6 bolt vs. 7 bolt [merged] 6bolt 7bolt 6-bolt 7-bolt six bolt seven bolt

[asdfzxc]

All 6 bolt vs. 7 bolt threads are merged here.
How do I tell if I have a 6 bolt or a 7 bolt?
Will x part from a 6 bolt fit a 7 bolt?
Will x part from a 7 bolt fit a 6 bolt?
Which one is better?
How do I swap my x bolt for an x bolt?

What is the difference between 6-bolt and 7-bolt engines (aside from the obvious - 6 vs. 7 bolts connecting the flywheel )

Is there an advantage over either of the two engines?

Thanks,

-Mike

 

[95gskid]

Wow, I know we are all entitled to our own opinions, but wow, I really have to disagree with that...The bigger the port, the more airflow, with more airflow you have a more efficient, more h/p capable turbo.
how could the ports be "too big"?

hahah too big??? i'm with you i thought the reason ppl ported heads was to make the ports "bigger"???? maybe we are missing something

 

[92dsmtalon]

hahah too big??? i'm with you i thought the reason ppl ported heads was to make the ports "bigger"???? maybe we are missing something

Haha, yeah, I guess so, oh well, I'll just keep with my idea of bigger is better for the ports, and Im sure I'll be just fine, .

 

[tkelly27]

Wow, this is three months old, but there is some misinformation slung around here.

The purpose of porting a head is to take out the defects from the factory. If a port is too small, then they are made bigger. In high power applications welds will be added to the port floor to raise it, effectively making the port smaller but making the angle of attack to the valve better. Head porting is as many parts art as it is science. If it was simply making it bigger, any modifications to that end would make power. A friend of mine with a flow bench has flowed ported head that were worse than the factory casting CFM wise. CFM was all he could measure, velocity and turbulence come into play as well.

Head Porting Principals
Basic Head Porting Walk-thru...... - JDM Honda Civic | Forums
Think Fast--Intake Porting For Motorcycles and Cars

As far as I understood it, bigger is better, as long as it's a better bigger. Maybe this concept changes under boost, I'm sure somebody knows, but they aren't telling : D

 

[rs6bolt92laser]

my 92 tsi says may of 92,and it has a 6 bolt jeffgst

 

[rayrayx411]

i have a 95 2g talon tsi fwd. the car has no motor. what is the cheapest way to buy another motor.

 

[awild]

6 bolt right? What's the 7th smaller hole do?

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[v8s_are_slow]

6 bolt right? What's the 7th smaller hole do?

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That's for the alignment dowel pin where the flywheel bolts up.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Okay, I just can't sit here and read 32 pages of all the same stuff over and over, "why is a 6 bolt better", etc. Hoping this is a question that hasn't been answered a zillion times already though.

Were the 98-99 blocks redesigned so as to not crankwalk like the earlier motors? Heard this was the case but I dunno and I'm trying to find the answer on that. Kinda wanna build a 7 bolt motor so that I can just drop it in without a bunch of modding. Figure if the motor was built "correctly" with new bearings and all, that I'd be safe anyway. If the 98-99 blocks were different, I'm wondering what exactly was different. Crank? Bearings? Block itself?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Okay, I just can't sit here and read 32 pages of all the same stuff over and over, "why is a 6 bolt better", etc. Hoping this is a question that hasn't been answered a zillion times already though.

Were the 98-99 blocks redesigned so as to not crankwalk like the earlier motors? Heard this was the case but I dunno and I'm trying to find the answer on that. Kinda wanna build a 7 bolt motor so that I can just drop it in without a bunch of modding. Figure if the motor was built "correctly" with new bearings and all, that I'd be safe anyway. If the 98-99 blocks were different, I'm wondering what exactly was different. Crank? Bearings? Block itself?

3 piece bearings were used in the 98-99 blocks and possibly in some late 97's. This, supposedly, reduced the chances CW.

Also, on 97+ engines, the CAS is where the 1g CAS is, but in 95-96 the CAS is behind the intake cam gear.

Those are the main differences off the top of my head. Hope that helps.

 

[jirwinracer]

hey i am looking at buying a 93 talon tsi awd. the kid says the motor is a 2g and its been rebuilt and its not original motor, it sounds like original blew up and now its a worthless car from the sounds of it. my problem is deciding whether to buy it or not. after he had it rebuilt it started once and ran fine but now wont start. my question is what is this car supposed to be? a 6 or 7 bolt flywheel? what starter? is clutch starting it bad when the electric starter dont start it? is it a 1g or a 2g motor? and does anyone have a clue why it wont start? he claims the engine and tranny have to be re aligned but ive heard they either fit or dont fit? I'M SO CONFUSED!

Jason

 

[JeffGST]

The 93, 94 Talon's are the 1G 7-bolt motor from the factory. From the top of my head, if your 92 DSM is built after May 1992, then you also have a 1G 7-bolt motor.

6-bolt only came from the 1989 - April 1992 DSM's.

 

[2slow4utsi]

Either engine can get crankwalk. You can tell if you have a 6/7 bolt by the oil pan if not look at the flywheel.

 

[Dsmj89]

AS mentioned before and although the phrase has been beaten to death, crankwalk is way overrated. To those who are scared and too sissy to deal with a 2g motor, then you don't need a DSM.
Drive it if it's good, mod, it, build it, work with what you have. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Worst case scenario, if the motor goes re-use all your exisitng parts on another motor since they are interchangeable, if it doesn't go out, quit complaining.
Sorry guys had to let it out after skimming through a few pages here.

