420A Cams

[SilentSilver]

Wondering how much power I can gain from a good set or cams? Plus what upgrades to do while the head is off, I've heard pt cruiser rockers are good? Lmk what your setup is and how long it takes roughly

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

I don't think anyone has done a dyno session before and after a set of cams so it's hard to say exactly. The engine will definitely fell more alive though. My head setup is:
- 64462 stage 2 Crower cams
- +1mm stainless valves
- port & polish, heavy on exhaust side
- Brian Crower springs and titanium retainers
- 2.4L rocker arms and hydraulic lifters.

Before and after my valvetrain modifications, a significant difference. I also have adjustable cam gears at 2 degrees and it almost feels as if it has Vtech. Makes great power in high rpm range for a Mopar junkyard brick.

One issue you may run into is finding a good set of cams to use. Nearly all of them have been discontinued in recent years. You can still buy turbo grind but I wouldn't recommend for a non turbo application. I've heard good things about the Brian Crower Stage 2 besides a CEL for random cylinder misfire, the duration is significantly higher than stock and ECU can't comprehend. The Crower Stage 2's that I use are great but less aggressive than the BC. I can't say how they would respond with stock ECU but maybe no misfire code. Both of these are discontinued but your best options. I personally bought the last available set of the Crower and haven't seen anymore since. Used BC seem to float around for sale online.

With more aggressive cams I would also go for the stiffer springs to make sure no valve float occurs and you can rev to redline with full power. I experienced valve float around 6800 rpm with Stage 1 cams some years back. So Stage 2 would definitely do it. The retainers might not be necessary for your current application, but if you ever plan to raise rev limiter with a standalone go ahead and do them too. They don't cost very much, or didn't when I purchased.

 

[SilentSilver]

I don't think anyone has done a dyno session before and after a set of cams so it's hard to say exactly. The engine will definitely fell more alive though. My head setup is:
- 64462 stage 2 Crower cams
- +1mm stainless valves
- port & polish, heavy on exhaust side
- Brian Crower springs and titanium retainers
- 2.4L rocker arms and hydraulic lifters.

Before and after my valvetrain modifications, a significant difference. I also have adjustable cam gears at 2 degrees and it almost feels as if it has Vtech. Makes great power in high rpm range for a Mopar junkyard brick.

One issue you may run into is finding a good set of cams to use. Nearly all of them have been discontinued in recent years. You can still buy turbo grind but I wouldn't recommend for a non turbo application. I've heard good things about the Brian Crower Stage 2 besides a CEL for random cylinder misfire, the duration is significantly higher than stock and ECU can't comprehend. The Crower Stage 2's that I use are great but less aggressive than the BC. I can't say how they would respond with stock ECU but maybe no misfire code. Both of these are discontinued but your best options. I personally bought the last available set of the Crower and haven't seen anymore since. Used BC seem to float around for sale online.

With more aggressive cams I would also go for the stiffer springs to make sure no valve float occurs and you can rev to redline with full power. I experienced valve float around 6800 rpm with Stage 1 cams some years back. So Stage 2 would definitely do it. The retainers might not be necessary for your current application, but if you ever plan to raise rev limiter with a standalone go ahead and do them too. They don't cost very much, or didn't when I purchased.

I found some crower stage 1 cams on CI motorsports, not sure how reputable they are. If im only going stage 1 I was thinking the port and polish would be useful bit maybe not required but would definitely still put springs retainers and rockers to beef up the head a little. Want to street it still don't want to go to crazy

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Crower Stage 1s are worth maybe 5-6 HP over stock cams; they’re so small you will barely notice them. Porting the head is useful, but the gains magnify as airflow goes up (you’ll reap the largest benefits with high compression and huge cams, duh). The Neon/420A head is mostly fine on the intake side, but porters spend the most time there for some reason. The biggest gains are from opening up the exhaust, which is tricky. Ultimately, porting isn’t the best use of funds, and I’ve heard some second-hand stores of CI doing a bad job. Decking the head 0.025” to increase compression and using good valves & springs will go a long way.

