Resolved 2G Engine Rebuild

[RubyEclipse]

Hello everyone! I just purchased my 1996 Eclipse GST a few months ago, had some issues with a few different things. Most recent was car was smoking and running very uneasy, so I decided to pull the engine. I am going to do a full engine rebuild-ish, I bought new wisco heads, still looking at the rods I want, if there’s anything anyone thinks I should buy and upgrade I would love help! Trying to push more power but not an insane amount seeing how I want this to be more of a daily but not quite. Thank you guys!

 

[pauleyman]

Alrighty what do we think of this 16G? Is it worth a shot or no? I’m gonna try and have my buddy get a closer picture to make sure it’s not a fake. It looks pretty good to me, but again what do I know. If you guys think I just need to go back to stock let me know, I’m also wondering if the fault of the last turbo lies in me routing the feed to the head, am I getting enough oil pressure??

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That is a 14b all day long.

 

[RubyEclipse]

That is a 14b all day long.

Got it, ok sweet. Is the 14b any good? I don’t know anything about it. Maybe the turbo I had purchased before is also not a 16g.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Got it, ok sweet. Is the 14b any good? I don’t know anything about it. Maybe the turbo I had purchased before is also not a 16g.

Its kinda meh? Not as fast spooling as a stock T25, with a bit more max boost and only slightly more top end. Its starved up top, cause its small, but when you got no working alternative - its freaking awesome.

 

[Noranuzoki]

I love reading and seeing this forum build. The support this dude has received is awesome. I'll chime in as well if needed but you guys really got this dude covered

 

[RubyEclipse]

Its kinda meh? Not as fast spooling as a stock T25, with a bit more max boost and only slightly more top end. Its starved up top, cause its small, but when you got no working alternative - its freaking awesome.

I like it, I might consider getting one later on, but I feel like I’d want more of a kick when my car is ready.

I love reading and seeing this forum build. The support this dude has received is awesome. I'll chime in as well if needed but you guys really got this dude covered

No kidding!! They have been the absolute best teachers, mentors, and friends man. I seriously am in all of your guys debts for all of your help. Thank you all so very much.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Here is a Justin Whitesell, @JusMX141, built S16G. It's uses a different inducer/exducer than the 14b. He hasn't been on here in a couple years, but is THE turbo guru!

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[RubyEclipse]

Here is a Justin Whitesell, @JusMX141, built S16G. It's uses a different inducer/exducer than the 14b. He hasn't been on here in a couple years, but is THE turbo guru!

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Man that thing is beautiful!!!

Well crap… it wasn’t the turbo boys. I really am starting to think that noise is internal. I don’t know what happened, but I think I blew or broken something on the inside. I don’t even know what to look for, drop the oil pan and see if anything is loose?

Could it be a rod? Or even if a bolt fell down or something? I mean I don’t even know. I don’t know what a rod knock sounds like, so im just throwing out things.

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[kyler021]

Could it be a rod? Or even if a bolt fell down or something? I mean I don’t even know. I don’t know what a rod knock sounds like, so im just throwing out things.

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Honestly to me it just sounds like an exhaust leak. You see the cloud of dust when you rev it? The exhaust gases could be throwing dust and stuff around, since the gases are making its way out of the pipes.

Forgive me if that's not the noise you're talking about. It most definitely is not a rod knock though.

About a year ago, I was convinced the ticking noise I was hearing from my car was a lifter tick. Turns out it was just an exhaust leak out the side of the exhaust manifold where the water pump is.

 

[RubyEclipse]

If it is an exhaust leak how do I figure that out or check for it? Also, this is back to the old exhaust manifold, the stock one that didn’t have any problems. So how could an exhaust leak still be present?

it almost sounds like something is very loose like that shouldn’t be. Could be just me thinking that, but it really does sound like something is jumpin around in there. And whatever that awful wirring noise is, it’s drivin me nuts. I don’t want to break something worse you know?

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[kyler021]

If it is an exhaust leak how do I figure that out or check for it? Also, this is back to the old exhaust manifold, the stock one that didn’t have any problems. So how could an exhaust leak still be present?

The gasket could have been messed up upon removal or reinstallation, bolts could not be fully tight. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the metal exhaust manifold gaskets are one time use only, so if you took it off and put the same one back on, there may be a higher chance of leakage.

The correct way for you to detect leaks is to use a smoke machine and stick it up the tailpipe (that's what she said) and the smoke will come out of where the leak is. What I did is use soapy water (while the engine and everything is cold) and spray around the gasket mating surface. The soap will usually bubble and show you where the leak is. I can't say if I recommend this to you or not, as I wouldn't want soapy water in my engine bay.

