Resolved 2G Engine Rebuild

[RubyEclipse]

Hello everyone! I just purchased my 1996 Eclipse GST a few months ago, had some issues with a few different things. Most recent was car was smoking and running very uneasy, so I decided to pull the engine. I am going to do a full engine rebuild-ish, I bought new wisco heads, still looking at the rods I want, if there’s anything anyone thinks I should buy and upgrade I would love help! Trying to push more power but not an insane amount seeing how I want this to be more of a daily but not quite. Thank you guys!

 

[pauleyman]

You bought an evo 8 turbo? That won't work.

 

[RubyEclipse]

You bought an evo 8 turbo? That won't work.

I’ve just now figured that out. I read quite a few things that said they would work, it does not. Exhaust mounts are different.

So since I now have 3 turbos, my stock one, the 16G which is a Chinese one, and a 16 G evo 8. What do I do next? I thought this was a bolt up; it was obviously not. Should I rebuild the Chinese one and use it? Or buy an evo 8 exhaust manifold? What do you guys think I should do next.

 

[kyler021]

So since I now have 3 turbos, my stock one, the 16G which is a Chinese one, and a 16 G evo 8. What do I do next? I thought this was a bolt up; it was obviously not. Should I rebuild the Chinese one and use it? Or buy an evo 8 exhaust manifold? What do you guys think I should do next.

I definitely would not use a Chinese one, and I don’t think an Evo 8 turbo would work even with an Evo 8 exhaust manifold. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong here. Also, did you ever get a tune with the upgraded turbo? Any supporting mods? Definitely don’t run a bigger turbo if you haven’t gotten a tune and supporting mods. A Evo 3 16g turbo is the correct one that’ll bolt up to the stock exhaust manifold, and they’re not that expensive. I would put the stock turbo back on till you can figure out the rest of the problems.

 

[RubyEclipse]

I definitely would not use a Chinese one, and I don’t think an Evo 8 turbo would work even with an Evo 8 exhaust manifold. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong here. Also, did you ever get a tune with the upgraded turbo? Any supporting mods? Definitely don’t run a bigger turbo if you haven’t gotten a tune and supporting mods. A Evo 3 16g turbo is the correct one that’ll bolt up to the stock exhaust manifold, and they’re not that expensive. I would put the stock turbo back on till you can figure out the rest of the problems.

Okay, that’s what I was thinking too. And no I do not have any other supporting mods other than a large intercooler, I was not aware id need Anything else? I did not thing a small 16G was much bigger than the T24 or T25 whichever is the stock for my car. Where can I find a reliable evo 3 turbo?

 

[pauleyman]

So since I now have 3 turbos, my stock one, the 16G which is a Chinese one, and a 16 G evo 8. What do I do next? I thought this was a bolt up; it was obviously not. Should I rebuild the Chinese one and use it? Or buy an evo 8 exhaust manifold? What do you guys think I should do next.

Please do not attempt to run that evo 8 turbo. It doesn't even face the same direction. It does not work easily or with any sort of cost effectiveness. What's wrong with the other two?
My apologies in advance but at this point you've seen enough stuff so this will sound harsh. You really need to do some research before parting with your cash. Speaking from experience, slow down, plan ahead. Impatience is the death of many car projects or sometimes just cars in general.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Please do not attempt to run that evo 8 turbo. It doesn't even face the same direction. It does not work easily or with any sort of cost effectiveness. What's wrong with the other two?
My apologies in advance but at this point you've seen enough stuff so this will sound harsh. You really need to do some research before parting with your cash. Speaking from experience, slow down, plan ahead. Impatience is the death of many car projects or sometimes just cars in general.

I will sell the EVO 8 turbo then. The Chinese one just blew, and the stock T24/25 whichever is stock, doesn’t fit the new intercooler set up. I am going to have to modify it.

 

[pauleyman]

your choices are likely as follows.
Buy another chinese 16g, fab the new piping. Skip the intercooler for now. Get a real 14b or 16g. Not necessarily in any order. I would not consider rebuilding the chinese 16g if would even be rebuildable. All will depend on budget I would think. At this point you've demonstrated enough enthusiasm to get the job done. Turbo replacement is pretty easy anyway.

 

[kyler021]

I will sell the EVO 8 turbo then. The Chinese one just blew, and the stock T24/25 whichever is stock, doesn’t fit the new intercooler set up. I am going to have to modify it.

I agree with Paul here. There is so much info here on the Tuners. Definitely do your research on whether things will fit, supporting mods etc.

