60-1 users, what supporting mods?

[sweet97]

SBR did it and the dyno run is on this site buy forgot what the title of the thread was exactly. I will look though. Point being a 60-1 is capable of much better than a 403. Mark

PS: Did a search on 400hp and SBR and it came up. I'm computer illiterate so you'll have to go look or maybe someone can paste it here or a link to it. mark

 

[diambo4life]

SBR did it and the dyno run is on this site buy forgot what the title of the thread was exactly. I will look though. Point being a 60-1 is capable of much better than a 403. Mark

PS: Did a search on 400hp and SBR and it came up. I'm computer illiterate so you'll have to go look or maybe someone can paste it here or a link to it. mark

A 16G is NOT going to put down 400AWHP on a DSM. I don't care what SBR's car dynoed. I agree with you though, A 60-1 should (and has) put down 500+AWHP on a DSM with no difficulty.

 

[sweet97]

Well I bought a sockted ECU an ordered a keydiver chip. No sure how long it takes to get the chip but I hope for 2 things, easier tuning and stretching the 660's I have.
Jeff O. the keydiver guy said most 750cc injs out there are junk, not sure what to go with. I also need to try to identify my 660's asI thought they were Denso's which he said usually flow more than their rated flow. Mark

 

[gimmie11s]

A 16G putting down 403HP to the wheels? You guys need to be a little serious.

well ya... didnt you hear about that new 16g that flows 50 lbs/min!?.... :laugh:

 

[highintenzity4]

Hey guys with the 60-1 will the 650cc injectors be enough?

 

[sweet97]

650's will be OK to a point but not come close to fully utilizing the turbo. The point they wll be good to has yet to be determined by my mods. I have 650's, a Walbro 255 pump with an AFPR which will help stretch the inj's a bit. My 3" intake is a true cold air with the K&N located in the spot the stock IC once resided. A Spearco 2-221 FMIC now cools the charge. The EVO3 exhaust manifold is ported along with the EVO3 02 housing. A tuners member, ANCONOVER, is building me a custom 3" turbo back exhaust.
I bought a socketed ECU and am having a keydiver chip burned for the 650's along with some of Jeff's special tricks!
For tuning I have a wideband A/F meter, EGT gauge, Scanmaster(which allows me to see 02 voltage and knock sum as it occurs in real time or a number of pieces of data over a dozen in all including timing advance) and a MAF-Translator. The keydiver will have an extended map allowing over 16-17 psi on pump without knock according to Jeff.
Once I have tuned the 650's to their max I will go to 750's or Denso 720's which should do the job according to the chip man, Jeff.
Will 650's work, yes. Will they work satisfactoraly, no. They will work fine for the tuning exercise and Jeff said they would be good for 400HP. Mark

 

[sweet97]

I just read a reply on another site and the writer said the 60-1 was an awesome turbo that burned the tires at the track in the first 3 gears using 650cc inj's. Assuming this car is FWD that is good news also because i did hear the 60-1 flows a lot of air at low boost. big turbo's are usually good for FWD cars because of difficulty hookng. The 60-1 must flow a good deal of air at low boost like i heard! Mark

 

[gimmie11s]

Once I have tuned the 650's to their max I will go to 750's or Denso 720's which should do the job according to the chip man, Jeff.
Will 650's work, yes. Will they work satisfactoraly, no. They will work fine for the tuning exercise and Jeff said they would be good for 400HP. Mark

please dont make commments like this until you have experienced the question yourself. "will 650s be enough" has been beaten to death a million times. Whoever is asking this needs to learn to READ.

If you want more than high 120 mph range then buy bigger injectors. Basically with proper driving, 650s will take you to the 10s. Ive gone 11.6 with them with more to go.

this is all on race gas of course. if you want big pump numbers, look for 720s or better.

 

[91gvr4]

what about with a 2g maf, 650s, 255 lph, afpr, and chipped ecu on one? Any advice?

