Alternative Fuel E85 Ethanol Corn Gas E70 (Beginner) [MERGED]

[311GSX]

THIS WILL BE RESERVED FOR BEGINNER E85 QUESTIONS, FOR TUNERS THAT HAVE NEVER HEARD OF RUNNING IT OR HAVEN'T RESEARCHED IT YET. THE ADVANCED E85 THREAD IS HERE FOR THE MORE ADVANCED QUESTIONS ---> http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/372386-alternative-fuel-e85-ethanol-corn-gas-e70-advanced-merged.html

HOPEFULLY THIS WILL MAKE THE BASIC E85 INFORMATION MORE CENTRALIZED AND EASIER TO FIND FOR THE DSM'rs WHO ARE JUST GETTING THEIR NOSE WET AND ARE UNSURE OF WHAT E85 IS.

THANKS,

GOFER

__________________________________________________​

Has anyone tryed running E85 in their dsm? Their is a station in my area that sells it and it's not much more than regular gas. It is 85% ethanol and 15% gas and is 110 octane . It could be a cheap alternative to race gas.

 

[JayRolla]

Cool, thanks for the reply I knew Jack and Kevin run it but I didn't know Marcus was running e85 on his 10.6. So your saying I could through 1/3 in even with only my 550's. I would also have to get the fuel lines. I was thinking of getting meth injection instead of e85. You were saying you got better results with e85. I was going to run a 80/20 mix with 80 meth 20 water.

 

[yokotabrat]

Your 550s might not be big enough. If you have a way to log injector duty cycle you can find out. Just add about 12% on top of whatever you're seeing now, and that's at a minimum what you can expect to see when you run 1/3 E85 and compensate for it. It'll get worse if you turn the boost up since your duty cycle will just go up more.

I was only running windshield washer fluid when I did my WI, so my methanol content was much lower than what you're planning on running. With my WI system run the way it was, yes, I had better results when running E85. With meth injection, provided you have a large enough jet, I could see that as being comparable to running E85 in performance. I had an aquamist setup, so I was limited in the amount of methanol I could run so I chose E85 instead.

Fuel line upgrades are debatable. There are a few WRX guys locally that are running full E85 and have even disassembled fuel lines and had not seen any degradation after running it for a year or two. No one locally that's been running it has noticed any adverse effects yet, but people haven't been running it for years on end. Time will tell I guess. I'm willing to take that risk, though.

For reference, there is a lot of good info on E85 here, especially some of the reference links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

 

[JayRolla]

I am running around 70 percent IDC if I remember right. I will have to datalog it again someday. So I should only be around 82 percent without raising the boost. I am running about 19 lbs right now so im thinking of 22 lbs which will probably give me around 90 percent IDC's. I know going over 80 percent is risky but lots of people do it. I also could raise my fuel pressure which I believe is at 42 psi. I was thinking of putting the regulator at around 46 psi. I also have a rewired 255 high pressure so I should be fine there. I am still skeptical about not changing the fuel lines because WRX's are alot newer than my Talon and might be built different. If I have to change my injectors or my lines I will just go with meth injection.

"Just so everyone knows this is my brother that made this thread. Im not the one asking the questions so my mod list wont work, if you look, but it is very similar."

 

[1stGenRocks]

i ran a tank of 50/50 and a tank of straight e85 through my 2g. the 50/50 i just ran when i went to the track because i was having some knock issues. the 100% i bumped the boost from 20. my mbc spiked 30 then held 25 with no knock when i was getting light knock on 93 at 20 psi. havent played with the timing too much but after i put in my ebc and can hold a solid 26psi ill start raising the timing and see what it can really do.

ive heard straight e85 you just add 20% fuel. ours is only labeled as 105 octane too.

BTW B16g, 880's, dsmlink and stock smic (flame on )

 

[ChvyKc]

I ran my B16G at 24 pounds on a supra sidemount with 550's, 255HP, 38 pounds of fuel pressure and straight water through my water injection with no knock. The car just screamed (even with all the boost leaks) It acutally felt like the car made more power with straight water injection. When I put a 30/70 meth/water mix in there the car seemed to have problems up top and just wouldn't pull as hard above 5,000.

I can't find the last log that I had when I was running that set-up so I couldn't tell you what my duty cycle was but it couldn't have been that high or I would have noticed it.