Edit: you can see where gases may be coming out in that video. There is dust or gases or something coming out of that exhaust manifold

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[RubyEclipse]

The gasket could have been messed up upon removal or reinstallation, bolts could not be fully tight. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the metal exhaust manifold gaskets are one time use only, so if you took it off and put the same one back on, there may be a higher chance of leakage.

The correct way for you to detect leaks is to use a smoke machine and stick it up the tailpipe (that's what she said) and the smoke will come out of where the leak is. What I did is use soapy water (while the engine and everything is cold) and spray around the gasket mating surface. The soap will usually bubble and show you where the leak is. I can't say if I recommend this to you or not, as I wouldn't want soapy water in my engine bay.

Yeah me too, especially if it burns off. Great joke btw. I do not however have a smoke machine, something I can use in its place?

 

[kyler021]

Yeah me too, especially if it burns off. Great joke btw. I do not however have a smoke machine, something I can use in its place?

From a different forum: "Dangle a piece of tissue around the exhaust and exhaust mating surfaces and look for the leak to blow on the tissue causing the tissue to move. Works best when you can do it in a non windy environment. Safety note: do not enclose yourself in a garage with a running car."

I may add. If you do this, DO NOT hold the tissue/paper onto the exhaust manifold and let the car get hot as crap. I am not responsible for injuries, try at your own risk

 

[RubyEclipse]

From a different forum: "Dangle a piece of tissue around the exhaust and exhaust mating surfaces and look for the leak to blow on the tissue causing the tissue to move. Works best when you can do it in a non windy environment. Safety note: do not enclose yourself in a garage with a running car."

I may add. If you do this, DO NOT hold the tissue/paper onto the exhaust manifold and let the car get hot as crap. I am not responsible for injuries, try at your own risk

Of course not. I also do not have an enclosed garage which is good or bad depending on how many oil spills you have.

 

[CrackedDSM]

It's 100% an exhaust leak. It's either a crack underneath the manifold where you can't see it from the top/looking down, probably near the collector, or it's probably from the missing nut I see on one of the studs for the manifold to head. When you rev it a clear cloud of dust shoots up, so it's around that area. Could also be something stupid like someone didn't use a turbo to manifold gasket and it's just flange-to-flange there. A significant exhaust leak like that will 100% have a line of black soot showing where it's been leaking out, so just remove the exhaust manifold and check around. Then look at the turbo to manifold flanges on both the turbo and the manifold if the head's exhaust ports check out.

Use a lot of light and check slowly/thoroughly. If all that passes, check around the o2 housing where it bolts to the turbo. Then look at downpipe.


Edit: Cylinder two's exhaust port is missing both nuts for the manifold. I can almost guarantee it's leaking from there. Probably not the only spot, but it's an issue.

 

[RubyEclipse]

It's 100% an exhaust leak. It's either a crack underneath the manifold where you can't see it from the top/looking down, probably near the collector, or it's probably from the missing nut I see on one of the studs for the manifold to head. When you rev it a clear cloud of dust shoots up, so it's around that area. Could also be something stupid like someone didn't use a turbo to manifold gasket and it's just flange-to-flange there. A significant exhaust leak like that will 100% have a line of black soot showing where it's been leaking out, so just remove the exhaust manifold and check around. Then look at the turbo to manifold flanges on both the turbo and the manifold if the head's exhaust ports check out.

Use a lot of light and check slowly/thoroughly. If all that passes, check around the o2 housing where it bolts to the turbo. Then look at downpipe.


Edit: Cylinder two's exhaust port is missing both nuts for the manifold. I can almost guarantee it's leaking from there. Probably not the only spot, but it's an issue.

This is my stock manifold and gasket, so this hopefully mean my other turbo actually isn’t blown?? Because I’d absolutely love to put that other one back on!! I will replace this metal gasket, because it is bent. And I will add a bolt and nut on, im wondering what could be leaking on both manifolds and doing that, I will check when they connect to the down pipe and the head itself. I think one or 2 of them are stripped out, so I am going to have to go through and retap them. Anyways, I will let you all know what I find!! Thank you all again. @kyler021 and @CrackedDSM you guys have been really helping me out, i really appreciate all of your inputs, you’ve both been really helping me out a lot!!

 

[Noranuzoki]

This is my stock manifold and gasket, so this hopefully mean my other turbo actually isn’t blown?? Because I’d absolutely love to put that other one back on!! I will replace this metal gasket, because it is bent. And I will add a bolt and nut on, im wondering what could be leaking on both manifolds and doing that, I will check when they connect to the down pipe and the head itself. I think one or 2 of them are stripped out, so I am going to have to go through and retap them. Anyways, I will let you all know what I find!! Thank you all again. @kyler021 and @CrackedDSM you guys have been really helping me out, i really appreciate all of your inputs, you’ve both been really helping me out a lot!!

