420a vs 4g63 Reliability

[talon2gb]

Well guys ever since I started looking for info on this forum, I've noticed that MANY 4g63 owners have reliability issues, including normal expected issues, and out of the ordinary issues. Yes I know that a 4g63 is by far a better platform to begin with, but I'm not talking about performance here, I'm talking about reliability. I've had my talon for 4 months with no problems , except minor problems that I have caused myself. A couple minutes ago I read a thread where a guy replied "I've been through a lot of similar situations like that with my old 95 GST. Lost 2 jobs thanks to that monster once the engine went, the other the whole wiring caught on fire". I mean come on loosing 2 jobs because of the damn 4g63. That just bugs me, but I would like to here some opinions. Will the 420a ever be dominant over the 4g63, even without the awd, lets compare it to a Gst. Attack me if you must but I feel in a way I'am right.

 

[ramsack]

My '90 non-turbo 4g63 never left me sit. Well almost once. The alternator died. the power steering leaked down onto it and fried it. When i took the one banjo-type fitting off i saw that someone had messed up the metal bolt by trying to force the banjo onto it, so it wasn't any fault of the car's. It had 150k on it and still had 210 across the board of compression and it just leaked oil, didn't burn it. The transmission gave out though, so i just swapped another one into it along with my shift kit, and that trans was almost newly rebuilt, and it never gave me a problem after that.

Anything will last if you take care of it. Stuff will last less when you start modding and adding power, though.

 

[BlackMount]

Anything will last if you take care of it. Stuff will last less when you start modding and adding power, though.

like i said. mine has 227k. and some mods are good\better for your engine. its more when you get greedy for power and beat the shit out of it that shit blows up.

 

[jestoy7]

I've owned both.

I owned a 420a as a daily driver for 122k miles here were my major issues:
1) Oil pickup tube broke while I was on the highway at 52k miles. Engine was replaced under warranty.
2) Blew the headgasket at 107k miles. The cause was the #7 headbolt that stretched and the head lifted.
3) Automatic Transmission was on its last leg in the 120k miles so I got rid of it.

My 98 GSX (still own) has 122k miles right now and here were the major issues:
1) Transmission had the input shaft go bad at 98k miles due to dealership installing clutch incorrectly on the previous owner. I bought it with the bad transmission and replaced with a built tranny.
2) T-25 went out at 87k on the previous owner.

I also owned a 90 Eagle Talon that I sold with 187k miles and was on the factory longblock and factory trasnmission. I had a mild 16g setup and made 300whp.

I agree with previous posters that most 4g63 reliability issues are related to people who mess with the car and do so incorrectly or beat on it.

 

[nyTalonTsi]

Its all in the maintainence. If these cars were not beat on, there would be more of them with still original engines after 200k. My friends '92 AWD had 200k on the motor, tranny, it was modded all the way, evo 3 16g, cams, fuel, fmic, exhaust running 22ibs and he ran 12.3sec passes.

He made several passes at the track everytime we went, not including the highway which i won't get into.

It was even mainly his DD, but he did all the maintenance before the mods and it got him a long way. Till the mileage on the motor caught up and he spun a rod bearing.

 

[beating4g63s]

I've owned nearly a dozen dsms, not just 1 of each, I've owned nearly 5-6 420a and 5-6 4g63 fwd/awd, and hands down I could care less what anyone ever said about either motor, the 420a will beat any version of dsm in the reliability factor, I do nearly 100k miles a year on a car, and out of all 5-6 420a dsms I've been stuck on the side of the road once in nearly 10 years, I've personally put almost 100s of thousands of miles on a 420a, driving from Port Arthur texas, to dallas, fort worth, houston, alabama, mississippi, florida, and besides flat tires, 1 time have I ever been broken down in any of the 420a's, I gave my father a 98 eclipse GS (420a) that I bought 2 months before hurricane rita. I drove that for awhiles gave it to him, he's put almost 150k miles in 2-3 years driving back and forth from port arthur texas to college station texas, and I've only ever had to go pick him up once because he broke down due to brand new waterpump failure............


4g63 are reliable don't get me wrong, I'm the first to say do maitance on a dsm, but when it comes to a 4g63 because there are more parts to fail, I am the first to overhaul the motor, replace every fuel related part, test/replace every sensor, the last dsm I owned I rebuilt everything on the motor with oem mitsu parts, that car lasted nearly 3 years of beating on it until I sold it and even then it lasted about 18 months when the next guy melted the #3 piston somehow.