 

[Dark_Horse]

ya you will need at a minimum of 550cc injectors, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, new SS fuel lines, kevlar o-rings. It runs considerably leaner than normal gasoline so it takes more to make power. Gas mileage will go to shit also. I did alot of research on the subject and it just sounds like way to much work for me.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

1. 550cc injectors and E85 is just asking for problems
2. You do not need SS fuel lines
3. E85 runs RICHER than gasoline. Lower stohic #'s are richer. Gasoline Stohic = 14.7:1 - E85 Stohic = 9.85:1
4. Gas mileage doesn't go to shit that much. It's about a 10 - 20% drop in MPG depending on how heavy your "lead" foot is.



JayRolla - I'm 100% positive that Marcus ran E85 on his 10.6 run.

 

[JrCRXHF]

That and the only reason its cheaper is because the government subsidises a huge part of it. So it really doesn't cost any less, everybody else ends up fronting the cost with our taxes.

well do you think your taxes don't pay for the war in the middle east. as far as not really being a green fuel it is much greener then anything else we have. it does not cause more harm then gas by anymeans to make.

 

[Defiant]

Thanks for bringing this back to throw in the politics.

Closed.

 

[OverboostXS]

I'm looking into running E85 and I was unable to locate specific information about a particular question. Seeing to run 25PSI I should run around 1000cc injectors, should I burn a chip that illustrates that there are 1000cc injectors or should I use the equivelant of 660cc for pump gas, seeing the difference between the two fuels. Any info would be helpful thanks.

 

[92TSIEAGLE]

E85 is highly corrosive. Your fuel system will not be able to accomodate the use of E85. Here is a blurb from Daimler Chrysler regarding E85 fuel.

" Can I use E85 in my conventional vehicle"

- It is VERY important that owners of non-flex fuel vehicles understand that while E10 is safe to use - and even recomended-E85 should not be used in thier vehicles.
- Customers who accidentally use E85 in thier non-flex fuel vehicles will typically find that it runs poorly and turns the check engine warning lamp on. Continued use will cause seals to dissolve and possible engine damage.

 

[topstreet]

There are plenty of DSMers using E85 right now. It is not corrosive like methanol is. The manufactures are protecting their butt's.

You are going to require 30-40% more fuel then gas. If this car is going to be 100% E85 you should plan on using 1600's with a hell-o-fuel pump (~130 gal/hr @ your peak psi).

 

[sbiggi]

1000 cc injectors are only good for 40lbs/min when using e85.

Just set the injector size smaller so that it hits the A/F you need.

 

[topstreet]

1000 cc injectors are only good for 40lbs/min when using e85.

Just set the injector size smaller so that it hits the A/F you need.

That would be 60% additional fuel requirement. Its 30-40% depending on your blend.

 

[sbiggi]

That would be 60% additional fuel requirement. Its 30-40% depending on your blend.

30-40% more fuel makes your 1000cc injectors like around 600cc for gasoline. 40 lbs/min of airflow is all they will support if you are running E85.

Dark Horse has writen up lots of stuff and done that math for different injectors and different % blends of e85 and gasoline. Search for it, its there.

Better yet > http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253452

 

[topstreet]

40 lbs/min of airflow

This was not specified. You were talking about injectors and mentioned a flow rate without informing anyone that now you were talking about airflow.


Either way, the pump E85 is more along the lines of 30% with a 9.5:1 Stoich. I dont need to search for info I know. This is pretty cool stuff either way. I am planning on running E98 as a "street" fuel. The cooling properties, low cost, and clean burn are definitely worth the experimenting.

 

[blackGSX2g]

I ran E85 in my car for about a month and a half at 30psi on 850cc injectors with no problems. WOT tuning needed no adjustments, but I was running pig rich on 93 oct. I did, however, bump up base fuel pressure to compensate right when I filled up. I did notice alot of lag at lower RPMs before tuning it out with E85, but after some adjustments it was under control...especially with the $1.80/gal price tag. I also liked the fact that I didn't smell like I've been riding a dirtbike for hours when I go places, the exhaust smell is way better than pure gasoline.

The only reason I switched back to 93 octane is that it was only available in my immediate area, so when I travel outside of my hometown it is not available and it throws my maps way off. If E85 was more widely available, I would much rather run that. Way easier to tune.

