20g?

[aJaayyee]

I used the search but i can't find my answer, i just bought a gsx with upgraded everything except for injectors and fuel pump. my question is, can i run the 20g with stock fuel pump and injectors? or do i need to upgrade? im not trying to build hp right now, i want to get used to what i've got first but my concern is if im safe where i stand?

 

[92AWDHX40]

First grab a wideband, grab a tuning device, grab some 650s or larger keep boost low until you have the proper support for that turbo, you add more airflow, youll need more fuel. Your safe at stock boost levels, get a walbro 190, and again a way to tune the larger injectors, and a way to see whats going on, I just bought link and called it a day, I waited then I got that now Ive upgraded and will grab larger injectors for future set ups. You can tune more fuel with link.

 

[aJaayyee]

First grab a wideband, grab a tuning device, grab some 650s or larger keep boost low until you have the proper support for that turbo, you add more airflow, youll need more fuel. Your safe at stock boost levels, get a walbro 190, and again a way to tune the larger injectors, and a way to see whats going on, I just bought link and called it a day, I waited then I got that now Ive upgraded and will grab larger injectors for future set ups. You can tune more fuel with link.

okay so me trading my 680cc injectors for an apexi neo would be pointless because i need them to fuel my turbo, right?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Keep those injectors for your setup.

 

[aJaayyee]

Keep those injectors for your setup.

okay so what i need is
1. wideband which is a/f gauge right?
2. walbro 190 or 255 ?
3. tuning device

then i should be good to go?

 

[jayson427]

If you do buy a safc2 you will still have to pay someone to install it and tune it for you. I would look around for a shop that's familiar with it. Look on eBay you might find one pretty cheap. I bought mine off of here brand new for 150 bucks.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Wideband I have link never used anything else and a 190 is great if you get 255 youll need a afpr , more money.

 

[aJaayyee]

If you do buy a safc2 you will still have to pay someone to install it and tune it for you. I would look around for a shop that's familiar with it. Look on eBay you might find one pretty cheap. I bought mine off of here brand new for 150 bucks.

why cant i install it myself?

Wideband I have link never used anything else and a 190 is great if you get 255 youll need a afpr , more money.

ahh and i just looked up widebands, pretty expensive

 

[92AWDHX40]

No not compared to melted pistons 179 most places ive even seen them in the classifieds, no way around it gotta pay to play, cheaper than injectors or a turbo.

 

[aJaayyee]

No not compared to melted pistons 179 most places ive even seen them in the classifieds, no way around it gotta pay to play, cheaper than injectors or a turbo.

guy i bought it from said i will not brake this motor

 

[TSicktalon]

The stock fpr can handle a 255 just fine. No point in wasting money on a tiny 190.

You can hook up the SAFC yourself, just follow the instructions and splice into the correct wires.

You need a Wideband more than anything else. It lets you know whethere the car is operating safely. I personally wouldnt drive it at all without one.

If you can afford it, there are much better options of fuel control than a SAFC. You are really on the edge of not being able to control the injectors if you run 680's. But you need as much injector as possible with the 20g.

Best solution:

1000cc injectors- $200
Wally 255- $75?
DSMLink- $4-500 used
AEM UEGO- $150 (or less used)

Your car will be running safely and effectively for ~$800

Or half assed, on the ragged edge for less.

guy i bought it from said i will not brake this motor

ANY motor will break if it's too lean.


You have much to learn.

 

[aJaayyee]

The stock fpr can handle a 255 just fine. No point in wasting money on a tiny 190.

You can hook up the SAFC yourself, just follow the instructions and splice into the correct wires.

You need a Wideband more than anything else. It lets you know whethere the car is operating safely. I personally wouldnt drive it at all without one.

If you can afford it, there are much better options of fuel control than a SAFC. You are really on the edge of not being able to control the injectors if you run 680's. But you need as much injector as possible with the 20g.

Best solution:

1000cc injectors- $200
Wally 255- $75?
DSMLink- $4-500 used
AEM UEGO- $150 (or less used)

Your car will be running safely and effectively for ~$800

Or half assed, on the ragged edge for less.



ANY motor will break if it too lean.


You have much to learn.

what is AEM UEGO?
and also i do not think it's running lean because the fuel cut still chimes in when it needs to. and yes, i do have much to learn

 

[agentorange313]

The stock fpr can handle a 255 just fine. No point in wasting money on a tiny 190.

I am no DSM expert but its common practice to upgrade you FPR when you go to a 255, the common 255 is a "high pressure" pump, or "HP" version. I can't for sure you will over run it, I dont have any data on fuel pressure with a stock FPR and a 255.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/264442-why-do-you-need-afpr-255-a.html#post151222901

what is AEM UEGO?

Its a common wideband made by AEM Eletronics. There are better wideband for our DSMs on the market. I picked up a Innovate MTXL for 156 new, thats 6 more bucks than the average used AEM. In addition it come with datalogging software where you can log your A/F ratio.

