456whp EVO III 16g

[4thStroke]

I am another 400+ Evo16G car that Lucas had his hand in

430hp/417tq. Boost controll is as simple as... there isnt any.

 

[matthewdesigns]

Boost controll is as simple as... there isnt any.

Is your wg flapper welded shut? Is the hotside ported to encourage creep? Or...?

*Edit: Just read your profile. What is 'ported for e85'...? Care to share technique or pics?

 

[byebyev8]

very interested also. I actually don't run any boost controler when i run e85 and have only been able to reach 28psi.

 

[matthewdesigns]

very interested also. I actually don't run any boost controler when i run e85 and have only been able to reach 28psi.

So do you just leave the hose off the WGA? You ought to be able to spike higher than than whether you are or not, but holding it is of course another story. My boost gauge only reads to ~32psi, but I can peg it for a second or two, then drop back to 26-27psi, which is where I want it to hold. Do you have any exhaust leaks, or a big restriction in the exhaust system?

One thing to note on this subject is that I've been logging some pulls lately, and above 26psi I'm only flowing 0.5lb/min more for an increase of 4psi pressure, whereas below 26psi, it's almost a 1:1 increase psi:lb/min. You might want to check that you are not taxing the turbo for no better amount of airflow. Ultimately, until I do some more porting (looking at you 4thStroke ), get cams, etc., I may not see any more flow.

 

[4thStroke]

Is your wg flapper welded shut? Is the hotside ported to encourage creep? Or...?

*Edit: Just read your profile. What is 'ported for e85'...? Care to share technique or pics?

The WG is not welded shut since I still needed the turbo to act somewhat normal for 92 octane. I just pulled the WG line.

Ported for e85 just means exactly what you figured, it encourages creep. I was seeing up to 38psi spike, settling to 25psi.

LucasEnglish's shop did the port work, tuning, engine, and tranny build.

My 16G was one of the ones that failed, and it was only after ~1300 miles. I have yet to send it to FP and have them check out what the cause of failure was.

 

[matthewdesigns]

Thanks for the info! What happened to the turbo? Leaking seals, snapped shaft, housing/blade contact?

Is the turbo off the car? If so, would you snap a couple of pics of the port work and post them? Or comment on the porting if not? I'm curious as to whether there's anything more than a typical enlarging of the housing.

 

[4thStroke]

We're not sure what exactly happened to the turbo. It locked up completely on me. I took it to English to see what we could figure out and Aaron was able to break it free, the nut actually broke loose at this point. When the nut is tight, it wont spin, when the nut is loose, it will spin. It never did smoke on me. There is a small knick in each one of the compressor blades, not sure what the deal was there, it injested something along the way and Im not sure if that was enough to lock it up or not. When I got the turbo, it didnt have any plugs in it, so there may have been debris in there from the start. It was brand new from FP.

The turbo is off the car, I'll see what I can do about snapping some photos.

 

[matthewdesigns]

That's odd for sure. Doesn't seem like the relative tightness of that nut ought to have anything to do with the shaft spinning freely. Hopefully they'll warranty it, whatever it was. Probably no need to tell them that it was spiking to 38psi

Thanks for offering to snap some pics...I hope you can do that!

 

[e85_4g63]

Can we see some pictures of the intake manifold? Is it a 1g or 2g stock IM that's extrude honed? More setup details if possible please. Also what about the fuel pump mod?

 

[yangtech]

Just curious as to what kind of timing you guys were running.

 

[Brianawd]

I'm not going to get into with the OP I don't know them/him, but Dude seriously you are lying about the setup. I bet there is 1000 members on this very site with that setup and don't have those kind of numbers so how did you make 50-100 more HP than all of them?? I know what CB and those guys were doing to their cars to make the power they were, and those cars were built to the sky, basically 35-40r setups with a 16g on it, so you have to be doing something similar.

Later Dr Turbo

Funny how if you can't do it then it can't be done. Maybe you can't tune for shit that is why you cant get those #s

 

[dsm-onster]

Never even noticed that post. I used to find it hard to believe that these 16Gs were making such power, but to call Lucas English a liar? . . .

It really can be possible. A turbo pushes X airflow. What one does with the airflow to make power is up to his/her skill. Pumping losses, thermal efficiency, fuel used, MBT, etc.

Look at what Brian did with the bolton gt30r

We're not sure what exactly happened to the turbo. It locked up completely on me. I took it to English to see what we could figure out and Aaron was able to break it free, the nut actually broke loose at this point. When the nut is tight, it wont spin, when the nut is loose, it will spin. It never did smoke on me. There is a small knick in each one of the compressor blades, not sure what the deal was there, it injested something along the way and Im not sure if that was enough to lock it up or not. When I got the turbo, it didnt have any plugs in it, so there may have been debris in there from the start. It was brand new from FP.

The turbo is off the car, I'll see what I can do about snapping some photos.

Sorry to get off track with this. Did you ever find out what happened here? Sounds more like a bent shaft instead of a contaminated center section.

 

[4thStroke]

I still have the turbo chillin in my garage. Ive just been too lazy to package it up and send it out.

 

[milby43]

holy shit, 40 psi spike is ####ing crazy. holding 26 is pretty ####ing rad.


i smell highway monster!