 

[highintenzity4]

Im going to be using c16 race gas and I have the dsmlink. I am looking for big numbers. Is that statement true about the 400hp? Well Im thinking of going for the 750s.

 

[sweet97]

what about with a 2g maf, 650s, 255 lph, afpr, and chipped ecu on one? Any advice?

Amusing. Gimme 11's and 91gvr4. Go ahead and run 650's. 550's would "work". kinda lie the guy a page back so that got 403HP on race at 28PSI. BHP=10.86x(lbs/min)
403=10.86x(lbs/min) so 403/10.86=lbs/min he was flowing 37lbs/min. An EVO 16G flows 38lbs/min. whatever he had, whether 650cc inj's or a 2" exhaust with cat it WORKED. A 60-1 can flow 60lbs/min. Point being that something could work but not be the best choice. My 650's were OK for my RS49/50 trim that flowed 49lbs/min. Each car is different. I will end up with a 720-750. This forum is a medium for open discussion. I think it's great that gimme can do 11's with race fuel. That along with some other replies here are the reason I have not dumped the 650's already for larger ones. You have given me some hope that the 650's will do enough on 93 pump which I run most often though 112 is available. Once I have tuned and ran the 650's for a while and noted their duty cycle I will most likely upgrade. There is a thread with a fellow wanting to trade his GT-12 for a 16G because he was frustrated with the knock and high duty cycle at 15-20 PSI on 91 octane. He has the exact wheel the 60-1 has. I will try to find it for referrence.Thanks, Mark

 

[sweet97]

Check out the thread "B16G question..." here on this forum. he has a GT=13, same wheel as a 60-1 except ball bearing. Mark

 

[gimmie11s]

hmmmm.. i fail to see the point of your post #61.

everything boils down to what a persons goals are. If you want to make 450 whp when you're at the track... dont sacrifice your every day drivability with 750s or larger.

If you want to make 450whp everywhere you go all the time (read- PUMP gas)... well, buy a stand-alone system and throw in some 800cc+ because youll need them.

about the guy with the BB 60-1, he needs to either iron his setup out or PAY someone to tune it for him.... its really not that hard to do... people tend to get too far out of whack with all the gadgets available to DSMers these days.

i tune my car with an AFC and fuel pressure. thats it. Stock ECU and 2g maf.

Adding chips and MAFT's and everything else just trashes the factory maps. The factory placed the maps in our ECU's for a reason. That reason is not because they suck and dont work. The idea is to ride along them just as long as you can until you have to tweek them just a hair in order beat things like fuel cut and knock.

happy tuning

 

[liquordrunk]

So your saying 850's as an average of both cases for track and daily driving?

 

[gimmie11s]

no, what im saying is, "what are your goals?"


850's is outrageous on a daily driver unless you are trying to make 600whp everytime you want to go to VONS.

 

[liquordrunk]

I can understand that since i will be runnin a 2.3 myself and i already have 650s' from runnin the 20g and i am not wanting to upgrade. But I will be running a FPRED and i am hoping to hit 500+ but I do want to keep my 650's and gimie11's you run them also i didnt look at your mods but what is your set up. I will not be runnin at the track that much this is my daily and its gonna be fun daily

 

[anconover]

If you can properly control the injectors there should be no problem. I run 880cc's on my daily driven car with a keydiver chip burned for them. Car runs no different than it did with 450's.

 

[sweet97]

If you can properly control the injectors there should be no problem. I run 880cc's on my daily driven car with a keydiver chip burned for them. Car runs no different than it did with 450's.

That's the way to do it. The safc does the same as the mAFT-they trick the ecu as to how much air is coming into the engine which affects the stock maps. A chip burned to compensate keeps the factory maps. Running a 60 trimon 660's limits it's ability to perform at it's potential. I was maxing 550's with a EVO 16G. An EVO flows 38lbs/min. a 60 trim flows 60 lbs/min. That's 50% more than the EVO. If you can run in the 11's with 650's that is great. I hope y car does that. If I get my IDC much over 80% 750's will go in. If nyone wants to buymy 650's which ae not even a year old $200. will get you them. My keydiver is on it's wayse for 650's but I will gladly send it right back to be burned for a set of 750's or larger. Mark

 

[v8s_are_slow]

if i had to do it all over again i'd go bigger than the 650's. probably 720's or something cause my duty cycle is at 97% or so. although i was told many times before i got them that 650's would be good, i should've gotten bigger just to play it safe. sucks paying $$$$ and then not have enough fuel ya know?