420a in the reliability department, I've put 100s of thousands of miles on them and even gave one to my 70 year old father who still dailys it, hell my mom and my mother in law drove the 420a for years with little to no problems never thought twice about it starting or giving me problems when we get in..

 

[talon2gb]

Fail XD

420A is the "I cant afford a 4G63 so I'm going to get the next best thing"

around here its known as the Ricer's DSM

You'd be surprised my friend at the amount of 420a's out there that'll kick the
4g63 in the booty. I don't consider the 420a a ricer at all, it is a strong, potent engine, though it will not make as much power as the 4g63.

By the way where's Bullet.

 

[Squirrel8811]

Fast, Reliable, Cheap. Pick two. The problem is people think they can have all three and thats when you get broken cars.

 

[ramsack]

That reminds me of a sign i saw at an exhaust shop. It said what they could do there, but they could only do 2 out of 3 things for a job. It was like:

We can do 3 kinds of jobs:
Quality and fast, but it won't be cheap.
Fast and cheap, but it won't be quality.
Cheap and quality, but it won't be fast.

With cars for me:
Fast and reliable, it won't be cheap.
Fast and cheap, it won't be reliable.
Cheap and reliable, it won't be fast.

 

[talon2gb]

Fast, Reliable, Cheap. Pick two. The problem is people think they can have all three and thats when you get broken cars.

That reminds me of a sign i saw at an exhaust shop. It said what they could do there, but they could only do 2 out of 3 things for a job. It was like:

We can do 3 kinds of jobs:
Quality and fast, but it won't be cheap.
Fast and cheap, but it won't be quality.
Cheap and quality, but it won't be fast.

With cars for me:
Fast and reliable, it won't be cheap.
Fast and cheap, it won't be reliable.
Cheap and reliable, it won't be fast.

Very well said.

 

[utah7m3s]

Ive had both in my life, and i would ahve to say that my turboed car has been a lot less expensive to deal with. You have to realize that you are looking at cars that are well over a decade old they are going to break its more of just a luck thing, but when prooperly mantained i have seen not so many problems with either one of them I think where people get in trouble is when they start throwing more horsepower down, and then things start to break

 

[BlackMount]

You'd be surprised my friend at the amount of 420a's out there that'll kick the
4g63 in the booty. I don't consider the 420a a ricer at all, it is a strong, potent engine, though it will not make as much power as the 4g63.

By the way where's Bullet.

4g63T DSM = more power for cheaper IMO. you can run 20 psi (if your daring) on a stock motor.

a 420A would never hold that much boost on a stock motor IF Any.

therefore 4G63 Owns in Performance\Reliability\Price. its the best bang for the buck I say. Not To Mention 420A Eclipse\Talons run ya about 2-5K IF it hasn't been raped by Ricers.

I paid 1000$ for my Turbo Laser and I've beat 325I's E30 E36 E46, Base Model C5's, Cheap and or old Porsches, S2k's (Modded + Stocl), MK2 + MK3 Supra's.

The only thing I have done to the car since I bought it was give it a Oil Change, New Valve Cover, and turn the boost DOWN to 15 Psi.

 

[GsXdSmKingGsX]

you can make ANY engine platform a "beast" man.

 

[GsXtC21]

I paid 1000$ for my Turbo Laser and I've beat 325I's E30 E36 E46, Base Model C5's, Cheap and or old Porsches, S2k's (Modded + Stocl), MK2 + MK3 Supra's.

The only thing I have done to the car since I bought it was give it a Oil Change, New Valve Cover, and turn the boost DOWN to 15 Psi.

I have a hard time believing you beat stock/modded s2k's with an "intake" and magnaflow "muffler" at 15psi, unless you have more mods than listed in your profile i call BS... WTF

A "muffler" by itself doesnt help at all with performance, just gives noise...

you can make ANY engine platform a "beast" man.

its just that some are better suited to begin with

 

[LD25Delta9]

My turn.

I, like many posters in this thread, have owned both. The 420a wins hands down...and from performance level as well...let me explain:

If it all boils down to maintenance, It is easier to maintain a NA car than it is a Turbo. Less parts, Less to maintain.

According to manufacturer's specs:
The 4g63-t comes stock with 212 base HP 11-14 lbs of boost.
The 420A comes stock with 140 base HP with no boost.