As for where you can find a turbo: DSMTuners classifieds, facebook groups. I wouldn’t worry about this until you fix the current CAS problems and stuff.

Supporting mods are key as well. Usually, when you upgrade the “air” system, you should upgrade the fuel system. For a small 16g, a set of upgraded injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and a little bigger fuel pump should be okay. These are your supporting mods. GET A TUNE. I saw you getting on it in one of the recent videos, and I don’t remember seeing if you got a tune. (forgive me if this isn’t the case). A good way to blow an engine is making major upgrades without the ECU knowing about the changes. Therefore a tune is required for things like bigger turbos, upgraded cams etc. Please don’t take anything I said as a personal attack, Im just trying to help a fellow DSMer

 

[Bigbeanbird]

I will sell the EVO 8 turbo then. The Chinese one just blew, and the stock T24/25 whichever is stock, doesn’t fit the new intercooler set up. I am going to have to modify it.

Paul is dead on.. slow down, plan ahead, don’t go full drag race set up, you know.. patience is a virtue grasshopper.. shoot, sometimes even when you have all the right parts it won’t run.. always something.. and remember, one thing does something for another, on down the line .. time to get it running..!!!

I think I have some bad news after all of that, I think my turbo might have just blown. Did a few up and backs, really nothing super crazy, then my power steering started to go out, I have a leak in the line somewhere for sure. But when i started to oreilys i hear an AWFUL noise, I mean it sounded like a left a rock in the piston chamber. Took off the valve cover, nothing to be seen, was really hoping too. Then I revved it, went up sorta rocky, and crashed when it came down. It sounded horrid I mean really bad, drove it home and took it really slow, it was doing okay, boost gauge going up and down, and speeding up smoothly. Then I parked it, revved it, and nothing. This noise that was there for like 25 minutes just went away?? Or went fairly silent. My power steering pump I think is shot. But not the turbooo!! I barely got anyyyy use out of it. when it cools I’m going to take off the piping and feed for any movement. It was really rough, I will not lie. I am terrified for this car. The video doesn’t even give it justice of exactly how loud it was.

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Also worried about my clutch, it seems a little grabby when I push in the clutch pedal. Like scratchy? I feel the pedal almost fighting me weirdest thing ever.

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This is now the sound of it, with the intake removed from the turbo. whatever noise it is, it is getting worse.

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Sounds like an exhaust leak

I think I have some bad news after all of that, I think my turbo might have just blown. Did a few up and backs, really nothing super crazy, then my power steering started to go out, I have a leak in the line somewhere for sure. But when i started to oreilys i hear an AWFUL noise, I mean it sounded like a left a rock in the piston chamber. Took off the valve cover, nothing to be seen, was really hoping too. Then I revved it, went up sorta rocky, and crashed when it came down. It sounded horrid I mean really bad, drove it home and took it really slow, it was doing okay, boost gauge going up and down, and speeding up smoothly. Then I parked it, revved it, and nothing. This noise that was there for like 25 minutes just went away?? Or went fairly silent. My power steering pump I think is shot. But not the turbooo!! I barely got anyyyy use out of it. when it cools I’m going to take off the piping and feed for any movement. It was really rough, I will not lie. I am terrified for this car. The video doesn’t even give it justice of exactly how loud it was.

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Also worried about my clutch, it seems a little grabby when I push in the clutch pedal. Like scratchy? I feel the pedal almost fighting me weirdest thing ever.

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This is now the sound of it, with the intake removed from the turbo. whatever noise it is, it is getting worse.

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Man, that does sound like hell..!!

 

[RubyEclipse]

Paul is dead on.. slow down, plan ahead, don’t go full drag race set up, you know.. patience is a virtue grasshopper.. shoot, sometimes even when you have all the right parts it won’t run.. always something.. and remember, one thing does something for another, on down the line .. time to get it running..!!!


Sounds like an exhaust leak


Man, that does sound like hell..!!

I’ll tell you it sure sounded and felt like it. Going to throw my old set up back on there, I think I am also going to fabricate something To take place of the other piping for the intercooler

I have a buddy who has another 16G made for the eclipse. Is it even worth it to go pick up another? I don’t really know anything. If you guys thing my car cannot handle it, and will blow up another, I will not get it. I only bought this one in the first place because of the intercooler set up. I will listen and be patient with anything you guys say. I can make something to fit my stock T25 for the intercooler. I did not think the 16g was much bigger and my car seemed to be running nicely, still a bad idea to get another? Let me know. Thank you all.