 

[awtsi90]

Hey guys I have a question to add to this it may be a simple answer but here it goes I have a set of brand new 7-bolt EAGLE ESP H-BEAMS that I got from a friend to cheap to pass up so what I wanna know is can I use them in a 6-bolt as long as i use 2g pistons because of the wrist pin size differences the 6-bolt is .826" and the 7-bolt is .865" and the weight on the 6-bolt is 575 grams and the 7-bolt is 550 grams and the end width on the 6-bolt is 1.117" and the 7-bolt is 1.038" is this the difference that wont allow me to run them from what i can find in my research thats the only differences in the after market rods OR SHOULD I SELL THEM AND BUY THE CORRECT RODS

 

[jirwinracer]

ok if a 93 talon tsi is supossed to be a 1g 7 bolt then when does the kid selling his say its a 2g? I thought 2g was 93 -95? And the "blocks" on the flywheel, are they supposed to face the transmission or engine? and what are they for. when the kid had the motor rebuilt he said it had trouble starting the first time then it never started afterwards, any clues?

 

[allwheelTSI]

ok if a 93 talon tsi is supossed to be a 1g 7 bolt then when does the kid selling his say its a 2g? I thought 2g was 93 -95? And the "blocks" on the flywheel, are they supposed to face the transmission or engine? and what are they for. when the kid had the motor rebuilt he said it had trouble starting the first time then it never started afterwards, any clues?

1g=90-94
2g=95-99

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "blocks" but I'll take it as the steps designed to space the pressure plate from the flywheel, they definitely go towards the transmission. I don't even think the flywheel would bolt on backwards.. Its really clear to see the friction surface, they're only cut on one side.

 

[BklynsDsmer]

Best setup if you want for a 7bolt is.
depending on your yr cause of cas.
98-99 block for most ppls thinking for the cause of crank walk os not just the balance shaft is also cause by the bearings, thrust bearings.

with the 95-97 the bearings use a solid solid bearing. with so much movement coming from the cranshaft causingf wear. once enough wear a peace of that bearing breaks into ure piston. and then everything from there falls apart.

 

[jirwinracer]

ok but evyone i've talked to said 1g is 89 to 92 then 2g 93 and 94 and 420 a after that... what is this car?!?!?!?!?!??? does this kid have the wrong engine in it?

 

[nyTalonTsi]

ok but evyone i've talked to said 1g is 89 to 92 then 2g 93 and 94 and 420 a after that... what is this car?!?!?!?!?!??? does this kid have the wrong engine in it?

Can't understand what your saying. But, 90-94(eclipse, talon, laser) are 1g's. 90-92.5 came with 6bolts. 92.5-94 came with 7bolts. The 2g's were 95-99(eclipse talon) (no more lasers after 94) came with 7 bolts. That 93 came with a 1g 7bolt, he could of possibly swapped in a 2g 7bolt or is full of it and doesn't know what hes talking about.

 

[jirwinracer]

Can't understand what your saying. But, 90-94(eclipse, talon, laser) are 1g's. 90-92.5 came with 6bolts. 92.5-94 came with 7bolts. The 2g's were 95-99(eclipse talon) (no more lasers after 94) came with 7 bolts. That 93 came with a 1g 7bolt, he could of possibly swapped in a 2g 7bolt or is full of it and doesn't know what hes talking about.

if i get a picture of the engine could you tell me what it is for sure? and could a 2g work in a 1g car?

 

[jirwinracer]

Can't understand what your saying. But, 90-94(eclipse, talon, laser) are 1g's. 90-92.5 came with 6bolts. 92.5-94 came with 7bolts. The 2g's were 95-99(eclipse talon) (no more lasers after 94) came with 7 bolts. That 93 came with a 1g 7bolt, he could of possibly swapped in a 2g 7bolt or is full of it and doesn't know what hes talking about.

ok would a 2g motor work in a 1g car? is there a special starter of flywheel i would need? the kid said the day he got it back it was hard to start after that he just heard the wine of the starter but it clutch starts? is his flywheel not aligned?

 

[Robb]

So I took a look at the vfaq link (How to quickly tell a 6bolt and 7bolt engine apart) and went to verify that my engine is indeed a 6 bolt engine (as I was informed). If you haven't seen my build thread, I repossessed the vehicle, a member on the forum was going to purchase it with the original engine in it, ended up not... long story.

Anyway, the front end was wrecked and it's almost finally finished.

So I took a look at the oil pan and what did I find? A nice smashed pan

I don't have the time or resources to separate the engine and transmission so, that's no luck there. Any other way to visually inspect the engine and tell the difference from the 6 and 7 bolt?

Here's the engine in the current state:

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Yes, I searched, but I'm out of ideas here Any help would be appreciated!

- Robb

 

[snowborder714]

Well, it has a 2g head.

For the block, you want to look at the oil pan flange right under the crank sprocket. If the flange is flat the whole way, it's a 6 bolt. If the flange dips down, it's a 7 bolt.

 

[zckry]

Looks like a 7-bolt to me considering it has a 2G cam angle sensor, and the intake manifold is a 2G manifold.
People usually swap heads also when they put a 6-bolt block in a 2G.

Also, for the most part, it looks completely stock (minus the exhaust mani, turbo, and wastegate) meaning they probably didn't do/have a need for a 6-bolt swap.

EDIT: Snowboarder you beat me to it.

 

[dsm-onster]

Smashed pan or not. You can still tell. If the crank case is bent up into the shape of the 6bolt then you have bigger problems and the motor isn't worth it . Look at the front case and see if it dips below the plain of the oil pan flange. If it does it's a 7bolt.

EDIT: Damnit, Brian!