For the price of a good used GS-T, we'll say 3800, you can buy a good used 420a, we'll say 2100 and 1400 for a good turbo DIY job. 2100+1400 =3500 Now that's 3500 dollars for a car that runs less boost(8lbs) and has the same, if not more HP than the 3800 dollar car. This was proven to me by a friend that had his 420A dyno'd at 9lbs and made 209HP at the wheels. I'll get dyno sheets if I have to prove it.

Before anyone starts saying 209hp is NOT more than 212hp, base HP is usually a junk spec given to satisfy the powers that be in the industry. This spec is also loosely based on HP at the flywheel which is usually 20-30% more than HP at the wheels. For those not in the know, it's because of parasitic power loss through the drivetrain.

The 420a block was CAD designed. The 4g63 was not. The 420a head was designed by Lotus Engineers, The 4g63 was not.

Mitsubishi has been under the spotlight for scandals involving the safety of their whole fleet of makes and models including the FUSO, for years. Here's a link to just part of the scandalsSafety Scandal Shames Mitsubishi | The Center for Autosafety How reliable can a car be if the factory isn't even building them correctly?

From a mechanics POV:The 420a wins hands down again. No special tools are required for a timing job. You don't have to worry about burning your hand on a hot DP when changing a hot 420A's oil. The amount of space taken up by the 420A in the engine bay is much less in comparison, giving you more room to work. Coil-pack....need I say more?

If you don't mind all the extra headaches, the 4g63 is where it's at. It can handle more boost stock, has the potential to go way faster than a 420a, and it will get you more respect from "true DSMr's."
Whatever that means.

If you like being the underdog, having a platform with a greater learning curve, that is easier to work on, the 420A is where it's at.

I'm done......I'm out of breath.

4g63T DSM = more power for cheaper IMO. you can run 20 psi (if your daring) on a stock motor.

a 420A would never hold that much boost on a stock motor IF Any.

therefore 4G63 Owns in Performance\Reliability\Price. its the best bang for the buck I say. Not To Mention 420A Eclipse\Talons run ya about 2-5K IF it hasn't been raped by Ricers.

I paid 1000$ for my Turbo Laser and I've beat 325I's E30 E36 E46, Base Model C5's, Cheap and or old Porsches, S2k's (Modded + Stocl), MK2 + MK3 Supra's.

The only thing I have done to the car since I bought it was give it a Oil Change, New Valve Cover, and turn the boost DOWN to 15 Psi.

Sorry after I posted I read this.....
First, being daring with 20lbs of boost is in no way going to help with reliablility...what was the title of this thread?

Second, the 420a can handle 12 lbs of boost on a stock bottom end, with minor fuel upgrades. 8 lbs RELIABLY on a stock fuel system.

Third, a mint condition 99RS with leather, power everything and less than 100k miles goes for less than 4k bluebook. The chances of someone selling a perfect 99RS are almost zero. Literally. There are less than 5% of ALL used cars that fit into that category. Average cost of a 2g N/T, pending condition, is 1100-2600.

4th, No kill stories, you'll get this interesting thread locked.

 

[talon2gb]

My turn.

I, like many posters in this thread, have owned both. The 420a wins hands down...and from performance level as well...let me explain:

If it all boils down to maintenance, It is easier to maintain a NA car than it is a Turbo. Less parts, Less to maintain.

According to manufacturer's specs:
The 4g63-t comes stock with 212 base HP 11-14 lbs of boost.
The 420A comes stock with 140 base HP with no boost.

For the price of a good used GS-T, we'll say 3800, you can buy a good used 420a, we'll say 2100 and 1400 for a good turbo DIY job. 2100+1400 =3500 Now that's 3500 dollars for a car that runs less boost(8lbs) and has the same, if not more HP than the 3800 dollar car. This was proven to me by a friend that had his 420A dyno'd at 9lbs and made 209HP at the wheels. I'll get dyno sheets if I have to prove it.

Before anyone starts saying 209hp is NOT more than 212hp, base HP is usually a junk spec given to satisfy the powers that be in the industry. This spec is also loosely based on HP at the flywheel which is usually 20-30% more than HP at the wheels. For those not in the know, it's because of parasitic power loss through the drivetrain.

The 420a block was CAD designed. The 4g63 was not. The 420a head was designed by Lotus Engineers, The 4g63 was not.

Mitsubishi has been under the spotlight for scandals involving the safety of their whole fleet of makes and models including the FUSO, for years. Here's a link to just part of the scandalsSafety Scandal Shames Mitsubishi | The Center for Autosafety How reliable can a car be if the factory isn't even building them correctly?