 

[kyler021]

I have a buddy who has another 16G made for the eclipse. Is it even worth it to go pick up another? I don’t really know anything. If you guys thing my car cannot handle it, and will blow up another, I will not get it. I only bought this one in the first place because of the intercooler set up. I will listen and be patient with anything you guys say. I can make something to fit my stock T25 for the intercooler. I did not think the 16g was much bigger and my car seemed to be running nicely, still a bad idea to get another? Let me know. Thank you all.

If you do not plan on getting a tune with it, don't buy it. It may not look bigger, but it will flow MUCH more air than a stock T25. I'm pretty sure I've seen people flow about double the air with a 16G vs a T25. If you plan on buying it, look for Mitsubishi part numbers. The real 16Gs will have a big "TD05H" casting on the side, and a part number that looks like:
49178-01470 (Evo 3 Big 16g),
49178-01420 (Big 16g),
49178-01520, and 49178-05200 (small 16g).

I've attached a picture of my Evo 3 16g for reference. I would not get a Chinese/Ebay 16g for your car. Just for peace of mind.

-Kyle

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[RubyEclipse]

If you do not plan on getting a tune with it, don't buy it. It may not look bigger, but it will flow MUCH more air than a stock T25. I'm pretty sure I've seen people flow about double the air with a 16G vs a T25. If you plan on buying it, look for Mitsubishi part numbers. The real 16Gs will have a big "TD05H" casting on the side, and a part number that looks like:
49178-01470 (Evo 3 Big 16g),
49178-01420 (Big 16g),
49178-01520, and 49178-05200 (small 16g).

I've attached a picture of my Evo 3 16g for reference. I would not get a Chinese/Ebay 16g for your car. Just for peace of mind.

-Kyle

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Awesome, thank you so much!! I’d love to get a tune, but I have no idea where to go, and how much that will be. I could always get it and sit on it and wait, or just wait in general till my car and I are ready. I have some big leaks I need to get checked out like now. Those have been an absolute PAIN to find though.

 

[kyler021]

Awesome, thank you so much!! I’d love to get a tune, but I have no idea where to go, and how much that will be. I could always get it and sit on it and wait, or just wait in general till my car and I are ready. I have some big leaks I need to get checked out like now. Those have been an absolute PAIN to find though.

Rixracing and EFISpecialties both have remote tuning options. They’ll remote into your laptop or whatever you use to monitor your ECU (You need DSMLink for this, I forgot if you have this or not). And change the stuff on the ECU themselves. They’ll do a couple revisions until it’s dialed in.

But yeah definitely wait until you and the car are ready! If you decide against the turbo, at least you’ll still have a running car

 

[RubyEclipse]

Rixracing and EFISpecialties both have remote tuning options. They’ll remote into your laptop or whatever you use to monitor your ECU (You need DSMLink for this, I forgot if you have this or not). And change the stuff on the ECU themselves. They’ll do a couple revisions until it’s dialed in.

But yeah definitely wait until you and the car are ready! If you decide against the turbo, at least you’ll still have a running car

This is very true!! I do not have DSMLink sadly, I really want to get it but I will not be able to afford it for awhile. Plus I have to do everything to where I can pass the terrible California Smog stuff.

What size is the oil port for the t25? I thought it was an M12 but I think it could be a 10, what do you guys think?

 

[Bigbeanbird]

This is very true!! I do not have DSMLink sadly, I really want to get it but I will not be able to afford it for awhile. Plus I have to do everything to where I can pass the terrible California Smog stuff.

I did t know you were in California..?? It suck’s huh, but,I know a guy and for a small fortune, it WILL PASS..!!! so you’re throttle body has 3 hoses on the top..??

This is very true!! I do not have DSMLink sadly, I really want to get it but I will not be able to afford it for awhile. Plus I have to do everything to where I can pass the terrible California Smog stuff.

If I was you, I would invest in the Link.. you have to have it to change parameters in the ECU to compensate for any mods you have

 

[kyler021]

What size is the oil port for the t25? I thought it was an M12 but I think it could be a 10, what do you guys think?

From this thread: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/t25-turbo-oil-feed-thread-pitch.312545/

"The T25 oil supply doesn't use a banjo bolt, it uses a 1/4" flare-type metal line and fitting. It would be 1/4" line thread....nothing else will work."

