Air Filter On Turbo [Merged 10-7]

[mattspyder]

i was looking at the gallery and i noticed this one dude has the air filter hooked right up to the turbo, no piping or anything just connected it right off the turbo. can we do this with our cars, my guess is it would trip the air sensor, and cause the check engine light to come on!!

 

[jaredgsx]

i am not trying to argue with you, but you are showing the difference in cool air and hotter air going into a turbo, of coruse there will be a difference, but what does that mean for over all horsepower, and engine work. I dont believe that it creates a notiable amout. I could be totally wrong i am just using my logic here, but i would love to find out for sure

 

[pnishr]

i am not trying to argue with you, but you are showing the difference in cool air and hotter air going into a turbo, of coruse there will be a difference, but what does that mean for over all horsepower, and engine work. I dont believe that it creates a notiable amout. I could be totally wrong i am just using my logic here, but i would love to find out for sure

most people would say 10* intake (into combustion) = 1% in HP. so, that may not be much, until of course you take into consideration it's WAY more than 10* warmer in your engine bay under your exhaust manifold, behind all your heat transfer devices (radiator and IC) than it is in your fender. run your car for 30minutes and open up the hood. it's not 100* I've considered slow roasting brisket under my hood. besides, as everybody said, hotter in= hotter out. which means your IC is absorbing more heat and losing it's ability to soak up even more. so 40* hotter into the turbo means even more heat to the IM. even if it ends up as 50* warmer, that's 5%. on a STOCK car, that's 10hp. I'm rambling now. but it's pointless not to just run a pipe to the stock filter placement or further. the only reason i could see of even doing it the way in the picture is for looks/laziness of getting another pipe in there. anyway, rock on.

EDIT: This is of course talking about a "street" car who's parts will have time to get hot and absorb heat. On a car that does 11 seconds of hard driving every 2 hours, it's not that big a deal.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

^Exactly.

And like I said, its exaggerated with F/I cars because unlike NA in which a 50* increase in intake temp means a 50* air temp increase at the manifold, a 50* increase into the turbo is going to end up as a 60-70* increase at the manifold because of how the turbo heats the air.

I duno about you but my car on an 80* day feels worlds slower than it does on a 50* degree night.

So you figure on the 80* day its probably sucking underhood air that's WELL over 150*. That gets heated to probably 300* (forgive the gross inaccuracy I'm just making a point). That's a 150* increase. Now imagine if I had a CAI and it was actually pulling in 80* air. That 80* air isn't going to get a 150* increase. It will probably be more like 110*ish. So the air coming out is now only 190*. That's a far cry from 300* and based on 1% hp per 10* and if my calculator is working correctly that's a 23whp increase on my car just from lowering the intake temp.

DISCLAIMER: Spare me the corrections, those were loose guesses and I didn't actually use the real formulas. But I think it gets the concept across.

 

[CanadianTalon]

Not to argue, but "cold" air coming into an air filter using a CAI may be 90 degrees, and that same air after blowing through the radiator using no CAI may be 100 degrees. The turbo heats this air up by like 500 degrees. The difference in 590 degrees total and 600 degrees total is not noticable.

CAI on a turbo car = inefficient spending

My setup works great. Check out gallery.

If by "500 degrees" you mean like "200 degrees TOPS", then yeah.

I know it's not a DSM, but on a buddies honda putting the filter in the fenderwell was worth 20 degrees in air temps on a long wot pull. Makes a BIG difference when you're sitting in there in traffic too, as the turbo would just soak up all the hot air sitting in the engine bay and you'd see some knock if you tried to hit it off the line.

 

[TT_NS]

what are the benefits and disadvantages for putting a K&N directly on the turbo?

 

[CHnKTSi]

advantage: shorter run for faster air flow, less restrictive
disadvantage: more heat from turbo itself, no place for MAF.
are you trying to do this on MAF based car?
i believe this is only done on MAP based engine.

 

[RyanTSi]

Throwing the ECU for a loop because It doesnt understand where the MAS went ....
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

No really though. Ive seen 50 trims with nothing but a piece of what looked like pantyhose for a filter. But this is like, exhaust before the drivers side tire, race only, 580whp Ill eat your a$$ setups.

