EVO3 16g dyno results

[pboglio]

Any updates or pictures of that inlet pipe and J-pipe Pboglio ?

Never got around to the intake pipe or j-pipe. The car went on to make around 406 w.h.p. on DSMLink for what its worth. She was starting to plateau at that point as the extra boost I had available was making the fuel pump very unhappy.

I ran out of time to play with the car before #2 cylinder starting getting a little tired from the 21-23* of ignition timing and abuse. I don't think the lower cylinder pressure is affecting power but the wear is being highly accelerated from the high timing and big power, not chancing tossing a motor at this point. At the moment my DSM is my daily driver again since my 2005 Sti lost its motor. No plans to attempt a big dyno run until after a rebuild of BOTH engines

I'm out of the game for the next 1-2 years unfortunately.

 

[TurBoneRed]

E85+E316G=WTF

General theory of Pwnage.

 

[FLASH1970]

Is your profile up to date? Nice numbers too!

 

[TalonJohn94]

I'm out of the game for the next 1-2 years unfortunately.

Be careful, two years can fly by. Next thing you know, you'll be scrambling to make sure everything is in order for DSM Shootout 2013.

Or maybe you'll get the itch again sooner than that.

 

[pboglio]

Be careful, two years can fly by. Next thing you know, you'll be scrambling to make sure everything is in order for DSM Shootout 2013.

Or maybe you'll get the itch again sooner than that.

Would be nice for it to happen sooner. The Suby 2.5 Liter rebuild is top priority.
I think that one is going to be a factory short block with full rotating assembly, trying to make it as easy to swap in as possible and cheap, then most likely for reliability a rebuild of the 68HTA turbo. Had serious plans for that car but it proved simply incapable of handling any abuse. I have no confidence in Subarus for making big power.

I'd rather build the DSM like a tank and keep the power around 450 w.h.p., maybe rebuilding the tranny every other year. Lots of little things falling apart on the car that probably a mild restoration would fix. Don't know, need to check my bank account after the Sti rebuild. Definitely going to be a build for high reliability though.

 

[rowdygst]

hopeing to get 320-340whp out of my evo lll 16g on 93 pump

 

[boostdawd]

Great thread! Been over 5 years I know. Any updates?

 

[pboglio]

Final Update.....sorry for the old thread bump.

After many years of modded bliss and also frustration, the GSX went down for the final time in 2012 with a hole in the transmission case. I had been using it as a daily driver and winter beater again after the STi lunched it's motor back-in 2010. That daily driving commute must have put some extra wear and tear on the tranny/clutch and it looks like I had a clutch spring fail. This punched a 1" hole thru the transmission case which started leaking trans fluid and at that point the car was parked. The motor also had some weird ticking and loss of clutch feel during cornering which I suspected to be crank-walk as well. With the prospect of having to weld-up the transmission case, replace the clutch, and rebuild the 7-bolt motor........I decided to park the GSX for awhile until I got my finances together. I figure I got my money's worth with 140,000 of hard miles on a stock 7-bolt motor and I had always planned on upgrading the motor since I was hitting a wall at 400 w.h.p. anyway and wanted to go much higher.

At this point I needed a reliable daily driver quick and picked up a new 2012 Juke as a beater that I could still modify. Kind of regretted that purchase but it's another story. Over the subsequent years I kept putting off repairing the GSX transmission/motor and while the Juke was reliable, it wasn't cutting it in terms driving enjoyment. Come 2016 and I started getting the itch for a fast car again. For the longest time I'd wanted an EVO X and when they decided to stop production I realized this was my last chance and pulled the trigger on a new 2015 EVO X FE in blue. Having researched the after-market and how well engineered the mods were for the EVO X, I was comfortable with having it as a platform for future projects. Lesson learned here, the EVO X is stored winters and never touches the snow/salt. I pull it out of storage in April and I'm going to try an keep the mileage low but it's meant to be driven. It's sitting right now sleeping in the garage waiting on some Cosworth MX1 cams. I'm hoping to get it over to AMS for a dyno pull afterwards, shooting for 365 w.h.p. Ultimately looking for a reliable 430 w.h.p. with the Mitsu 18k turbo and possibly a sleeved short block from AMS. It's a bit of a Cadillac in terms of weight and handling, but it's an extremely comfortable daily driver and it's a fun car in its own way. I have some Recaro's getting re-upholstered and those will be installed in the future so it should be a bit more fun in the corners.

