420a vs 4g63 Reliability

[talon2gb]

Well guys ever since I started looking for info on this forum, I've noticed that MANY 4g63 owners have reliability issues, including normal expected issues, and out of the ordinary issues. Yes I know that a 4g63 is by far a better platform to begin with, but I'm not talking about performance here, I'm talking about reliability. I've had my talon for 4 months with no problems , except minor problems that I have caused myself. A couple minutes ago I read a thread where a guy replied "I've been through a lot of similar situations like that with my old 95 GST. Lost 2 jobs thanks to that monster once the engine went, the other the whole wiring caught on fire". I mean come on loosing 2 jobs because of the damn 4g63. That just bugs me, but I would like to here some opinions. Will the 420a ever be dominant over the 4g63, even without the awd, lets compare it to a Gst. Attack me if you must but I feel in a way I'am right.

 

[420aNEWB]

the 420a is reliable aslong as you give it basic maintainance and the 4g63 is for power! i have both and i would choose the 420a on the highway and 4g63 for town so that my gsx wont leave me stranded on the highway haha

 

[twinsnails]

I believe what makes most 4g63 engines unreliable is that people mod them and on this form you get all the people who do that. For the most part 420a's are left alone and not tuned and modded like the 4g63. You never see built motors last longer then 70k because they are being pushed, they just can not handle what is going inevitably happen to them. Say someone buys a 2g GSX with 100k original miles on it, and the car is reasonably left alone, it never had a turbo change and the boost was not ####ed with. Now this person throws a 16g on there some injectors tries to tune it correctly with SAFC. Takes the necessary precautions but the HG goes or rod knock or something major happens. I do not call this reliability issues with an engine platform the car, but crazy ownership. I would be willing to bet that a factory rebuilt 4g63 would last a very long time with just minor issues if nothing was done to it.

 

[96_killer]

^^^+1
i agree with twinsnails in having owned both platforms my self..

 

[talon2gb]

I believe what makes most 4g63 engines unreliable is that people mod them and on this form you get all the people who do that. For the most part 420a's are left alone and not tuned and modded like the 4g63. You never see built motors last longer then 70k because they are being pushed, they just can not handle what is going inevitably happen to them. Say someone buys a 2g GSX with 100k original miles on it, and the car is reasonably left alone, it never had a turbo change and the boost was not ####ed with. Now this person throws a 16g on there some injectors tries to tune it correctly with SAFC. Takes the necessary precautions but the HG goes or rod knock or something major happens. I do not call this reliability issues with an engine platform the car, but crazy ownership. I would be willing to bet that a factory rebuilt 4g63 would last a very long time with just minor issues if nothing was done to it.

Well what about the famous crankwalk I often hear. I guess what I'm trying to say, is why not give the 420a a chance, to unveil the beast that hides within (I'm starting to get sentimental haha). I mean hey they're cheaper and I've seen videos out there of guys making a beast out of this engine. And yes before you say it I know it's a crapy chrysler engine that won't withstand that much power, but I guess it's just my opinion.

 

[96_killer]

Well what about the famous crankwalk.

And what about the famous i spun a rod bearing on are 420a
The 4g63 came out in 1987
The 420a in 1994
for me i think the RB26DETT has better Reliability

 

[twinsnails]

Like I do not know, having owned a KA 240sx then dropping an SR into it there is just no comparable difference. Then I owned my GSX which was slow compared to the SR, getting rid of it and out of the whole car scene right now (school and work = no time or money for this stuff). I drive a 1998 Forester daily and it is probably the most reliable car I have ever driven. If you are going to build a 420a engine and race with it I would assume you are going to run into a ton of problem just like people who build GST's and GSX's. I fully support people trying new things and yes it is impressive when people make power with them. My next project is going to be S2 Audi, say what you may but they are the ones that started the whole AWD thing and they are the best at it, and talk about a rock solid reliable engine, not the newer ones but this inline 5 is the real deal. I guess what I am saying is that you should not expect any built car to be as reliable as a car that is kept stock, and have a DD for when stuff happens. As far as crank walk goes I do not know first hand but it is on much less engines then you think. Sorry for the long posts. I would suggest trying to get a hold of someone who has made a lot of power with a 420a and asking them how much it really costs, you may be surprised at the costs.