Think of the location you would be pulling your ambient air from. DIRECTLY in front of the exhaust manifold. The compression of the air by the turbo already heats the air, which creates the need for an intercooler. And an intercooler by itself (CRYO2 is different) will never lower air going to the TB to a temp the same as ambient air, therefore the turbo will not EVER operate at 100% effeciancy.

Now look where it pulls air in the stock location. Minus the ### horn, Ridiculouslly restrictive can, and those little blankoff plates that make no sense... thats the best place to pull cool air, except for where the IC is... which is why the IC is where it is. Unless you stright up live life a 1/4 mile at a time, the gains are not worth the cost, in addition to relocating the MAS (which by itself isnt a bad move, but keep the intake pipe).

Basically, you would be sucking hot air into the turbo, and risking heatsoak on the IC, because the only thing to force air into the intake is the radiator fan... which already blows hot air to start with. It could be 40 outside, and at normal operationg temps your mas would always see like 120 as ambient.

Straight drag...
Streetable...

My $.02......
And my cars broken anyway.. so listen to me at your own risk.

Ryan

 

[CHnKTSi]

my car is broken as well. so i guess listen to me own your own risk goes for me too

 

[snowmansdsm09]

Well from someone who has done this I can tell you a lil something.

I have a Big Killer T28,

I had a filter directly on the turbo and for some reason it actually felt slower... maybe placebo effect, or could be because pulling in hotter air being right next to engine.
Also turbo sound was non-existant.

I put a 2.25 Piping on the turbo, seemed to slow down my car even worse then straight filter.

Put a full 3'' intake and car seemed faster/ more responsive PLUS turbo became MUCH louder.

NONE OF THESE WERE DYNOED, nor would i waste the money dynoing something stupid like this. Everything was probably placebo effect, except for the turbo noise part.

 

[RyanTSi]

my car is broken as well. so i guess listen to me own your own risk goes for me too

WTF

I dont quite catch what yer saying here....

And Im from Alabama


And drinking

But no really... WTF

Ryan

 

[Flip_4G63]

I KINDA disagree with what ryan said. You will not have any hotter air (1) Beacuse the turbo is hot right. Air is there it will get hot also that is why there is a intercooler.. cool shit back off. (2) Moving the filter a whole foot in the engine bay will not do much your pipe sits in that same spot..... Better air flow YES but you could get close to the same affect having a larger intake pipe. Maby even heat wrap it if you want. IF you are running the stock turbo good luck finding some kind of filter to fit it.. You might try a breather filter.

IMO i see no need for this being done unless you have lets say a 3" turbo inlet even then WHY? Get a 4" intake pipe and have fun..

 

[RyanTSi]

I KINDA disagree with what ryan said. You will not have any hotter air (1) Beacuse the turbo is hot right. Air is there it will get hot also that is why there is a intercooler.. cool shit back off. (2) Moving the filter a whole foot in the engine bay will not do much your pipe sits in that same spot..... Better air flow YES but you could get close to the same affect having a larger intake pipe. Maby even heat wrap it if you want. IF you are running the stock turbo good luck finding some kind of filter to fit it.. You might try a breather filter.

IMO i see no need for this being done unless you have lets say a 3" turbo inlet even then WHY? Get a 4" intake pipe and have fun..

Yeah... But look at the area your sucking air from. Right in front of the manifold (which gets red hot) vice an area wher you can pull high speed ambient air from the bottom.

Think about it. Other than bad breath, If you are 2 feet away from me and I blow at your face, it feel cool right? If Im right in your face, it feels hot. Same theory applies here. The greater distance the air travels, the cooler it will be.. going into a turbo which during the compression is going to heat it up ALOT. But.... The colder it starts, the colder it will be coming into the IC... which afterward will be cooler, denser, and more... bangable in the compression chamber. But still nowhere near ambient.

You are correct though, the bigger the pipe, the colder the air, but the more force-in, or suck in youll need. So you either need the Filter in the airstream (ie headlight out) or a turbo that pulls more (50 trim).

Either way you look at the situation... you have to make corrections somewhere.

The only, not have to do sh*t option is leave it where it is, dont get a too big for what you want turbo, buy hard pipes, and be happy.