I am using a SAFC NEO and wideband on my jeep xj to tune it. Same wideband as my DSM, MTXL, and its a easy and affordable tune, but I am not looking for the same HP as my dsm. It was so gain better MPG and a little more torque and horses. I do not suggest it for fine tuning a DSM.

 

[aJaayyee]

okay so yes to the 255 and afpr, the wideband..but what about the injectors, are mine not going to cut it? 680cc. im thinking of flashing my ecu instead of link

what is the difference between air fuel pressure regulator and a wideband?

 

[TSicktalon]

AEM widebands are 160 shipped on amazon. My car has a 255hp with the stock regulator on the rail and is fine. I've not checked the pressure on it, but my fuel settings are perfectly normal.

680's aren't ideal for a 20g, but they will do ok as long as you stay within their duty cycle range. Hell I have 550's atm. they're at 73%IDC at 17 psi, so they will be maxed out way before the turbo is having fun.

P.s. I have a 20g as well.

 

[aJaayyee]

AEM widebands are 160 shipped on amazon. My car has a 255hp with the stock regulator on the rail and is fine. I've not checked the pressure on it, but my fuel settings are perfectly normal.

680's aren't ideal for a 20g, but they will do ok as long as you stay within their duty cycle range. Hell I have 550's atm. they're at 73%IDC at 17 psi, so they will be maxed out way before the turbo is having fun.

Aem 30 4100 Digital Wideband Uego Controller Air Fuel Ratio Full Warranty | eBay

this what i need?

i was told that the 20g maxes out at 500hp and then i saw an injector rubric type thing on this forum and it said 680's were good for that range? now im confused

 

[agentorange313]

okay so yes to the 255 and afpr, the wideband..but what about the injectors, are mine not going to cut it? 680cc. im thinking of flashing my ecu instead of link

what is the difference between air fuel pressure regulator and a wideband?

Do some research and find out how much the 20g flows. CFM or lbs.min.
Use the link below and see if the injectors meet you needs. the 680cc aren't listed, but I would use the 660cc as a reference for tuning safety, you wont run your injectors at 100% duty cycle. Fuel pumps are also listed, commons ones including the Wally 255

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/244522-injectors-fuel-pumps.html

 

[aJaayyee]

ok thanks. i need to get those receipts from the person i bought it from so i can see exactly what ive got

 

[TSicktalon]

No normal 20g is going to hit 500whp. 400 is upper end of the spectrum.

20g flows 40-48 lbs/min depending on the setup and calculate your injectors at 80% to stay on the safe side.

Per the chart, 850s would be the smallest ideal injecotr size for 93 octane. e85 is a whole nother ballgame.

 

[97_4g63t]

I would first get a wideband then start doing some research. Decide what your goals and spending limit for the car are. Do all your maintenance and learn how to do a boost leak test. Before you buy anything research it. There are lots of garbage upgrades that do more harm than good. Afpr, wb, fuel pump and boost gauge are going to be needed if you plan on modding. They're the basics that you won't have to upgrade again later down the road.

 

[koafallenangel]

We just installed one on my buddies GSX hes got stock injectors and stock pump. Hes got a upgraded FPR and DSM link. hes on 20lbs solid. If you upgrade your pump to 255 walboro and 550ccs should run much better as well depending on the tuning id say 30lbs but make sure you got a triple layer metal headgasket amd ARP headstuds.

 

[aJaayyee]

okay ill do some research but guys if this car has had the 20g in for almost 2 years does that mean that it is good to go in this current set up?

 

[My1GLaser]

How much boost has it been running? If it is running 10 psi, it really doesn't matter if it's a 20g or 14b, or T25.

When you start turning the boost up is when you need to have enough fuel and the stock injectors and fuel pump aren't enough. But without knowing your air to fuel ratio by using a WB, you won't know exactly when you start to reach the dangerous limit.

There are reasonable estimates of what the stock inj & pump can handle, but they are just estimates cause every car is different. You need the proper tuning tools for the safety and longevity of your motor!!!

For instance;
What if your alternator belt isn't tight and it is slipping in the upper rpms and you are only getting 10v to your fuel pump and your fuel pressure drops by 5psi? Your fuel filter is clogged and your inj are gummed up and the fuel atomization is horrible and is not helping to cool the air/fuel mixture. You have so much carbon build-up on your pistons that you CR is closer to 8.8:1 and there are hot spots all over your combustion chamber causing preignition. You end up running dangerously lean at 12-13 psi but don't know it cause you don't have a WB, and you don't have a datalogger so you can't see that it's already knocking. Now your buddy's car runs 16-17psi on the stock fuel system without any problems so you decide that must be safe for your car too and push yours to 17 psi and burn a hole in your piston or detonate and bend a rod. Bye bye motor...

 

[aJaayyee]

Right now I'm running 18 psi. He says he's buried the needle on the boost gauge a few times

 

[My1GLaser]

Well then you are very lucky that scenario hasn't become a reality for you!!! No it's not safe at all to run that just because you've been getting away with it so far!