Sadly, I had come to the conclusion that I was just getting too old at 43 to continue driving an Eclipse, which I had owned new since 97. With (4) vehicles total and the driveway & the garage looking a bit crowded, I decided to see what I could about with the Eclipse. When I went to start it up for the 1st time in 4+ years, the engine wouldn't turn over. It ended up being a frozen starter but during the inspection I got under it and realized there was just too much corrosion on the strut towers, door sills, radiator support, etc. to be reliable. Sitting exposed in the driveway for that many years toke it's toll. Reluctantly, I made the judgment call to scrap the vehicle entirely due to safety concerns. The Eclipse still looked great from the outside and interior but the uni-body would have required a major restoration project that I didn't want to undertake. Additionally, many factory parts were becoming non-available and the writing was on the wall. It was a sad sight to see that tow-truck pulling my 97 GSX around the block and away for good. What the scrap yard gave me for the car was nothing but the spare $20-30 the driver had in his pocket.

Finally, I had previously stripped the vehicle of all the mods and held onto them for awhile longer with the hopes of maybe finding a clean 2g AWD/GSX in the future. But I came to the realization that I'd never get back into a DSM again and sold everything off to my fellow DSMer's. In a way it kind of felt good to move on but at least I'm back in a Mitsubishi again.

Wish you guys the best and keep the DSM spirit going!!!

 

[RipperXX]

To old for an Eclipse? WTF? What's age got to do with enjoying a fun car? Sorry you had to scrap it due to the rust.

 

[Brembo]

When you don't drive it for awhile and drive something else then when you get in a dsm you like wow this thing is small. At least that's how I feel when I don't drive mine for a while. Maybe that is what op was trying to say. That he is too old to suffer like that. He just wants a turn key car and I understand.

 

[red_devil]

Sadly this is starting to become a common thing. Right now is the best and the worst time to own a dsm. The forums have dropped in participation, vendors have stopped supporting, and cars are starting to sit. Right now is important for those that have a dam to keep them going. Every time I take mine out I get someone saying they missed theirs or wish they had fixed it.

 

[lasthope05]

You guys are nuts. My contingency plan is going rwd once I'm tired of breaking transmissions. That's really the only discontinued parts we really need. I'll never get rid of my car.

 

[Vegas Smith]

That's why I have 3 transmissions with two "built" ones in the garage.

 

[pboglio]

"To old for an Eclipse? WTF? What's age got to do with enjoying a fun car? Sorry you had to scrap it due to the rust.

Lol....probably right. But I got into DSM's back in 1991 before the entire import scene and Fast/Furious took off. I got into DSM's when it was mostly Engineers and Computer science majors buying these things....j/k. Then the 2g hit and it became more mainstream. I did love my sexy 2g but after F/F it became associated for good or bad with a certain type of driver. Then they became dirt cheap and it became a generation gap which I guess is a good thing in terms of keeping the DSM/2g alive. That was my mid-life crisis car as my ex used to say After awhile and with much experience I just could not trust it as a daily driver for those last 3-4 years. A stock Eclipse GSX would have been a different story, but the 15+ years of Chicago winter driving really took it's toll and that's where I'm doing things differently now. My EVO X and WRX STi stay garaged and they look brand new. The STi has some "slight" undercarriage surface rust from those 2 years I winter drove it but it's easily restore-able back to new. That is going to be my weekend toy. The Eclipse GSX was no match in terms of braking/high speed downforce/stability/suspension tuning. Sometimes the factory can do it better. What I learned is that I really liked buying the car as modded as possible from the factory. The STi was somewhat the case, and the EVO X is just decked out with technology. They make a great "mod" platform to start with. When you get older and need to make it to work, having a reliable car is like a major mod.......

