4G63 vs 420A

[Galland]

I've been reading up on dsm's and eclipse's lately before I get mine. I want either a GS or RS because they are cheaper and cheaper insureance. But I know they are slower and even if I would get a GSX or GST I would still replace more of the turbo system and other parts.

I've got several buddies that just got some sweet rides and are expecting to have they're cars up to 400hp or more and I would love to compete with em... My main question is, what is the side by side difference between the 420 and 4G??? From the engine, trans, and anything else.

Also, I noticed that the 420A has higher compression then the 4G63. Someone said that it would be good to lower the compression in the 420A if I was to throw a turbo on there and compete with it. Why is this?? I thought higher compression= more hp??

Thanks much.. and plz. don't start a flamewar...

 

[Eclipse IF]

Originally posted by Hooah
I say u should get a n/a becuase the fast and the furious car ran 10's ....rice

 

[kagegod]

the SRT-4, while getting a little bit of a looks upgrade came a little to late IMO. Now Subaru is putting out a 300HP car, the Lancer Evo 8 is out, and the HP numbers are higher than the SRT-4. Not to knock the car cause from what I've seen it has tons of potential but you know what it boils down to?

I don't give a f*ck if it's running 9's or 16's. I bought an Eclipse cause it looks GOOD and the ladies agree. 'nuff said.

And if we're gonna bring other cars into this debate why not get a Supra tt with the 2JZ engine?

Just buy what you want and to hell with what people think cause it's about making yourself happy.

 

[Hooah]

Originally posted by kagegod
the SRT-4, while getting a little bit of a looks upgrade came a little to late IMO. Now Subaru is putting out a 300HP car, the Lancer Evo 8 is out, and the HP numbers are higher than the SRT-4. Not to knock the car cause from what I've seen it has tons of potential but you know what it boils down to?

I don't give a f*ck if it's running 9's or 16's. I bought an Eclipse cause it looks GOOD and the ladies agree. 'nuff said.

And if we're gonna bring other cars into this debate why not get a Supra tt with the 2JZ engine?

Just buy what you want and to hell with what people think cause it's about making yourself happy.

he is correct...but.....isnt that a turbo in ur sig. pic

 

[kagegod]

Originally posted by Hooah


he is correct...but.....isnt that a turbo in ur sig. pic

You sir are correct

I couldn't get financed for a GST/GSX and even if I could I was looking at $100 more per month (yes that's PER MONTH ) than a RS/GS.

That and I really like the sound of a turbo spooling the BOV sounding (PTSSSS)

 

[Hooah]

Originally posted by kagegod


You sir are correct

I couldn't get financed for a GST/GSX and even if I could I was looking at $100 more per month (yes that's PER MONTH ) than a RS/GS.

That and I really like the sound of a turbo spooling the BOV sounding (PTSSSS)

you and me both

 

[Galland]

Well guy, I thank you very much for all the great info, but I"m afaid I decided to go one step ahead of you all. I plan on getting a GS or RS 2g eclipse (great insurance and almost guaranteed the car hasn't been beat therefore pretty good shape). I'll get a 1g eclipse (turbo + 5 speed) rebuild the engine and swape the engine with the 420A.

The 2g will be my spring/summer/fall car and the 1g will be my year round beater.

 

[kagegod]

haha right on. Good luck man

 

[daltah]

Good luck on that easy swap

 

[Initial DSM]

Originally posted by Galland
Well guy, I thank you very much for all the great info, but I"m afaid I decided to go one step ahead of you all. I plan on getting a GS or RS 2g eclipse (great insurance and almost guaranteed the car hasn't been beat therefore pretty good shape). I'll get a 1g eclipse (turbo + 5 speed) rebuild the engine and swape the engine with the 420A.

The 2g will be my spring/summer/fall car and the 1g will be my year round beater.