 

[nightgamer]

And what about the famous i spun a rod bearing on are 420a

if you take care of both of them and light to no moding and not pushing it i say
both will last

 

[96_killer]

I'M just waiting For Bullet or Hopefully Defiant! or some of the Wisemen to bring in their 2 cents

 

[jrohner]

Wiring burning up isn't the engines fault.

I've had my 2g for about 5 years, and the engine hasn't been a problem (just clutches and transmissions), although I am now getting low on compression.

 

[Ethand14]

I had a 420a eclipse and it lasted me two years with no problems at all really. I have had my Talon for about 6 months. I bought it stock with 110,000 miles. I also got a book of repairs that have been done to the car. IMO it just depends on how good it is taken care of.

 

[DashLaflash]

Stock for stock the 4g63 kills the 420a. The 4g63 is already built for boost and it can handle some serious power reliably. If you upgrade properly and have a VERY good tune then there shouldn't be as many reliability issues. I personally will never buy a running DSM ever again . I used to have a GSX that I bought with a supposedly low 89,000 miles. The car wasn't perfect but I figured with the low miles it should be really good overall. Boy was I wrong. I honestly drove that thing on a tow truck more than did on the road. It seemed like at least once a month something would break on it. I blame it on age and poor maintenance by the previous owners though. Plus I bought it from a kid that probably drove it hard, and then I drove it twice as hard . Now I'm starting fresh with a brand new engine, turbo, transmission, etc. Reliablility is my number one concern with this build. Also I plan to be pushing at least 300whp on a stock rebuild. A stock rebuild 420a could never do that.

 

[One Equals Two]

Put by my friend, he summarizes reliability as this.

"These cars are reliable, but not forgiving. If you have everything done right, then it's a reliable car. If you are the person to say 'hmm, maybe I should fix that later' then these cars are not for you."

Point is, if you mod it, mod it well and don't cut corners. If you just drive a stock one, keep up on all maintenance and when you do, make sure you are really anal about it. My buddy has an RVR 4G63 in Japan with 150K miles (converted from km) and all he does it maintain it properly.

 

[Doubleot]

I've owned both. My 420a gave me major problems and it wasn't just because of reliablilty issues. Me and my brother were the last owners for about 12 years. I liked it at first until I started getting stupid problems like hoses blowing up and engine going bad. It had 100k on it and my brother did a complete engine rebuild with oem parts and not even 2 years later I started having miss firing problems and bad water pumps left and right. I would definitly say my 4g63 has been so much more reliable I haven't had a problem with it yet besides normal maintenice. (Starter gone bad)

 

[GsXtC21]

A more even comparison would be a n/a 4g63 motor and the 420a and i have plenty of buddies that daily n/a 1st gen's and have proven to be very reliable, same goes for n/a 2nd gens. Its on all how well they have been properly maintained through the years... Now if you want to compare them from a performance standpoint, the 4g63-t is far superior as a starting platform for many reasons and in my opinion, there is really no comparing the two "as base platforms"....

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I believe what makes most 4g63 engines unreliable is that people mod them and on this form you get all the people who do that. For the most part 420a's are left alone and not tuned and modded like the 4g63.

+1 twinsnails, well said. The 4g63 is very reliable IF maintained. The reason they seam unreliable is because many of them are 20+ years old and have not been maintained and are them modded. Maintenance first! I have learned that the hard way!

 

[JusMX141]

A few things I dislike about both engines:

420A:

• The water pump is driven by the timing belt, which means a failed water pump could cause you to crash your valves if it's bad enough to let the engine jump time.
• The flywheel bolts to the crankshaft via a flex plate, much like an automatic car's torque converter is mounted. This design limits you to the amount of power you can make before the flex plate explodes, as well as limits your available clutch choices as well.