If you’re sticking with the stock ECU, a set of BC or Crower Stage 2s is the right answer, since they’ll work well with the stock fuel maps and stock rev limit, but still produce good gains (10-15 HP). They may need a S-AFC to pull some fuel at idle to run seamlessly. I’ve got a nice set of BC S2s for sale in the classifieds, and I’ll be selling a bare, very nicely ported 420A head once I pull the valvetrain out of it for my own car.

 

[SilentSilver]

Crower Stage 1s are worth maybe 5-6 HP over stock cams; they’re so small you will barely notice them. Porting the head is useful, but the gains magnify as airflow goes up (you’ll reap the largest benefits with high compression and huge cams, duh). The Neon/420A head is mostly fine on the intake side, but porters spend the most time there for some reason. The biggest gains are from opening up the exhaust, which is tricky. Ultimately, porting isn’t the best use of funds, and I’ve heard some second-hand stores of CI doing a bad job. Decking the head 0.025” to increase compression and using good valves & springs will go a long way.

If you’re sticking with the stock ECU, a set of BC or Crower Stage 2s is the right answer, since they’ll work well with the stock fuel maps and stock rev limit, but still produce good gains (10-15 HP). They may need a S-AFC to pull some fuel at idle to run seamlessly. I’ve got a nice set of BC S2s for sale in the classifieds, and I’ll be selling a bare, very nicely ported 420A head once I pull the valvetrain out of it for my own car

The cams look good, I know their n/a cams so how would they preform with forced induction? Probably like shit I would think is it worth just buying turbo grind cams and holding onto them?

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

The cams look good, I know their n/a cams so how would they preform with forced induction? Probably like shit I would think is it worth just buying turbo grind cams and holding onto them?

They’ll perform fine with a turbo, too. Dedicated forced induction cams for 420A are designed to improve exhaust velocity to get the turbo going sooner (and reduce overlap in some applications), they will make a bit more torque on spoolup and lose a bit of top end power. They’re not worth hobbling yourself while you remain NA in the hope that you’ll turbocharge someday.

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

Wondering how much power I can gain from a good set or cams? Plus what upgrades to do while the head is off, I've heard pt cruiser rockers are good? Lmk what your setup is and how long it takes roughly

Crower & Brian Crower (BC cams) no longer offer staged 420a performance cams on either of the main website's they haven't for the last 6 months, that's how long CI motorsports has been trying to get a hold of some, if you look on CI motorsports website it says shipped by the "manufacturer" not by CI themselves, when I called to talk to the guy at CI and Dustin at BC and Crower. when I snapped my Crower staged 2 64462 exhaust cam within the last week. they are no longer offered, This is why I had to use or make shift the dodge SRT4 cams to work in the 420a I have a set of SRT4 stage 3 cams and have done so flawlessly but if you can find a set that is for sale snag them up because you aint going to find them again

 

[ChristianP2506]

They’ll perform fine with a turbo, too. Dedicated forced induction cams for 420A are designed to improve exhaust velocity to get the turbo going sooner (and reduce overlap in some applications), they will make a bit more torque on spoolup and lose a bit of top end power. They’re not worth hobbling yourself while you remain NA in the hope that you’ll turbocharge somedaye

Do you know where I can find info on timing with aftermarket cams? Is it still the same marks? The previous owner claimed he installed some but my engine is misfiring and I have a code that the timing skipped a tooth or more…

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

Do you know where I can find info on timing with aftermarket cams? Is it still the same marks? The previous owner claimed he installed some but my engine is misfiring and I have a code that the timing skipped a tooth or more…

If they are indeed aftermarket cams, you don't just slap on the original cam gears, time it and call it good . Cams usually have a 4 degrees advancement ground into them, so you would need to retard or advance the intake/exhaust with adjustable cam gears to hit the perfect power range or even alter the power range were you want it.

If timing wasn't set right to begin with which can be a pain on the 420a, or the camshaft sensor or the magnet that is attached to the exhaust camshaft itself might be on its way out. all of these can pop the p1390 code! or Skipped tooth or crankshaft position sensor/camshaft position sensor issues

If they are Crower cams, you can just look up the cam card info on there website since that are still accessible, just can buy the 420a cams.

example below is the cam card for the Crower Stage 2 64462 (for turbo grinds its 64462T)

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