When you don't drive it for awhile and drive something else then when you get in a dsm you like wow this thing is small. At least that's how I feel when I don't drive mine for a while. Maybe that is what op was trying to say. That he is too old to suffer like that. He just wants a turn key car and I understand.

Yep, it's amazing how big cars are now. My WRX STi and Eclipse GSX were tiny compared to the EVO X, and I do like that feeling of being closed-in but only for my weekend toy. The mistake I made with the Eclipse was cheap coilovers. Had I to do it over again I wouldn't have slammed it and maybe dropped it 1" all around with a good set of matched struts/springs (i.e. Koni or Bilsteins). That extra suspension travel would have been way more practical on the street and even the extra travel would've helped in high speed bumps/dips.

Having a turnkey car or "up-time" is really important to me. When I had my EVO X down for that (3) days installing that damned AMS downpipe, I really learned how much I hated downtime. Not really that bad with a 2nd daily driver though. I just don't enjoy working on cars like I once did, but I do still love the testing/tuning/driving aspect.

The transmission breakages do add up. I had at that point (1) stock tranny failure and (4) built tranny failures if I count the last one. The last one gave me 30k miles when I started learning how to baby it in 1st gear and not doing launches, I'd consider that good for a tranny designed for a 210 h.p. car. I don't think the tranny went but the clutch assembly failed, and I might blame that on my poor clutch adjustment/clutch drag which probably contributed to it.....lessoned learned. The engine was just dead tired at that point and I think a stock 7 bolt can only take 400 w.h.p. for so long, it was a good engine IMHO.

"Sadly this is starting to become a common thing. Right now is the best and the worst time to own a dsm. The forums have dropped in participation, vendors have stopped supporting, and cars are starting to sit. Right now is important for those that have a dam to keep them going. Every time I take mine out I get someone saying they missed theirs or wish they had fixed it.

The DSM Vendors started bailing when the EVO's came out (i.e. Buschur, etc.). When you think about the Ebay parts and owners buying the car for $3000 or less, it makes sense the vendors start chasing new revenue streams. Look at how AMS transitioned away from the EVO with the GTR and Porsches. It's only smart business.

I agree about the downward trend, it's only natural. I enjoyed the hell out of the DSMtuners forums. I'm rarely engaged much on NASIOC or Evolutionm.net and I've drifted off the forums since my DSM went down. There was something about those forums that I just didn't care much for and it never clicked for me and maybe it has something to do about getting older as well, sad to say. There is enough combined knowledge out there that pretty much the only thing I'd be contributing is a build or restoration blog or something similar. I'd have liked to do some kind of Auto-x build but that'll be the WRX STi and maybe I'll document that one on NASIOC.

I've had a lot of nostalgia for DSMs but it's also healthy to move-on after +20 years and try new things and expand my horizons as well.
I like coming back on Tuners now and again to shoot the shit though

 

[RipperXX]

If anything ever happens to mine, I'll make a kart car like the vett-karts and crap.

The DSM Vendors started bailing when the EVO's came out (i.e. Buschur, etc.). When you think about the Ebay parts and owners buying the car for $3000 or less, it makes sense the vendors start chasing new revenue streams. Look at how AMS transitioned away from the EVO with the GTR and Porsches. It's only smart business.

I agree about the downward trend, it's only natural. I enjoyed the hell out of the DSMtuners forums. I'm rarely engaged much on NASIOC or Evolutionm.net and I've drifted off the forums since my DSM went down. There was something about those forums that I just didn't care much for and it never clicked for me and maybe it has something to do about getting older as well, sad to say. There is enough combined knowledge out there that pretty much the only thing I'd be contributing is a build or restoration blog or something similar. I'd have liked to do some kind of Auto-x build but that'll be the WRX STi and maybe I'll document that one on NASIOC.

