Alternative Fuel E85 Ethanol Corn Gas E70 (Beginner) [MERGED]

[311GSX]

THIS WILL BE RESERVED FOR BEGINNER E85 QUESTIONS, FOR TUNERS THAT HAVE NEVER HEARD OF RUNNING IT OR HAVEN'T RESEARCHED IT YET. THE ADVANCED E85 THREAD IS HERE FOR THE MORE ADVANCED QUESTIONS ---> http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/372386-alternative-fuel-e85-ethanol-corn-gas-e70-advanced-merged.html

HOPEFULLY THIS WILL MAKE THE BASIC E85 INFORMATION MORE CENTRALIZED AND EASIER TO FIND FOR THE DSM'rs WHO ARE JUST GETTING THEIR NOSE WET AND ARE UNSURE OF WHAT E85 IS.

THANKS,

GOFER

__________________________________________________​

Has anyone tryed running E85 in their dsm? Their is a station in my area that sells it and it's not much more than regular gas. It is 85% ethanol and 15% gas and is 110 octane . It could be a cheap alternative to race gas.

 

[justinschmiidt]

I'm running e85 in my Colt, here are things I have noticed.

Blends vary from gas station to gas station, so it's a good idea to get one of these.. Echecker - E85 Fuel Test Tube

To switch over you should run your tank down until it's almost empty, fill up, run that tank out, and fill up again. It will take atleast that long, maybe another tank to clear out your entire system.

You should find a good station that you like their blend, and always go there. I was getting e85 at Meijer for a few weeks but I pulled my injectors and they were covered in black goo so I switched stations. I pulled the injectors again and they were clean, meaning to me that Meijer uses a crappy blend.

Anyways, Many high HP guys use e85 on stock fuel lines, rails, pressure regulators, ect.

I'm on a parts store filter, stock return line, stock regulator, stock line from tank to filter, and I have a -6 line from the filter to the rail.

I had no issues on FIC 850's at stock base pressure. My 255 is rewired. I installed 1550's and had many issues until I got the easytune box, but that was an unrelated issue.

You will have to tune the car more often than you would I gas, but it's as simple as adjusting fuel trims for the most part.

This is a great website with more information

Good luck.

 

[kawgomoo]

good find on the fuel checker! e85 station here is a litle suspect....

 

[livedsm4g63]

I run it straight with 950's, 255, stock wiring and fpr. My boost is at 25-26 and it falls to 24. I see 80% duty cycles. I also have the stock filter and lines on as well. The 8th tank just went in tonight. I believe you will be alright.

 

[justinschmiidt]

I run it straight with 950's, 255, stock wiring and fpr. My boost is at 25-26 and it falls to 24. I see 80% duty cycles. I also have the stock filter and lines on as well. The 8th tank just went in tonight. I believe you will be alright.

A member on ECMtuning reported a 20% duty cycle drop by switching the stock filter to rail out for a -6 piece in place.

You should consider that.

 

[SHaman]

I'm kinda confused as to how E85 is a good thing. I understand that it allows more power, but having to carry around a tester and peeing into a beaker before filling up at a gas station doesn't sound like too much fun.

 

[68442]

Lol, you don't have to do that, probably very few do. Its for those whose tune is spot on or are very anal. Ethanol is cheaper than the gas they have to add to denature it so it doesn't pay to "short" you on the content. Probably good when the seasons change to see if your getting e70 or e85.

 

[JayRolla]

I'm kinda confused as to how E85 is a good thing. I understand that it allows more power, but having to carry around a tester and peeing into a beaker before filling up at a gas station doesn't sound like too much fun.

There is only one real bad thing about e85. Worse gas mileage. Usually 10-20% worse gas mileage compared to gas. But the power gains are well worth the difference.

Another small issue is that some people notice a black goo build up on the injector tips. Causing sometimes poor fuel delivery which has lead to blown motors down the track. You can either pull the injectors and clean them or run regular gas every 5k-10k miles to clean them.

 

[justinschmiidt]

There is only one real bad thing about e85. Worse gas mileage. Usually 10-20% worse gas mileage compared to gas. But the power gains are well worth the difference.

Another small issue is that some people notice a black goo build up on the injector tips. Causing sometimes poor fuel delivery which has lead to blown motors down the track. You can either pull the injectors and clean them or run regular gas every 5k-10k miles to clean them.

I got 25mpg on 93 octane, 2 weeks after switching over to e85 I calculated 19-21mpg depending how I was driving.

This of course is on my 4g61T 1.6l though, no clue what effect 0.4l of more displacement would have if any.

 

[GSX_TC1]

So what all would you need to change if you wanna switch over to E85? and would you have to atleast have dsmlink or something?

 

[justinschmiidt]

So what all would you need to change if you wanna switch over to E85? and would you have to atleast have dsmlink or something?

Yes to dsmlink/aem/ect.

Things to change, capable fuel pump (single 255 is good for about 450-500whp).
You need injectors capable of the new fuel demand.

To be honest that's about all you NEED.

To be safe you could do a tank to rail kit with a stainless steel filter element. Use your stock feed as a return. But it's not needed I guess.

 

[Joe Cool]

I've been told by several respected members in the ECMTuning community that the winter blend is perfectly safe with the 16G at any level of boost. There are members who have run 10's on the winter blend, made 700 whp, and run 40 PSI. You should be more than fine.

