420a cams?? what do you recommend?

[Dark Lytz]

I would say save the money for the GSX......but if your impatient like myself go and buy The AEM cam gears.heres a site that has them: 95-99 Mitsubishi Eclipse Cam Gears from AEM at Andy's Auto Sport

 

[ddpmj]

hey turbo brick did the cams increase your rev limit.
thanks

 

[Fotowntalon]

rev limit is electrical, will need aftermarket tuning/ecu for that. Although if u do one of those things to push back/remove your rev limiter, you will be able to enjoy that much more with your cams

 

[ddpmj]

alrite thanks

 

[zrb16]

How do you know how high to set your rev lim with your cams for max performance? Dyno and find peak power?

 

[MORADO12]

i was thinking on going turbo, ### my friends sold their RS and bought gst and gsx...so i want something different...so im going all motor

so i have a question has anyone tried the dsmgraveyard 420a stage2 head...would i be getting good results or should i get the crane cams, valves and retainers and built my head, also do i have to get pistons and rings, or upgrade the fuel system what else do you recommend....

 

[cgmtboarder]

Do you have to tune the ecu for the cams? or how does it run just putting the cams in without a tune?

 

[NA420a]

believe he says he is still running stock ecu..

also love your video turbo brick, car sounds mean.

 

[Project2G]

Why would you buy cams for the 420a if you are trying to save money for a gsx? Isn't that taking a step backwards?

 

[hobgoblen0]

Hmmmm, lets see here:
1) it was a subaru! If I took you for a ride in my evo, you would think it was N/A minus the now 400AWHP issue that it has!

2)Kep your GS badge on the back of your eclipse and let everyone think you still have a n/a...I had that for a while until my last body shop took it off and I just rolled with it. I did surprise a few turbo eclipses when they thought they were gonna hav a nice lunch!

3)You can still think your the underdog...

4)No, it actually takes a lot of hard work to design yourself a well rounded turbo system for your car. Your right anyone can slap a turbo on their car and you know what they get..a laggy turboed car that might have 200 hp. you know what we call them over here.. a honda

5)Keep your boost low ie 5-8 psi on a standard t3/t04 50 tim or a nice spooling evo 8 turbo (16g). has great spool up. be sure you do your reserch ahead of time and ask questions to those who can and want to help out. Start slow and you will get addicted to boost the first time you hear your own car spooling a turbo and blowwing off!

Good luck

by the way, I'm just got crane 0014 cams and crane valvesprings I will be putting into my eclipse this next week. I will be retuning accordingly with my ms.

rob

Oh yeah, EGR blockoff FTW!

i will agree that building a turbo charged engine takes alot of time and work not just for our dsms but any. And as for boost creep or turbo lag as u call it we as the turbo comunity have improved this greatly just like the listed url they have done great things but u can recirulate the blown off pressure to keep from having turbo lag. And as for a sleeper you can build a turbo the same way but its alot harder. I will say it is more expenive to build a turbo than a nt. As for the long term use the turbo engine can last as long as a nt my friend and i have build like 6 of thease cars for people and our selves he has a older dsm 92 eclipse 4g63t and i have a 96 talon 420a turbo. i just got my built and he has had his for over 12 years and is still running as strong as day one but we are running full synthetic oils. kept up matanice. I can say as far as a launch my car dosent have much of a problem with but im not running a normal marketed trubo for a car. I know the synapse has some bad reviews was just using as and example. My turbo talon will almost keep up with my truck on power and its a built out the ass 383 stroker s10. i have to upgrade a couple of my trans and drive train before i take it to the strip and get my times. But as my family has always said it dose mater much on the car if the driver sucks. And to answer the port and polish q it can cost 350 for a half port and polish which is a intake and exauste port and polish and where i have a full port and polish where they are even opening up my combustion camber or where the valves are in the head that costs close to 800 depending on where or who dose it. ok as far as cam set up you normaly want a lower lope for a n/t or lower compression but i under stand y dude said go with his set up. it is because those cams are a middle cam for n/t and a high compression set up so that way if u decide to go with a turbo you may not have to go and change cams which would cost more money. For some of the noobies that may read this heres a tip for ya. if your using a turbo/nos or mild to high compression make sure you get a stiff spring crowers retainers and springs are realy a good set up i made the mistake putting not so stiff of a spring in and at a high rev with only 15psi it blew my valves open and as u gess new pistions and head. but that was 7 years ago. Ill try to get you guys sum vids as soon as i can.