 

[gimmie11s]

A chip burned to compensate keeps the factory maps.

Wrong. A chip burned to compensate is exactly the same as leaning the shit our of your AFC. You have to tell the ECU the car is getting less air so it keeps those huge injectors open LESS. burnt chips, MAFT, and AFC all do the SAME thing. Think about it... the idea of burnt chip is so you do NOT have to adjust an AFC to compensate for injectors... THE CHIP DOES IT FOR YOU.

Running a 60 trimon 660's limits it's ability to perform at it's potential.

Wrong. Buschur and crew (tym switzer) ran 10 seconds with 550cc injectors.

I was maxing 550's with a EVO 16G. An EVO flows 38lbs/min. a 60 trim flows 60 lbs/min. That's 50% more than the EVO.

Wrong. a 60 trim flows 52 lbs/min. Thats 38% more than a 16g, not 50. 60 trim and 60-1 are two completely different wheels.....


You really need to step away from the computer and stop injesting all of the bullshit you read on here. At least learn to decipher the truth from the crap. Get out and get some REAL experience with your car. I want you to physically go out and max out your 650cc injectors yourself. Stop reading about how people with 14b's are doing it and do it yourself.

There should not be one car on this board with 750cc injectors or larger making less than 500 wheel horsepower. I know they exist though and the truth is they are wasting fuel economy, drivability, and WOT performance just to say that they "needed" those huge injectors..... To each his own i guess, thats my opinion.

 

[diambo4life]

Oh, maybe I should add that Mike Rizzotti ran his FP RED (a 60-1 for those that don't know) with Denso 660cc's and a VPC/GCC. He trapped a best of 132mph and ran a best 10.99.

Still think you need those 1600cc's?

 

[gimmie11s]

Oh, maybe I should add that Mike Rizzotti ran his FP RED (a 60-1 for those that don't know) with Denso 660cc's and a VPC/GCC. He trapped a best of 132mph and ran a best 10.99.

yes sir. there are countless examples of 650cc cars going FAST !

That car was making in the neighborhood of 540whp. but ya, the 660s must have been limiting the potential there.

 

[diambo4life]

yes sir. there are countless examples of 650cc cars going FAST !

That car was making in the neighborhood of 540whp. but ya, the 660s must have been limiting the potential there.

Dom, he dynoed 494AWHP (maybe a little more with some tuning at the track,) but still, he was nowhere near maxing those injectors IMO. That was a 7cm^2 RED too btw.

 

[anconover]

I in no way agree that big injectors are necessary, and i do think that people go overboard (i know i did but im a total pumpgas whore). But the larger injectors from personal experience didnt ruin my fuel economy, drivability or WOT performance. I still get the same 19mpg i use to, the car is still daily driven. If you have a method of tuning for a large injector, i.e dsmlink, keydiver chip, AEM, i see no reason not to go big. Obviously its going to be a total nightmare with an s-afc and or maft. Not thats its necessary, but with PTE's being the same price for any size from 650-880cc's i dont see why not.

 

[pianoman]

So what about people that wanna make power on pump gas? Obviously a smaller injector is needed for running race gas, and a larger one is needed for pump gas.

Also in regards to a burnt chip, I was always under the impression that running a burnt chip is always better then using an afc since you can have deadtime compensation for larger injectors, and that the safc sends false information to the ecu, in which the ecu cannot run the correct map for whats going on. So if you get your epom reflashed your letting the ecu do what it was orignally intended to do, but with the correct information so it can do its job correctly. No?