I've had a lot of nostalgia for DSMs but it's also healthy to move-on after +20 years and try new things and expand my horizons as well.
I like coming back on Tuners now and again to shoot the sh** though

Here's a question, should you ever see a 2g GSX sitting in someones yard that looks mint, with a for sale sign on it and for arguments sake it's one of those unicorns that's never been modified moderate miles and everything works, and the price is reasonable... Would you?

 

[pboglio]

Good question. I'd say a real long shot but definitely not in the next 10-15 years. It'd have to be a rust free 2g, Talon or Eclipse and driven by some old lady. Right now I'm full up on cars at the moment. I could easily spend the next 10+ years with the EVO and STi just learning and getting them where I want them to be. It kind of makes me feel like when I just started modding the Eclipse. The Eclipse had reached the point where I did everything I could and I kind of got bored with it. With the EVO X I definitely had a massive learning curve with tuning the ECM (still learning alot though) thanks to the improved ECM technology and advances in engine design. In the end, I'm a better tuner now than I would have been sticking with the Eclipse.

Having said that, I'm not super partial to the EVO X and at some point she might go once I'm done improving it a bit, depends on the resale value. I do prefer the older "analog" type cars and the 2015 EVO X is like driving a big fat computer, whereas the 2005 WRX STi is a lot more mechanical like the 2g Eclipse was. I've done the 4 cylinder/AWD combo to death with the last (4) cars. My next vehicle would be something factory fast like an Alpha Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio with 500 h.p. stock. I'd be partial to a GTR as well if they come down a bit. Sometimes you outgrow a car and move on. But for sure the Eclipse was the fastest and one of the most fun cars I've owned and taught me alot.

 

[RipperXX]

I know what you mean about being able to just hop in and go. I'm actually really enjoying this stock 98 Honda Civic HX 5 speed I bought for a daily beater. And how cars have gotten bigger, they're f***ing huge! Just look at a "mini cooper" .

 

[10's or bust]

Help me I will continue with your work. I have a bone stock 1g with no mods so farr. I still want break 499whp record for the e316g before I grow up to a bigger turbo... but I need your help seriously looking forward to hearing from you soon.

 

[pboglio]

My car is long since gone. But what you could try above and beyond what I did was high compression cams, an intake manifold upgrade, and Ethanol. I never ran a ported head but the 2g would have benefited as it would bring the boost levels down. I think with those mods I could have gotten 450 whp as I was pushing about 404 whp with out all that. I had the 272/272 Kelford cams waiting to go on but then the transmission folded shop and the block crank walked. Hope that helps.

 

[Kryndon]

My car is long since gone. But what you could try above and beyond what I did was high compression cams, an intake manifold upgrade, and Ethanol. I never ran a ported head but the 2g would have benefited as it would bring the boost levels down. I think with those mods I could have gotten 450 whp as I was pushing about 404 whp with out all that. I had the 272/272 Kelford cams waiting to go on but then the transmission folded shop and the block crank walked. Hope that helps.

Man this thread is something else. I keep coming back to it as well as other e316g setups and I just can't understand if I'm doing something wrong or if I'm underestimating my car and results. When you first compared your real dyno results to your ECMlink estimate, do you remember what correction factor you used in the HP/TQ calculation? As a standard I use 0,25 to factor the AWD loss (even though it's not a static loss, I know). I also have my exact weight and gear ratios factored in.

On 91 equivalent octane (RON95 in Europe), 25 psi of boost (38.5lb/m) @ 5800RPM I get my peak of 285 awhp, which after I factor in the drivetrain loss is 380 crank hp. The car does feel pretty quick but I keep seeing people with even less mods than me on the same turbo get nearly 80-100 more HP AT THE WHEELS. So if we assume ecmlink's dyno calcs are within 5% accurate of a real dyno, why am I making way less than literally everyone else? Also that's at 12 degrees of peak timing. Even a degree more and it starts knocking (80F aftercooled air temp which is quite alright).