 

[RubyEclipse]

From this thread: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/t25-turbo-oil-feed-thread-pitch.312545/

"The T25 oil supply doesn't use a banjo bolt, it uses a 1/4" flare-type metal line and fitting. It would be 1/4" line thread....nothing else will work."

Okay awesome, I will try that. I bought a 12 and a 1/4th we shall see what fits. I had something else in there before, a line made by my local shop so I don’t know what it would fit too.

I did t know you were in California..?? It suck’s huh, but,I know a guy and for a small fortune, it WILL PASS..!!! so you’re throttle body has 3 hoses on the top..??


If I was you, I would invest in the Link.. you have to have it to change parameters in the ECU to compensate for any mods you have

What about the throttle body? And I will be getting Link soonish, I got some stuff I gotta pay for first. But hopefully eventually.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Alrighty what do we think of this 16G? Is it worth a shot or no? I’m gonna try and have my buddy get a closer picture to make sure it’s not a fake. It looks pretty good to me, but again what do I know. If you guys think I just need to go back to stock let me know, I’m also wondering if the fault of the last turbo lies in me routing the feed to the head, am I getting enough oil pressure??

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[kyler021]

Alrighty what do we think of this 16G? Is it worth a shot or no? I’m gonna try and have my buddy get a closer picture to make sure it’s not a fake. It looks pretty good to me, but again what do I know. If you guys think I just need to go back to stock let me know, I’m also wondering if the fault of the last turbo lies in me routing the feed to the head, am I getting enough oil pressure??

Looks to me like it's a real Mitsubishi turbo, but not a 16G. That looks more like a 14b turbo from a 1G DSM.
Before you decide on that turbo, read this: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/14b-turbo-swap-on-stock-ecu-2g.540242/

This turbo may be a bit easier to run on a stock fuel system compared to a 16G. Again, do research on this before committing.

In my opinion, if I absolutely needed this as a daily for school or whatever, I'd leave the stock T25 on until I can save enough money for a tune and all supporting mods. However, if I was really itching for a bit more power, a 14b would probably be a good turbo to run on a daily.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I whole heartedly agree with @BLACK'98DSM .
Once you sell ONE PART as you are parting it out, you have all of the time to take off said part, pack, ship, etc not to mention that NOW the car is a part out.
You do you, but these are OLD. Things just don't get better with age (Dam, I can attest to that...). With all the guidance you've gotten and can get, you would be happy as a lark with it. Let me just say look at @CrackedDSM . That man has worked hard but now feels pretty happy about his hard work. We realize you don't have all the time in the world but if you love the car, keep it in 1 piece and go buy a beater to get you from A to B while the bugs get worked out.
I hope you can enjoy the smile you get from a properly running 4g63 turbo car.
Marty

Brother, I'll save you the trouble of reading through my 104 page build thread with these cliff notes.

*average week*

Monday: I'm gonna install X part I just received.
Tuesday: X part is installed, fought me all GOD D*MNED DAY, but it's in, test drive tomorrow.
Wednesday: X part is fine, Y part broke, I hate this car and I'm selling it. Burn everything to the ground and dance naked.
Thursday: *Sulks as people give advice and help talk me down from the ledge*
Friday: Okay guys I'll just fix Y part. Thanks.
Saturday: Fixed Y part, finally.
Sunday: God I love this car, so happy with my work, but I think Z part needs to be replaced...

Rinse and repeat for like TWO YEARS STRAIGHT.

But, I stuck with it. Glad I did too because fast forward to now and I daily drive the car. Put about 70ish miles on it per day going to work and back. It makes 400whp, it has A/C, power steering, all the creature comforts and is honestly my ideal DSM street car. Does good AWD burnouts too.

Don't give up. I'll give advice someone gave to me that really helped.

Don't part out, don't give up. If you need to, take some time away from the car. Put it under a car cover, focus on something else for awhile. You'll be glad you did.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

My opinion is to go back to stock.

1. It will allow you to establish a baseline and you can build off of what you know is right. I was against the deviation from your original plan in the first place. The car wasnt in the space to know what normal is yet and adding other parts complicates things.
2. I had a big 16g and the current EvO16g that i have now when I didnt have the supporting mods (injector, fuel pump, afpr, ECMLink) running at stock boost. Maybe others find it fun, but i did not. The spool came later with no real additional power to show for it and maybe thats why the car had an illusion that it felt underpowered to me vs how the t25 felt. Different story with the supporting mods and boost turned up, but yeah... spent a few years wishing i had the T25 back.