I am running a similar setup on 1150cc FIC's. Learn from my mistake and purchase some 2000cc+ Hi-Z injectors so you will never need to upgrade again and you can idle like a kitten's purr even on 91.

 

[tazndrew04]

running e85 and i get it from a bp station and its really clean when i pull the injectors,no problems,i dont think i can ever go back to 91 or 93 even though im going to be running e85 and meth next spring/summer i cant wait,i have stock lines,afpr,255 and 1050s and i have no problems yet,in the winter i use fuel stabilizer in and in the spring it starts right up so i love the smell also kinda smells like a grape flavor

 

[justinschmiidt]

I've been told by several respected members in the ECMTuning community that the winter blend is perfectly safe with the 16G at any level of boost. There are members who have run 10's on the winter blend, made 700 whp, and run 40 PSI. You should be more than fine.

I am running a similar setup on 1150cc FIC's. Learn from my mistake and purchase some 2000cc+ Hi-Z injectors so you will never need to upgrade again and you can idle like a kitten's purr even on 91.

ECMlink isn't currently setup to run 2150's on pump gas, the fuel adjustments just aren't there yet on the software end. Atleast last time I updated they weren't?

 

[SHaman]

How many people are coming out financially ahead with E85? We don't get it here, but it just seems like a lot of headache.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

How many people are coming out financially ahead with E85? We don't get it here, but it just seems like a lot of headache.

I don't think it has anything to do with saving money. People run E85 so they can run higher timing and more boost. E85 doesn't knock.

In my opinion, shattered pistons and bent rods would be a bigger headache. From what I've read about it, you will gain a financial advantage if you take into account how much it would cost to get comparable power on pump gas.

 

[SHaman]

I guess coming from the WI camp, I can't see using high octane fuel in a DD unless you are always beating on it.

 

[EclipticalGS]

Summer Blend: Class 1 (min 79% ethanol)
Spring/Fall Blend: Class 2 (min 74% ethanol) <<Tune for this blend....

Winter Blend: Class 3 (min 70% ethanol)

If you tune for Class 2, when winter comes and ethanol % drops, it wont matter because your IAT's will be lower, when summer comes, you should be fine @ 12.5 afr 18-23*, because ethanol % will be higher....At least thats what we do here in Michigan....It tends to be -10* in the winter, and 100* in the summer....So we try to find the healthy medium.

Good luck

 

[skatershawn]

run two wally's with 950cc injectors? WHY??
and you can get a way with no upgrading the fuel line but it always a better choice to upgrade it!

Running 950s on e85 will be like running around 640cc of reg 91/93 and would give you a decent power boost and the ability to run a higher psi, while saving the environment..(better then fossil fuel)..

and seeing that your in cali.. i wouldn't expect the conditions to charge hugely in temp inless you up northern cali!

 

[spawn87]

i want to thank everyone for all the great info you have helped greatly.

a professional shot (full function technologies) will be doing the tunning for me... so ill tune for medium blend and go from ther... one last question can i fill the car with ethanol and still drive it to shop (abt 120 miles) and be ok or just have them fill there somehow?

 

[justinschmiidt]

i want to thank everyone for all the great info you have helped greatly.

a professional shot (full function technologies) will be doing the tunning for me... so ill tune for medium blend and go from ther... one last question can i fill the car with ethanol and still drive it to shop (abt 120 miles) and be ok or just have them fill there somehow?

If you think you're capable to scale your air fuel ratios well enough to travel 120 miles then go for it, other wise just drive there with 1/4 tank of gasoline in your tank and empty it when you get there. You can fill it up with e85 once you're closer to that neck of the woods.


You can disconnect the feed line at the rail and activate the pump and drain the tank of your gasoline to get it ready for ethanol worst case scenario.

 

[Joe Cool]

ECMlink isn't currently setup to run 2150's on pump gas, the fuel adjustments just aren't there yet on the software end. Atleast last time I updated they weren't?

ECMLink is set up to run any size of injector you would like. A high impedance injector will typically require a deadtime of 0 and you have the ability to adjust global fuel to what is required.

 

[standard235]

If you think you're capable to scale your air fuel ratios well enough to travel 120 miles then go for it, other wise just drive there with 1/4 tank of gasoline in your tank and empty it when you get there. You can fill it up with e85 once you're closer to that neck of the woods.


You can disconnect the feed line at the rail and activate the pump and drain the tank of your gasoline to get it ready for ethanol worst case scenario.

It's not that difficult. Change your injector compensation so you are adding roughly 33% fuel. It will be close enough to drive there, just be nice to it.

 

[justinschmiidt]

It's not that difficult. Change your injector compensation so you are adding roughly 33% fuel. It will be close enough to drive there, just be nice to it.

Every setup is different. My colt runs at roughly 26% more fuel than gasoline. If I went on your general calculation I would be in serious trouble on a 120 mile road trip.

To each their own though...... I'm very picky with my tune and I don't ever take chances that aren't worth the risk over the reward.

 

[EclipticalGS]

well jsut as long as he can get his mid throttle afr's to around 16 he should be fine....I ran 16.5-17 cruising afr, just as long as he doesnt beat on it to the shop, i dont see why he wouldnt make it.

Good luck man

 

[spawn87]

yeah im probly gana look into renting a trailer and getting a friend with a truck then ... if it turns out to much pain ill just tune it to 91 pump and get the e85 later.
i just want to get my car on the road again.