From a mechanics POV:The 420a wins hands down again. No special tools are required for a timing job. You don't have to worry about burning your hand on a hot DP when changing a hot 420A's oil. The amount of space taken up by the 420A in the engine bay is much less in comparison, giving you more room to work. Coil-pack....need I say more?

If you don't mind all the extra headaches, the 4g63 is where it's at. It can handle more boost stock, has the potential to go way faster than a 420a, and it will get you more respect from "true DSMr's."
Whatever that means.

If you like being the underdog, having a platform with a greater learning curve, that is easier to work on, the 420A is where it's at.

I'm done......I'm out of breath.

What he said. Thanks for bringing up facts that I did not know.

 

[BlackMount]

you can make ANY engine platform a "beast" man.

except the 4G37. (talking from personal experience)

not even with 7 psi wasn't even zippy

How reliable can a car be if the factory isn't even building them correctly?

I believe your thinking of GM

 

[IMS-Predator]

I bought me 1990 Eclipse GST over a year ago an it had 236,000 miles on it. I know have 281,000 miles on it an drive it 186 mile a day round trip. It is very reliable.

 

[talon2gb]

I bought me 1990 Eclipse GST over a year ago an it had 236,000 miles on it. I know have 281,000 miles on it an drive it 186 mile a day round trip. It is very reliable.

Even though I do not own a 4g63, I believe that the most serious reliability issues were with 2g's and not with 1g's. Hence the famous 7bolt motor which i often hear about.

 

[BlackMount]

Even though I do not own a 4g63, I believe that the most serious reliability issues were with 2g's and not with 1g's. Hence the famous 7bolt motor which i often hear about.

He's right. the 7 Bolt 1G motors actually still had less problems then the 2G 7 Bolts

 

[talon2gb]

He's right. the 7 Bolt 1G motors actually still had less problems then the 2G 7 Bolts

Well didn't 1g's come with 6bolts, which is why everyone tries to do the swap on 2g's. Supposedly 6bolts did not suffer from crankwalk. Atleast that's my understanding of the situation.

 

[bmx77802]

i beleive both motors CAN be reliable it just depends on how they were treated. only motors that are abused and or neglected will show signs of it, and the 4g63's are more likely to be abused to due them being a performance motor compared to the 420a. you ahve to keep in mind, the faster the car, the more attention it needs so the 4g63's have to be monitored more closely than the 420a motors

 

[black_clipse]

Well didn't 1g's come with 6bolts, which is why everyone tries to do the swap on 2g's. Supposedly 6bolts did not suffer from crankwalk. Atleast that's my understanding of the situation.

1990-1992.5 1's came with 6 bolts, from then on every 4g63 motor had a 7 bolt (including 1g's). And crankwalk can happen in a 6 bolt, as well as a 7 bolt... it is overaggerated... Yes a few have walked, but the vast majority have not.

 

[mannyssj13]

i own a 4g63 never had a problem with the motor or trans never broke down on me or never left me on the side of the road only once cause it was my fault and a coolant line broke but other then that i never had a problem with it..things brakes yes but also gotta remember these cars are old!! I love my car and no matter how much i gotta fix on it i dont care cause i know its old and putting new parts on it makes it least even longer! As for Reliable its all on how you take care of your car! If you keep up with your car and don't beat on it 24/7 then shouldnt have a problem but if you dont take care of it and beat on it like crazy and dont take care of what you need to then course its not going to turn out well Anything goes wrong with my car i dont drive it and fix it right away!

 

[LD25Delta9]

i own a 4g63 never had a problem with the motor or trans never broke down on me or never left me on the side of the road only once cause it was my fault and a coolant line broke but other then that i never had a problem with it..things brakes yes but also gotta remember these cars are old!! I love my car and no matter how much i gotta fix on it i dont care cause i know its old and putting new parts on it makes it least even longer! As for Reliable its all on how you take care of your car! If you keep up with your car and don't beat on it 24/7 then shouldnt have a problem but if you dont take care of it and beat on it like crazy and dont take care of what you need to then course its not going to turn out well Anything goes wrong with my car i dont drive it and fix it right away!

+1 for bringing up the real McCoy

It doesn't matter what engine you have, if you don't take care of it and romp on it all the time, you'll end up trashing it. More likely sooner rather than later.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

1990-1992.5 1's came with 6 bolts, from then on every 4g63 motor had a 7 bolt (including 1g's).

+1 Good info.