 

[awddynamite]

we have used E-85 in several cars including a 550awhp street evo on 32psi with 1600cc injectors and an aeromotive 1000hp pump, all this was done on a mustang dyno too, we usa's fastest street grandam on it as well 365whp 365ftlbs on 14psi, we have also done several other cars on it as well, no problems have occured with any of the ten plus vehicles we have tuned with it!!

 

[1stGenRocks]

Yea I love e85 but it is a pain to get ahold of. I richen my global up 20% for straight e85, turn the boost up and have at it. I agree on it smelling better too.

 

[2002SL1]

We have a car at our local shop in CO spring running E85 at 35 PSI.
MPG is down to about 11-12 and thats foot on the floor 100% of the time.
Hes running mid 11s with 1600cc injectors.

My car is running 30 PSI.
MPG is about 12-13.
Mines running high 12's on the stock engine.

I Really only run E85 at the track and 91 any other time (not at 30psi though)
Started running E85 because its cheaper than Race gas (111 TrackTek) by about $2.50 a gallon and doesnt have any lead in it.

Daily use I wouldnt recomend it just because of the MPG difference but for track use Go for it.

Just plan on spending some time to retune your entire car to run it and not that you need to I would recomend upgrading fuel lines and to a larger pump than a 255.

I have a A1000 Fuel pump in my car with 950CC injectors and its running just fine.

It sucks at first to get it to run but once you start messing with it and have it going it works great.

If you have DSMLink or the AEM EMS save yours settings for 91 and another set for E85. That way you can go back if needed.

 

[JayRolla]

We have a car at our local shop in CO spring running E85 at 35 PSI.
MPG is down to about 11-12 and thats foot on the floor 100% of the time.
Hes running mid 11s with 1600cc injectors.

My car is running 30 PSI.
MPG is about 12-13.
Mines running high 12's on the stock engine.

I Really only run E85 at the track and 91 any other time (not at 30psi though)
Started running E85 because its cheaper than Race gas (111 TrackTek) by about $2.50 a gallon and doesnt have any lead in it.

Daily use I wouldnt recomend it just because of the MPG difference but for track use Go for it.

Just plan on spending some time to retune your entire car to run it and not that you need to I would recomend upgrading fuel lines and to a larger pump than a 255.

I have a A1000 Fuel pump in my car with 950CC injectors and its running just fine.

It sucks at first to get it to run but once you start messing with it and have it going it works great.

If you have DSMLink or the AEM EMS save yours settings for 91 and another set for E85. That way you can go back if needed.

Hey who is this, just wondering what shop you run.

 

[2002SL1]

Sorry about that. Our Local Shop being Local DSM Shop not Mine. (should of said the differently when I first posted)
The Shop is owned by a guy Named Jack dont know the exact Shop name.
He said that his car was down in the mid 11s.
His Brother Kevin also runs E85 with no problems.
Another Guys that Works there Tyler is going to be running it in his cars too.

My car profile is way out of date I havent been on here in a long time.

 

[matthewdesigns]

JayRolla and 2002SL1: Where in the Springs can I buy E85? I've never seen it on the Westside or Downtown.

I think Jack is calling himself Jack's Transmissions now as he's putting a lot if energy into marketing himself as a DSM tranny builder/upgrade service: www.jackstransmissions.com

 

[2002SL1]

ACORN gas station on 8st and cimmiron is the only place that sells it right now.
Its only at one pump. If you look at the front of the bulding its the pump on the far right.

Farmcrest and 1-stop are suppost to start carrying E85 in a few weeks.

Its posted on this site if you need an exact address and when more stations get converted over they will update.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/progs/ind_state.cgi?CO

 

[matthewdesigns]

Thanks for the location

 

[JayRolla]

Sorry about that. Our Local Shop being Local DSM Shop not Mine. (should of said the differently when I first posted)
The Shop is owned by a guy Named Jack dont know the exact Shop name.
He said that his car was down in the mid 11s.
His Brother Kevin also runs E85 with no problems.
Another Guys that Works there Tyler is going to be running it in his cars too.

My car profile is way out of date I havent been on here in a long time.

Ohh ok, ive known jack for over 7 years now. Very good guy. He actually is running E85 in all his dsm's, including his SHO and yamaha bike. I think one of them broke into the 10's and all there cars should be there this season.