 

[Delta Cam]

I heard Graveyard Motorsports is starting to build these heads and engines and offers an perf. camshaft.
I'm building a EVO 9 hoping they get into those soon too, John is a great guy to deal with.

 

[boost4you]

Yea, Jon is building an all motor head now, and is using these new cams. Ill PM him to put details of what he is doing.

Here is what they have so far:
DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!

I know the cams are called a 272 for now, but I though he said he need to change it.

 

[DSMGraveyardinc]

Hey whats up,

Yea, we are building 420a cams. We do not have specs posted yet, since they are in development now. We should have #'s for everyone by the end of the week. We are building 2 styles, one for All Motor, and one for Turbo engines. This way 420a builders can have some more options.

I am personally building a 420a (98 talon, its sick) for myself, so I can have first hand experience on what 420a guys go through. Then we are putting the parts up on the site.

We are building heads now too, we are building a "Special" 420a all motor head, for guys wanting a bit higher comp. We are decking them a bit, then doing a port job, and having cams.

Lastly, we are offering STR-4 piston rod combos for the turbo build guys. They are cheap and good. Only problem is they only come in STD bore, so no oversizing. AND they only come as a piston and rod combo, no single rod or single piston.

Anyways,

CAMS - ALL MOTOR and Turbo Cams - $289.99 plus core return

Here is my head for kicks!

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Keep it real everyone,

Jon @ DSM Graveyard

 

[Dark DSM]

Im using Crower stage 3's 256/254, with SBi lifters, and rockers from a 2.7l Intrepid motor (new from Chrysler) and she has a mean idle with pretty good pick up, especially when i hit boost.

 

[bullettdsm]

Jon,

While I appreciate your enthusiasm for getting into the 420a parts. I know it would be great to have more options for our parts. But I would ask that before you advertise product, you would be sure that the product can work. I would hate to get our guys hopes up, when some items aren't possible.

Now we've already talked about the 272 cams that you are advertising on your site;
DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!

Even if you could make that cam on a regrind, the numbers would be too aggresive. Please keep in mind that our rockers are a 1.75 ratio. Remember the 4g63 has totaly different flow characteristics than our cars (not to mention port sizes}.

And guys, its not possible to put the SRT rod and piston combo in a 2.0 block. The rods will push the pistons right through the head.

DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!

Now we have talked about these things previously (as has Tim Klein on the SRT parts). When you make a premature post like this, I'm kinda forced to put this out there so that the 420a guys don't jump into anything.

I would ask that you just get your parts and testing completed first.

MB

 

[Locke]

The SRT4 pistons/rods are only useful to us when in a 2.4 cloud-car block.

 

[Delta Cam]

I called and got the 420 cam specs.
186' duration @ .050 and .375 lift intake
170' duration @ .050 and . 320 lift exhaust

 

[bullettdsm]

I called and got the 420 cam specs.
186' duration @ .050 and .375 lift intake
170' duration @ .050 and . 320 lift exhaust

At least those numbers make more sense.

But stiill on the site;

http://www.thedsmgraveyard.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=272+420
a+cam&Search.x=15&Search.y=6

I'm going to take a guess that this is Ken? If so, you and I already talked about possibilities of going over 260 duration with a regrind on our cams. And Graveyard is still advertising 272's. As well as other things. Just bad business practice continuing to post and sell incorrect parts.

I've got no axe to grind with anybody on here. I welcome more suppliers of 420a parts. But its practices like the aforementioned that are not condusive to a trusting atmosphere.

And Graveyard, you still continue to advertise parts that are just not true. I would ask that you take them off your site until you can somehow prove that SRT-4 rods and pistons can fit on a 2.0 crank and in a 2.0 block.

MB

 

[caboose]

the srt4 set is in the 2.4 section of the website...

 

[Delta Cam]

At least those numbers make more sense.

But stiill on the site;

DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!
a+cam&Search.x=15&Search.y=6

I'm going to take a guess that this is Ken? If so, you and I already talked about possibilities of going over 260 duration with a regrind on our cams. And Graveyard is still advertising 272's. As well as other things. Just bad business practice continuing to post and sell incorrect parts.

I've got no axe to grind with anybody on here. I welcome more suppliers of 420a parts. But its practices like the aforementioned that are not condusive to a trusting atmosphere.