I would post that log but I don't want to hijack your thread, just curious if you got any pointers if you're still hanging around here.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Man this thread is something else. I keep coming back to it as well as other e316g setups and I just can't understand if I'm doing something wrong or if I'm underestimating my car and results. When you first compared your real dyno results to your ECMlink estimate, do you remember what correction factor you used in the HP/TQ calculation? As a standard I use 0,25 to factor the AWD loss (even though it's not a static loss, I know). I also have my exact weight and gear ratios factored in.

On 91 equivalent octane (RON95 in Europe), 25 psi of boost (38.5lb/m) @ 5800RPM I get my peak of 285 awhp, which after I factor in the drivetrain loss is 380 crank hp. The car does feel pretty quick but I keep seeing people with even less mods than me on the same turbo get nearly 80-100 more HP AT THE WHEELS. So if we assume ecmlink's dyno calcs are within 5% accurate of a real dyno, why am I making way less than literally everyone else? Also that's at 12 degrees of peak timing. Even a degree more and it starts knocking (80F aftercooled air temp which is quite alright).

I would post that log but I don't want to hijack your thread, just curious if you got any pointers if you're still hanging around here.

Sounds like these guys or at least some of them are talking about e85 which is the equivalent of 109 octane compared to the 91 octane youre running...

 

[Vegas Smith]

You’re likely comparing people who have had their car’s professionally dyno-tuned on multiple 16g parts combos who are also likely running e85 or methanol injection. Your car is probably street tuned on crappy 91 gasoline with only ecmlink hp to go off of . Don’t feel so bad. Curt brown’s 16g car had like 50 dyno pulls on it (don’t quote me on that exact number).

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

It’s the 91 octane. When I made 420 at the wheels on the evo 3 16g that was on e85, and complete chance of the draw, set up was super simple. To put it into perspective I made 284 on 93 octane with 110 mixed in 1 gallon to every 4 gallons of 93 as knock was uncontrollable otherwise being 9:1 non turbo pistons and no way to control timing as I was using an SAFC for fuel control. The following year other than switching to e85 the only significant changes were BC 272 cams and ecmlink v3 so I had actual control of the timing. I also switched to an FP race manifold as my ported 2g manifold had started cracking, however the ported 2g manifold would’ve likely been better matched to the set up any difference on the dyno would’ve likely been irrelevant if noticed at all, only reason for switching is I needed a manifold and it’s what was there with little investment.

 

[Kryndon]

Okay, I feel better now. I've been tuning this car for a whole year trying to squeeze every last bit of power out of it while keeping it as a reliable daily. I guess around 300 awhp would be the ballpark for shitty fuel and similar mods then. I WISH I had access to E85 but it's not offered in my country anywhere, and I have done extensive testing with 100 octane but that only allowed me to run 1 degree of timing more, which did not justify the cost.

Might be time to throw an HX35 on it and call it.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Okay, I feel better now. I've been tuning this car for a whole year trying to squeeze every last bit of power out of it while keeping it as a reliable daily. I guess around 300 awhp would be the ballpark for shitty fuel and similar mods then. I WISH I had access to E85 but it's not offered in my country anywhere, and I have done extensive testing with 100 octane but that only allowed me to run 1 degree of timing more, which did not justify the cost.

Might be time to throw an HX35 on it and call it.

I wouldn’t sweat it too much, from the sounds of it you likely have it about as good as it’s gonna get with what you’re working with (not a bad thing, that’s fun territory for these cars on the 16g). I don’t know if you have 110 octane race gas available in your country but you could always do a secondary tune on that as well and have that when you want to play around and 91 octane for regular occasions, or meth injection is something to look into as well and pretty affordable to do. I will say 110 was $9.99 a gallon the other day when I was buying gas, don’t know what that’s equivalent to in your currency but that makes for driving around on race gas to be a pricy endeavor, meth injection however is hard to beat when e85 isn’t an option!