 

[dsm-onster]

Not sure about the highway moster. Holding 26psi WG held shut and a tiny turbine with one turbo is one story; holding 26psi with another asking for much more is another story. Still bada$$ results! There's no way I'm not running e85 and meth injection with no intercooler in my next 16g build.

 

[Cesar]

why not run pure ethanol?...and some nos.

 

[dsm-onster]

He is running pure ethanol. He is injecting the methanol because of how well it cools the aircharge. Denser aircharge puts more air particles in combustion chamber with out the turbo working at a higher psi to do it.

Methanol offers a MUCH higher oxygen content than ethanol too.

This is a no nitrous oxide record. Nitrous oxide provides SO much more oxygen that you can look at it as another form of supercharging or increasing displacement. You can take a t25 and run 10s with enough nitrous. This isn't the goal of most of us. Nor does it tell you the outer limits of what a particular turbo and/or build can do.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Interesting, for sake of this thread Ive been toying around w/ my car on ethanoll and by mistake due to mbc line coming off to my external gate; I hit a little over 40psi on the e316g and it was still above 30psi near redline around the time I let off; no knock. Turbo sounded pretty scary, and pulled nasty- my setup in profile.. I would never run around like that for any amount of time, but it is interesting to let it boost that high just for the numbers...

 

[e85_4g63]

Can we get details on the fuel pump mod?

 

[matthewdesigns]

Interesting, for sake of this thread Ive been toying around w/ my car on ethanoll and by mistake due to mbc line coming off to my external gate; I hit a little over 40psi on the e316g and it was still above 30psi near redline around the time I let off; no knock. Turbo sounded pretty scary, and pulled nasty- my setup in profile.. I would never run around like that for any amount of time, but it is interesting to let it boost that high just for the numbers...

I've seen as high as 16.x:1 on e85 and never knocked, so that's not surprising. I've got my mbc cranked down almost all the way, and my wastegate shimmed out 1/4", which lets me spike above 32psi and hold 25-30psi to redline depending on what gear I'm in, and it opens up an entirely new world with my E316g. Not so good for the turbo's life expectancy, but fun nonetheless

 

[Black_Bullet]

I've seen as high as 16.x:1 on e85 and never knocked, so that's not surprising. I've got my mbc cranked down almost all the way, and my wastegate shimmed out 1/4", which lets me spike above 32psi and hold 25-30psi to redline depending on what gear I'm in, and it opens up an entirely new world with my E316g. Not so good for the turbo's life expectancy, but fun nonetheless

Err speaking of that my evo3 died shortly after that.
A week after I did those 40psi no waste gate line pulls I left it at 30psi for awhile because it was night and day from my typical 25psi i used to run, it was likely around 400whp and it would only fall off 3 or 4 psi by redline at the 30psi because I have my setup to where it holds boost as long as possible.

The car definitely ripped but it only lasted a week like that. More of the story - my 16g already had more than 20 thousand miles at mid 20psi range and it was already getting in and out shaft play a little bit before I cranked it up like that. I dont know how long a fresh e316g wouldve lasted on my setup at that 30psi, or whether running w/o waste gate line is what really killed it on its own, but I have a hx40 on now and i def wont look back .

 

[matthewdesigns]

I'm starting to get suspicious of mine now, but I have not had the guts to pull off the inlet and check for play . My recently installed Evo3 intake manifold is really helping it hold steady in the 27-28psi range even in lower gears, so that's cant really be good for longevity. Not dead yet, though!

Good luck with the Holset, I've been thinking about an HX35 myself once the 16g dies, but can't swallow the extra expense for a hotside or manifold, wastegate, etc at this point. Damn economy getting in the way of more fun!

 

[Black_Bullet]

I'm starting to get suspicious of mine now, but I have not had the guts to pull off the inlet and check for play . My recently installed Evo3 intake manifold is really helping it hold steady in the 27-28psi range even in lower gears, so that's cant really be good for longevity. Not dead yet, though!

Good luck with the Holset, I've been thinking about an HX35 myself once the 16g dies, but can't swallow the extra expense for a hotside or manifold, wastegate, etc at this point. Damn economy getting in the way of more fun!

Not to go off subject but from my experience-

used Hx35 or 40 - 200 bucks
Bep bolt on housing- 250 bucks
return line and oil feed - no more than 100bucks

You can have everything installed and running with the holset for 550-600bucks.
But that still is a lot of money for the most of us, which is understandable. One of the reasons I had a evo3 for so long, never had money to upgrade.

I would check that shaft play if I were you, no reason to not know where it stands. Is it smoking? The weird thing is, I had bad in and out shaft play, but my car would only smoke a little in the beginning of a pull in full boost even when it was on its way out.

 

[dsm-onster]

Hey, you can sell teh evo3 16g used for about $300. I sold a small 16g for about that within the last year. That cuts costs in half .

 

[LucasEnglish]

Do you have any dyno sheets from bolt on HX35? I see every one taking about it but I see no dyno or track times. I have had the chance to tune 2 bolt on HX35 cars and they seem total fail to me. Spool was almost 800rpm worse then a 16g and power was about the same or even less. PTE 50trims in DSM housing seem the same way also.

I have never put one on a Dsm but it always seems the installs end up very sloppy with leaking return lines, Exhaust that does not fit right.

I will look around on here to see what I can. Was on talk last night searcing "HX35 Dyno" and all I could come up with is a ton of bench racing about the turbo.