per gallon you dont get the same miles per gallon so in all actuality you are probably paying more to run e85. But it is 110 octane which means mad boost. It is a give and take with E85 and I think that if it is readly availabe and you are completely redoing your fuel system anyway it might be a wise investment. Other wise it is just too expensive. That is just my 2 cents on E85.

-Josh K.

 

[JayRolla]

Yes he has researched it and has been running it for while. You need ONLY 33% more fuel. Everything seems to work fine, just swap fuel lines from rubber. So know one on this site is running it????

Also it is more but still cheaper than race gas.

 

[matt j]

ya you will need at a minimum of 550cc injectors, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, new SS fuel lines, kevlar o-rings. It runs considerably leaner than normal gasoline so it takes more to make power. Gas mileage will go to shit also. I did alot of research on the subject and it just sounds like way to much work for me.

 

[ChvyKc]

Also it is more but still cheaper than race gas.

That's exactly why I was interested in it. I paid 8.00 a gallon at the track last time for C16.

 

[JayRolla]

Im not really asking how to use it, I know that. I want to see any quater mile times. He is hoping for mid 10's on street tires up in the rocky mountain air. Want to see who has done better.

 

[matt j]

well on a side note there is a guy here in town with a 91 tsi awd that is running e85. His best time so far i think is in the 12s, but he is afraid to launch the car i think. Either way i have never seen him launch it, just gradually take off and then mash the gas.

 

[yokotabrat]

Jay, there are a few guys locally that have run E85 successfully both on CODSM and RMDSM. Seth, Carl, Jack, and Marcus come to mind. Times have ranged from 12s on an Evo316g to 10s with Jack and Marcus(I'm pretty sure Marcus was running E85 on his 10.6 run). I had really good results with it as well, just no times to back it up yet.

Like everyone else says, you just need more fuel than you'd normally need. For example, 660s are too small to run 100% E85 on a 16g. You can run 1/3 E85 though on a 16g and see most of the gains from it. I did that and it ran great. 23+psi without knock without water injection where previously I could only get about 17psi without knock with water injection. You just have to have a way to be able to change fuel fairly easily since E85 concentrations can vary during the year.