I had a 90 GST that I bought in 2001 for 1500. it was beat to shit, but I kept it and later bought my rs for 5k. I got a 90 GSX for $500 and kept the GST engine which I started to work on before (new haed gasket, timing belt, alternator , water pump), so I'm putting that one in now in the GSX. I say look in FL for a used Evo IV engine and swap that one in instead if your set on doing an engine swap instead of a turbo kit. You might pay alot for the engine, but its prolly cheaper in the long run as far as the 4g63 1g eclipse engine faces opposite direction than the 420a. The evos IV to VIII face the same way as the 420a.

 

[ChicagoGSX]

Originally posted by Galland
Well guy, I thank you very much for all the great info, but I"m afaid I decided to go one step ahead of you all. I plan on getting a GS or RS 2g eclipse (great insurance and almost guaranteed the car hasn't been beat therefore pretty good shape). I'll get a 1g eclipse (turbo + 5 speed) rebuild the engine and swape the engine with the 420A.

The 2g will be my spring/summer/fall car and the 1g will be my year round beater.

You haven't researched that much have you?

 

[Hooah]

u stated that u wanted something to keep up with ur friends......get the awd, imo they are the best due to the fact that u never spin and get great launches.....and i would have to agree, u havent looked into this much have u?

 

[kagegod]

Well hey if that's what he wants to do then that's what he wants to do. IMO it's gonna be more expensive to do a swap than to just buy the car turbo or even buy it N/T and put a turbo on it just cause of how much is involved with doing a motor swap

 

[Hooah]

heh..i should know, just got another 7 bolt (my grandad was goofie and got this one) put into my car.....over 3k with new clutch and slave cyl.

 

[kagegod]

You know what I really envy about the GST/GSX? The fact that they do not have a modular clutch!!!! I hate the clutch setup on my car. I'm going to be converting it to a standard flywheel soon

 

[Hooah]

Originally posted by kagegod
You know what I really envy about the GST/GSX? The fact that they do not have a modular clutch!!!! I hate the clutch setup on my car. I'm going to be converting it to a standard flywheel soon

see...yet another reason

 

[kagegod]

Well that's Chrysler's WONDERFUL engineering at work. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. if anything, that should be the arguement that the GST/GSX people should focus on, not the fact that the 420a comes in the neon R/T or that it's not a capable motor. FOCUS ON THE CLUTCH!!

I don't even know the reasoning behind doing a modular setup. Maybe it was cheaper? Maybe there's some hidden advantage to having one that I've yet to even begint o fathom....who knows.

 

[Galland]

OK, I never did do much research on the swap... (my bad) but my dad has a nice shop and I"m doing all the work myself, so it'll take alot of work, I don't care, but if it take alot of $$$ then I'm gettin a GST..

 

[Initial DSM]

I guess youre gettin a GST then....

 

[Gen2Eclipse]

It's going to cost you alot more money (and time) to buy the 1st gen, rebuild the motor, and swap it in a 2nd gen eclipse than to just buy a turbo'd one in the first place. As far as the 420a, it will cost you alot more for a turbo kit that will barely run with a stock 4g63, and if your expecting it to run anywhere higher than 12psi (reliably) then your going to have to rebuild the internals which is serious time and money. The 4g63 is capable of producing up to 500hp on stock internals. My advice for you is to just go for a gst or gsx. I just recently bought a 95 gst and its very affordable. My payments are $135 a month and insurance is $110. Easily affordable and well worth the money.

 

[Initial DSM]

Originally posted by Gen2Eclipse
It's going to cost you alot more money (and time) to buy the 1st gen, rebuild the motor, and swap it in a 2nd gen eclipse than to just buy a turbo'd one in the first place. As far as the 420a, it will cost you alot more for a turbo kit that will barely run with a stock 4g63, and if your expecting it to run anywhere higher than 12psi (reliably) then your going to have to rebuild the internals which is serious time and money. The 4g63 is capable of producing up to 500hp on stock internals. My advice for you is to just go for a gst or gsx. I just recently bought a 95 gst and its very affordable. My payments are $135 a month and insurance is $110. Easily affordable and well worth the money.