4G63:

• Balance shafts- we don't need them. Many 4-cylinders come from the factory without them, and most DSMers eliminate them anyway as they're just one more thing to fail.
• I don't really care for the design of the oil pump. I know many other 4-cylinders use a similar design where the oil pump fits into the entire front case, but this makes it much more difficult to service in the event of an issue. I also feel this design is the reason a healthy engine can have 5psi of oil pressure at idle and 125psi at wide-open throttle.

 

[Sp1kE]

My 4g63 lasted 4 years of summer driving and weekend track beatdowns. Probally 50+ passes.
Only left me stranded once when the computer blew (aftermarket).
That same motor is the motor I learned to tune on (from scratch) and the first motor I have ever worked on. It is still running with 150psi across and 200+k
Just keep an extra eye on things and don't be an idiot.

 

[talon2gb]

Wow 15 replies in 4 hours is a record for me!!! From what I've heard people that have fast gsx's/gst's have put alot of money and time in their build, but I guess that's with any build. I'm telling you there's some people out there with sick neons, avengers, which basically have the same engine as eclipses/talons nt. If you think about it I got my car for 800 bucks, I spent about 800 bucks to turbo it, and I'm happy with results (stock engine has a limit, I know). Now as far as a gsx or gst I don't think that around here you'll find one for that price in good running condition. Now what if i were to strip the block, bore it, get forged internals, fuel management and all that stuff, would is still amount to be more than what somebody would spend on building a 4g63? And again this is only my opinion and I'm not telling anyone what to do.

 

[infantry]

hahn racecraft has a good write up on the testing they did on the 420A for their turbo setup. go to their site and check it out

 

[BlackMount]

4G63 is just as reliable if not more then the 420A, but makes much more power and handels it better.

My 1990 Laser RS Turbo has 227K+ ORIGINAL Miles on it, 6 Bolt, and I'm running 15 PSI. Motor has NEVER been rebuilt or replaced. The only thing it has had done was the head was rebuilt about 10k ago.

Has Basic Mods.

Motor Pulls hard as hell and doesn't smoke or tick or knock. I wouldn't hesitate to drive it cross country.

Basically 4G63 Ownz over 420A from my experience with them both.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Wow 15 replies in 4 hours is a record for me!!! From what I've heard people that have fast gsx's/gst's have put alot of money and time in their build, but I guess that's with any build. I'm telling you there's some people out there with sick neons, avengers, which basically have the same engine as eclipses/talons nt. If you think about it I got my car for 800 bucks, I spent about 800 bucks to turbo it, and I'm happy with results (stock engine has a limit, I know). Now as far as a gsx or gst I don't think that around here you'll find one for that price in good running condition. Now what if i were to strip the block, bore it, get forged internals, fuel management and all that stuff, would is still amount to be more than what somebody would spend on building a 4g63? And again this is only my opinion and I'm not telling anyone what to do.

When you started this thread it was about reliability. Now maybe I'm misunderstanding you but it looks like your trying to say that the 420A goes faster for cheaper. Know I don't know what your running with your turbo'd 420A but I'd bet that it won't touch a bone stock 4G63t. Plus spend a grand (~$800) on a 4G63t (the right way,) and your set for FAST and reliable. Yeah if you want a monster the sky is the limit on what you can spend but that is the same for any performance car.

 

[spydreclips6]

I have a Talon 420a, and a eclipse gsx. The 420a is a great engine to use for daily driving, and long distance(for me anyway). Great on gas! Can't go wrong with the 4g63 for the power and performance though! I think the real issue is the mods we do to our 4g63's. Anytime you mod a car it changes its reliability. So if you keep them stock your in good shape!

 

[96_killer]

man i knew from the start this thread was going to go no were. Bad topic to bring up on this site. never bring up 4g63 vs 420a on any level they are completely different platforms!!!

RB26DETT all the way..

 

[BlackMount]

RB26DETT all the way..

Fail XD

420A is the "I cant afford a 4G63 so I'm going to get the next best thing"

around here its known as the Ricer's DSM