And Graveyard, you still continue to advertise parts that are just not true. I would ask that you take them off your site until you can somehow prove that SRT-4 rods and pistons can fit on a 2.0 crank and in a 2.0 block.

MB

This is Jon the owner of Delta, I'm pretty sure the "generic" term of 272 is just like a stage two type verbage.
advertised duration has been the " smoke and mirrors" advertising gimmick since the 60's. The domestic cams go by .050 to keep them all on the same page. And I have noticed a trend of the imports evolving into checking clearances of .1mm to get them all compared correctly.

 

[bullettdsm]

the srt4 set is in the 2.4 section of the website...

Here let me lead you a bit;

Follow this link like you are a 420a guy looking for 420a "stuff"

DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!

Scroll down to the "frankenstein" short block at the bottom of the 420a page. Then click on it.

You will also see that there is a 2.0 engine block on that stand. As you read through the description etc., nowhere does it mention needing a 2.4 block. On the contrary, it only....here let me just post the description;

This is our New 420a Frankenstein Short Block for Turbo applications! This utilizes New OEM SRT-4 Pistons, Rings, and Connecting Rods to make your 420a hold upwards of 450HP! This is for Turbo Appliations ONLY, since this is a Lower Compression setup, which is what you need when running a turbo. SRT-4 Pistons are Drop Forged, and resemble the Evo 8/9 Piston, and the Rods are FORGED STEEL, compared to the powdered metal stock rods ( VERY WEAK). This is a great engine that will work with many applications out there, and will not break the bank!

420a engine is a 2.0 block. Heck, look at the related products that are listed off to the side on that page. Look at the "features' listed.

The "honest mistake" is running on too long. They are aware that the block is a 2.0 block and that they need 2.4 parts to build their "frankenstein" motor. Here let me quote an E-mail they sent to Mr Klein;

Hey Tim,

Well, to be honest, that motor is a standard 2.0 420a block. We will be doing some 2.4 stroker ideas here in the next few months, but until then, we are not. We could build you a 2.4 short block if you want, and then we can find you some 2.4 mounts, but we would be selling the kit as new parts. Also, we only have 2.0 blocks here, you would have to supply your own 2.4 core for us to build. Other than that, it should be easy,

Hope this helps!

Jon Walker

And yet they continue to advertise it. THAT is where I'm having the biggest problem with this.

I know I'm running a fine line with Graveyard being a sponsor and all, but I just can't let this ride. One of the main reasons I post on these sites is to help other people who haven't had the experience/knowledge in modding their cars. Part of that is pointing out when someone is not being forthright.

I have no sponsorship and I am beholding to no one. I try to be fair in my assessments and when I see someone not being forthright, I will continue to point it out.

MB

 

[Locke]

To call a cam a 272, it should have 272* of duration at some point. Usually, vendors get this duration right off the base. You cannot call a cam a "272" just because, it must mean something, even if what it means is next to useless as an indicator for anything other than whether it is larger than another cam.

 

[Delta Cam]

bingo now you got it, 260- 264 = stage 1 270-272-274 = stage 2 280-282-284 = stage 3

But you are also correct, usually a cam will have the "advertised" duration somewhere between .000 lash and .050

 

[bullettdsm]

This is Jon the owner of Delta, I'm pretty sure the "generic" term of 272 is just like a stage two type verbage.

I certainly would disagree with this statement........but Jon, I'm not asking you to speak for the "other" Jon, .

advertised duration has been the " smoke and mirrors" advertising gimmick since the 60's. The domestic cams go by .050 to keep them all on the same page. And I have noticed a trend of the imports evolving into checking clearances of .1mm to get them all compared correctly.

I would certainly agree with this statement But the "smoke and mirrors" should have some basis in fact. The 272 cams for our cars (even if you go at gross numbers) have no basis in fact.

And FWIW, All the Crower's I have gotten come with a cam card that has both points of measurement (gross and .050"). I can't absolutely recollect the Crane cards that I have seen but I'm inclined to beleive that they have both also.

Oh yeah, I wish we could make some regrinds for me

MB

Edit in; Sorry Jon. I took a shot. I talked to Ken there previously. I hope I didn't offend you, .

 

[Delta Cam]

Heck no, None taken... crap I was married to a Philippino / Italian woman for 10 yrs. before I called it quiets.
Now I have a great wife, but unfortunately, all my hair was already gone !

Bullet you have PM