Ok everything you just said I agree with minus the statement that the turbo kit will barely run with a stock 4g63. stage II star or HRC is like 275-290hp vs 210 stock hp of gst/gsx

 

[DSMNightmare]

OK here is the break down. I did a NADA list on the GS, GST, and GSX. All the cars had the following:

1. All options minus the A/T
2. 48000 miles
3. St Louis for the zip code.
4. All cars were 1999


The GS booked for 11,700
The GST booked for 13,500
The GSX booked for 15,700

OK now take the GS for 11,700
Add a Hahn Stage II for 3050.00
Add a 3" exhaust for 700(give or take)
Total spent: 15,450

Now the GST for 13,500
Add a 3" exhaust 700
Add a upper IC pipe 65
FP 2G Big 16 Package 999 (http://www.forcedperformance.net/)
Total Spent: 15264

Finally the GSX for 15700
Add a 3" exhaust 700
Add a upper IC pipe 65
FP 2G Big 16 Package 999 (http://www.forcedperformance.net/)
Total Spent: 17464

Now there are arguments for all three on this but clearly you can see where I'm going with this. Dollar for dollar it looks like the GST would be the most cost effective. The exhaust was a guestamation and thats why all three are the same price. I'm sure others could shop for this stuff cheaper somewhere else but I went by advertised prices. Also while the GSX might cost more, keep in mind there are plenty of people who have went into the 13s with just the T25 and also keep in mind where you want to be at the end of your mods. Also 1.6 or 1.7 60fts are really hard to pull in either FWD.

stage II star or HRC is like 275-290hp vs 210 stock hp of gst/gsx

This statement only holds water if you only plan to race stock or near stock 4G63s. Otherwise you have your work cut out for you. And don't believe the hype, just slapping a kit on your car is not going to put you at 290hp. It takes tuning and work.

 

[Initial DSM]

But thats what I meant; if youre racing against stock, it should be faster than stock gst/gsx. as far as tuning, if the persons smart, theyll realize they should build up internals eventually anyway to avoid future problems. i guess most try to cut costs by cutting corners but we all know what happens then.

 

[ChicagoGSX]

The GSX would be the quickest of the three cars at that level. Unless you want to add drag radials and suspension modifications to the list for the FWD cars, which would then put it equal to the GSX. At that point you have already hit the limit for reasonable spending on the GS, and the GST is just going to have to fight traction the more money you spend on HP mods. The only one of the 3 that can easily hang with mildly modded Supras, RX7s, etc. is the GSX. At that modification level that is.

 

[DSMNightmare]

Originally posted by ChicagoGSX
The GSX would be the quickest of the three cars at that level. Unless you want to add drag radials and suspension modifications to the list for the FWD cars, which would then put it equal to the GSX. At that point you have already hit the limit for reasonable spending on the GS, and the GST is just going to have to fight traction the more money you spend on HP mods. The only one of the 3 that can easily hang with mildly modded Supras, RX7s, etc. is the GSX. At that modification level that is.

I'm not sure where your getting that data from but I have beaten GSXs with the same mods before. Besides like I pointed out the GSX is already 2000 dollars over what the other two are. Drag radials are 300 bucks MAX and if you want to go as far as a set of 500 dollar slicks then you would still have 1500 to put into the car. You don't have to come in here waving your AWD flag just because of my post. We all know John Shephard runs .3 seconds faster than Gary Marsh so there you have your AWD brownie point. BUT Your statement about RX7s and Supras is not true and I don't know where you got your data on that one. They suffer from similar traction issues as well.

I by no means stated FWD was better than AWD because its not. I merely laid down some FACTS about money spent and said you figure out which is more cost effective. Fact is when your racing you have to ask yourself a question. Do you want cost effective? or Do you want a fast ass car? If I could do it again I would have a AWD but I am working with what I have and I am very happy.

 

[DSMNightmare]

BTW chicagoGSX what times do you run with your current setup?