 

[CrackedDSM]

My opinion is to go back to stock.

1. It will allow you to establish a baseline and you can build off of what you know is right. I was against the deviation from your original plan in the first place. The car wasnt in the space to know what normal is yet and adding other parts complicates things.
2. I had a big 16g and the current EvO16g that i have now when I didnt have the supporting mods (injector, fuel pump, afpr, ECMLink) running at stock boost. Maybe others find it fun, but i did not. The spool came later and maybe thats why the car had an illusion that it felt underpowered to me vs how the t25 felt. Didnt story with the supporting mods and boost turned up, but yeah... spent a few years wishing i had the T25 back.

I 100% concur. I got told to do this, and in my situation it was just impossible to do. If I could have though, I 100% would.

Put it back to stock, do every bit of maintenance and make it purr like a silky baby kitten. It'll also be EXTREMELY reliable this way.

From there, as you learn and get used to it, mods will mean more, make more useful power, and you'll appreciate it more.

I'm glad I did what I did with mine, because I started with making 200HP reliable and there were a LOT of kinks to work out. Jeebus was there a lot of kinks. Then I made 300HP reliable, and even more kinks popped up. Now we're in the 400HP territory and I'm sure more kinks will come but it's so much nicer than having to fight every demon and kink off at once.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Looks to me like it's a real Mitsubishi turbo, but not a 16G. That looks more like a 14b turbo from a 1G DSM.
Before you decide on that turbo, read this: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/14b-turbo-swap-on-stock-ecu-2g.540242/

This turbo may be a bit easier to run on a stock fuel system compared to a 16G. Again, do research on this before committing.

In my opinion, if I absolutely needed this as a daily for school or whatever, I'd leave the stock T25 on until I can save enough money for a tune and all supporting mods. However, if I was really itching for a bit more power, a 14b would probably be a good turbo to run on a daily.

It’s marked as TD05 something I couldn’t make out. I looked it up and it’s marked as An EVO 1-3 turbo. But you are correct, I am itching for that extra power. But I do not need it, I just want a working car to be honest.

I 100% concur. I got told to do this, and in my situation it was just impossible to do. If I could have though, I 100% would.

Put it back to stock, do every bit of maintenance and make it purr like a silky baby kitten. It'll also be EXTREMELY reliable this way.

From there, as you learn and get used to it, mods will mean more, make more useful power, and you'll appreciate it more.

I'm glad I did what I did with mine, because I started with making 200HP reliable and there were a LOT of kinks to work out. Jeebus was there a lot of kinks. Then I made 300HP reliable, and even more kinks popped up. Now we're in the 400HP territory and I'm sure more kinks will come but it's so much nicer than having to fight every demon and kink off at once.

I do agree with that, I think I will be going back to the stock route then. If you guys think that Is the better idea, I will do it. I’ll push off the Evo16G till the cars ready; I have a power steering leak in the rack and pinion, I see it leaking from the boot, so that is my next priority. I think since my pump ran out of oil when it was running, it’s shot so that will likely have to be replaced. Thank you guys for all of your input, it’s always very helpful. I will be dialing in to find these leaks and patching them, and then just really enjoying the car for a while. I want to enjoy it as it is, I see many people throwing boost and upgrade and then regretting the car, and driving it feels like a chore. I do not want that. I want a fun car that I can drive and just enjoy, I know it won’t be worry free, at least for a while.

 

[kyler021]

It’s marked as TD05 something I couldn’t make out. I looked it up and it’s marked as An EVO 1-3 turbo. But you are correct, I am itching for that extra power. But I do not need it, I just want a working car to be honest.

TD05H is just the compressor housing size, the part number on the bottom left covered with oil seems like a 14b part number. Also, the compressor wheel looks different than my 16g, which is an Evo 3 16g. If the part number is 49178-01010, 49178-01030 (looks like it's this one from the picture), 49178-01400, 49178-01410, then it's a 14b.

 

[RubyEclipse]

TD05H is just the compressor housing size, the part number on the bottom left covered with oil seems like a 14b part number. Also, the compressor wheel looks different than my 16g, which is an Evo 3 16g. If the part number is 49178-01010, 49178-01030 (looks like it's this one from the picture), 49178-01400, 49178-01410, then it's a 14b.

You got it. I’ll tell the guy I’ll come back and get it later on if I want it, but you’re all right, I don’t need it as of now. It’s still got plenty of kick and power, and I still enjoy it so very much.