Im still running a SMIC, but of course, a FMIC would result in much lower, denser, Air Temps..... but would cause a bigger dent in my wallet

Do what you will, But I wouldnt steer you wrong on purpose....
Unless Im just plain crazy

Ryan

 

[Flip_4G63]

TRU but it's heating up already so screw it (if you where doing this) I would NOT! That would look real stupid IMO. Now if you had a car like my friend just built (pic below) that would look dead sexy! Think of how this would look a TINY filter hanging out with your radiator and water lines... goofy is all i have to say.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[RyanTSi]

Whats that? a Supra?

IMO every degree counts man. The lower the temps coming into the intake, the higher the whp, the higher the temps, the better the chance of heat soak.

Your boy has those pipes of just for show right? I dont know crap about supras, but I do know he doesnt run it like that right? Its set up to show?

Ryan

 

[Flip_4G63]

Yes that is a supra. NO he has the filter. If you look close you will see he has NO coolant hose bottom of pic.. We just put that motor in there here are a few more pics of that

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Here is it with the filter on

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Defiant]

You'll probably find out the turbine benefits from some intake lead-in, just as they put velocity stacks on carburetors. An organized column will feed better than just whatever falls down the drain from whatever direction.

 

[RyanTSi]

And Your boy is also pulling from behind the passenger light, angled down for a better pull in, vice mine (and most that have hacked the can, that are pulling it from the bottom of the can. Im sure if you log it both ways youll see the pipe gets better IATS.

Ryan

 

[TT_NS]

the filter would be going on a 56trim PTE turbo. I have the GM MAF on the upper intercooler pipe so im not worried bout that at all. So basicly it comes down to will the air be the same temp no matter what or will it be hotter when pulling air from behind the radiator?

 

[Flip_4G63]

I would not do it! Get your self a 4" intake and be done with it! Yes temps will be higher if you do it.

 

[RyanTSi]

Yeah bro. Like i said. Scrap the idea and hit up a fat intake pipe. And if you have a FMIC, you can put that sucka down further, or even out of the engine bay, bringing in straight ambient temps, and much lower IATS. Go with the pipe dude.

Ryan

 

[gsxtreme1987]

Ok this is probably a stupid question... but


Ive seeen some people hook up their Cone filters directly on to the Turbo without a Intake Pipe..
So i was wondering if that would make a difference in power gains or would help the car in any way.. or would it lower the performance?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

You can only do that if you have a MAFT Blow Thru setup. I wouldn't do it anyways because the filter would be too close to the ground and wanna suck up some water as well as it being within inches of a 1300 degree exhaust manifold. You could be buy on a 16g or something like that but a 50 trim would probably about suck the filter shut. You need the intake pipe to relocate the filter to somewhere where there is cooler air than right next to the turbo.

 

[spoolup]

it wont suck the filter shut since the same amount of airflow is still passing thru the filter weither it be on the intake pipe or on the turbo itself. But I do not like this approach, like the previous memeber mentioned. There is alot of heat there. Not only the exhaust mani, but from the air that passes thru the radiator. Drive your car a bit then let it idle and wait for the fans to turn on. CAREFULLY stick you hand down there and feel the temp of the air around there.

I run the translator "blowthru" style and am using the normal non-mas intake pipe from dejon, just I placed it on upside down so the filter sits where the stock side mount use to go. Then rigged up a brace to support the pipe a bit. My car never sees rain and well, only goes out every other weekend. So I am not concerned with sucking water. But my car also does not have a heater, blower, AC, stereo, practically any interior piece other than the plastic panels, but then I removed so of the sounddeading and what not to make the car as light as possible. SO its not really a daily but I could drive it that way if I need to. Just is boring and not very tempature controlled.

I would run a normal intake pipe (to stock location) and build a heat shroud to give it the coldest possible air you can and prevent heat transfer from the engine.

 

[justin0469]

So I am gettin ready to get all my stuff together to buy all I need for the GM MAF setup. I see alot of guys just strap a filter right on the turbo inlet. I would think that would have significantly higher intake temperatures then if you kept some kind of intake tube further away from the engine. Anyone want to share their experience or thoughts?

Also, know of any place to buy all the piping + MAF as a kit (no MAFT)?

 

[somdturbo]

I wouldnt put all that hot engine air right into my 3065...just my thoughts. I assume it would not hurt it but your engine should run 100% better with cool air... good luck

I bought my gm maf couplers from SBR. U have to call them to order it. Ebay the MAF itself.