The major things to check for with turbos is shaft play, compressor, & turbine wheel. If the turbo's shaft doesn't have a whole lot wiggle in it then its alright. If your fins are chipped then thats an issue as well. But there really isn't a whole lot to it.

 

[RubyEclipse]

The major things to check for with turbos is shaft play, compressor, & turbine wheel. If the turbo's shaft doesn't have a whole lot wiggle in it then its alright. If your fins are chipped then thats an issue as well. But there really isn't a whole lot to it.

Well it definitely wasn’t my turbo like I had thought, that’s a relief that it’s not blown. Both of these have zero play, I mean like the absolute tiniest bit.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

If it is an exhaust leak how do I figure that out or check for it? Also, this is back to the old exhaust manifold, the stock one that didn’t have any problems. So how could an exhaust leak still be present?

When my exhaust manifold/turbo/o2 housing gaskets were bad, i tested for it by stuffing my *clean* shopvac in the muffler and put it in reverse to blow air...then i sprayed soapy water all over the manifold, downpipe, exhaust, etc...Kind of like a reverse boost leak test. Should be easy to see where its leaking whether, gaskets, cracks, etc.

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[kyler021]

This is my stock manifold and gasket, so this hopefully mean my other turbo actually isn’t blown?? Because I’d absolutely love to put that other one back on!! I will replace this metal gasket, because it is bent. And I will add a bolt and nut on, im wondering what could be leaking on both manifolds and doing that, I will check when they connect to the down pipe and the head itself. I think one or 2 of them are stripped out, so I am going to have to go through and retap them. Anyways, I will let you all know what I find!! Thank you all again. @kyler021 and @CrackedDSM you guys have been really helping me out, i really appreciate all of your inputs, you’ve both been really helping me out a lot!!

Remember, if you put that old bigger turbo back on, supporting mods and a tune are REQUIRED (You can get away without a tune on a 14b I think, refer to the turbo part numbers I posted above). That means shelling out the money for DSMLink at least, and more money for a tune.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

You absolutely have to seal up the exhaust for proper operation. An exhaust leak causes the O2 sensor to "think" your motor is running lean, so it may try to compensate by adding more fuel when it really doesn't need it. If you were working with a remote tuner, that would be a first thing to fix before continuing.
Pops

 

[RubyEclipse]

When my exhaust manifold/turbo/o2 housing gaskets were bad, i tested for it by stuffing my *clean* shopvac in the muffler and put it in reverse to blow air...then i sprayed soapy water all over the manifold, downpipe, exhaust, etc...Kind of like a reverse boost leak test. Should be easy to see where its leaking whether, gaskets, cracks, etc.

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Awesome!!! I’ll definitely do this when i am home.

Remember, if you put that old bigger turbo back on, supporting mods and a tune are REQUIRED (You can get away without a tune on a 14b I think, refer to the turbo part numbers I posted above). That means shelling out the money for DSMLink at least, and more money for a tune.

I’ll hold off before putting that turbo back on then. I’ll wait till i get more money. But at least now I know it works! thank you all!!

You absolutely have to seal up the exhaust for proper operation. An exhaust leak causes the O2 sensor to "think" your motor is running lean, so it may try to compensate by adding more fuel when it really doesn't need it. If you were working with a remote tuner, that would be a first thing to fix before continuing.
Pops

You got it, thank you!!

 

[Bigbeanbird]

Ok you got it, I am absolutely willing to climb up this mountain, if you think it would be better to push more later I will. I’m thinking it’s going to be better to just start more stock and get it running and reliable before I start trying to make more hp. Let me know what you think I should do.

Before I really start boosting, I just want a reliable daily. I don’t make enough money to really start spending yet.

Shoot, who does have enough money to start spending..!! But we do it anyway..*hehehe*

 

[RubyEclipse]

Shoot, who does have enough money to start spending..!! But we do it anyway..*hehehe*

isn’t that the truth!!!

This is the correct state of my down pipe before my cat, it’s lookin decently rough. I am getting a new exhaust manifold gasket since I’ve been using the same one for a while. I haven’t done any tests quite yet, but I think that needed to be fixed first. I also need to pick up 2 nuts for the studs. And a nut for the stud in the middle. I’m trying to think of things that have stayed the same on both of the exhaust systems that would make each manifold make those noises.

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I may have never heard of an exhaust leak, but I seriously don’t think this is it. I mean this sounds internal like something that is not supposed to be, is rattling around or very loose.

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[BLACK'98DSM]

I would take the valve cover off and have a look at the valve train. You have exhaust leaks for sure but I also agree that something is loose/rattles. It doesn't sound like bottom end though.

 

[RubyEclipse]

I would take the valve cover off and have a look at the valve train. You have exhaust leaks for sure but I also agree that something is loose/rattles. It doesn't sound like bottom end though.

That makes me feel a lot better. I checked the head and nothing seemed out of the ordinary.