2.3L stroker build suggestions?? Chime in please!!

[EclipticalGS]

Well, i had a fresh motor put in, but reflecting the work done (not by me) I am going to need/want a new motor in at least 6 months.

I was introduced to a stroker by a member on here named twicks, watched his vids and love his beastly 2.3. But, I want this just for a DD/ WW.

Another thing that struck me is where the power curve is, and the fact that I like a stock 7K redline just for mental reasons.

So here I am engine stand in my bedroom, with a 6-bolt bare block.

Goals of 400-450 hp.

The block is being sent in soon for the typical stuff,

*.020 over
*hot tank
*blasted
*decked
*fluxed

and now comes my choice of a stroker kit....

Who has used MAPerformances Stroker kit??

Eagle Crank, Eagle rods, and Wiseco or mahle? pistons, acl race bearings, and arp mains for $1650 sounds good...

or should I piece my own together for $1550 with:

Eagle Crank
Scat rods
Eagle or Ross Pistons
Acl bearings
Arp mains

Things I will plan to run/ some questions.

Block:
*6-bolt .020
*oil squirters
*BSEK
*6-bolt front case, new seals, gaskets, etc.
*Stroker kit, still not sure what to get yet, 9.0 Compress.
*Arp head studs, mains, rod bolts

Head:
*stock 2G head that had an oem rebuild, new seals, lifters, valves, springs, retainers, guides. all oem
*So my plan is just to add some Supertech springs/retainers and some 272's to the head, if anyone thinks i need something else in the head, lemme know!?
*Slight port work if i have it apart
Since strokers dont need to high rev, I am justt doing the springs and retainers so I can have 272's. All the other oem stuff should take me to my goals, if not maybe a Seat grind grind and oversize valves.

Turbo/plumbing:
*HX-40 i got, rebuilt, snagged it for $350.
*DSM flanged BEP housing for the hx40, going to be ceramic coated
*FP race manifold, ceramic coated
or does anyone think a dsm flange wont flow good??
Should i get a T3 mani. and T3 BEP Housing?
*Open dump 02 housing fabbed by me, with 38mm flange, ceramic coated
*Tial Gate
*Punishment DP
*Thermal R&D cat back
*Greddy Type S BOV
*Punishment intercooler
*Stock 2G ported intake
*3.5" GM MAF

Tuning/fuel/spark:
*Ecmlink v3
*Wally 255, unless my 190 will suffice?
*1000cc injectors, 93 Pump Gas
*Aero FPR
*Stock Ignition with MSD wires, ngk 8e's plugs.

Clutch stuff/tranny:
*ACT 2600 PP
*Exedy Disk
*Xact LW Flywheel
*oem TOB, oem fork, oem slave, steel braided line, oem master
*Poly mounts, solid shifter bushings
*Going through my tranny and doing some strengthening. Shouldnt be hard its a FWD .

Random stuff:
*my fabbed sealed (2) Catch cans, should be well for DD.
*keeping all of my accesories, PS, A/C, CC.
*wires are already tucked enough
*my fabbed alt. heat shield, 02 dump killed my friends alt.

Suspension:
*Tokico blues
*Megan springs
*new ball joints, rod ends, oem axles
*Hawk pads, Drilled/slotted rotors
*front upper brace, rear strut bar, rear c-pillar.
*18x7.5 Konig Ziege with 245/35/18 BF Goodrich g-force

Car will not be tracked much, maybe once/ twice a year. Mainly just want a 2.3 torque monster.

I have 70% of the stuff listed up there, some of the things I dont have yet are where I asked questions, If anyone can help answer some of those questions, or give me some input, even if you want to try to sway me to stay 2.0L, go for it!!

This is not a necessarily a "build" thread because it wont expect to be done within the next 6-months, Im just going over my part list and want you all to catch flaws or parts that I need. Thanks!!

 

[1gDSM4g63]

If you're goals are only 400-450 HP an HX-35 is fine for that and will spool even faster. As for the power curve, you'll probably see spool 400-500 rpm earlier than the 2.0l block but a stroker would limit your redline. Personally I'd rethink your decision on whether or not to go to a stroker. The HX-35/HX-40 is a pretty damn fast spool turbo already.

 

[EclipticalGS]

Well, I got the hx-40 for future room of expansion and I got it very cheap.

Also, the reason I want to build a 2.3, is I can save a lot of money on unnecessary head work because a 2.3 will use stock redline, or even under sometimes.

When i can practically leave the head stock and make 450hp with ease without having to go to 8000-9000 rpms, I think a street car would benefit from that. Although a 9000 rpm redline would benefit in the top speed of every gear, im not really looking for 1/4 times, just streetable power.

But thanks!! I will take that into consideration, i just think a 2.3 will meet my needs, and the fact i like the stock redline.

 

[SOADweskey]

Well, I just got done doing a 2.3l 6-bolt in my 2G. You can check my profile for the full stats but let me just share some things I learned so far.

When tuning my engine we found that the stroker doesn't like anywhere near as much timing advance as a 2.0. On 91 octane we could only get 4deg total advance before the engine got knock happy. On e85 I make way more power and can crank the timing up to 14deg by 7000 RPM.

So if you have access to e85 all the better but even if you don't
I assume you have 93 in Michigan which should do better than 91. But even for 93 I would recommend methanol injection.

I was able to make 442awhp with a bolt on internally gated 5031E. So I don't think you will have any trouble making more than that with a bolt on HX-35.

All in all I'm happy with my setup except for already blowing oil seals in my turbo so I am looking for a HX-35 with a bolt on housing.

Oh yeah, as far as piston choice, last I checked the Mahle pistons were only available in 9.5:1 which is way to high for pump gas. Mine are 8.8:1 wisecos and pump gas still isn't all that much fin.

 

[EclipticalGS]

Well, like I said I already paid for a hx-40, i want to use it, maybe someday ill go higher in hp, im sure I will deal with the small lag, but it wont be that much of a difference...

What flange do you think though for the BEP housing?

I have an FP race mani. I was hoping i could just get a Dsm flanged BEP housingbut my friend told me that the T3 hotside would flow more, well i was under the impression since having a stroker, i could get away with a dsm flange.

Also, whats your boost pressure for your 442hp? Also, i do have access to e85, and another stations opening up soon. I also have a meth injection kit missing half of the stuff, maybe ill use it.

But im still trying to think of the difference in the stroker and what it will do...

2.0:
*high redline, which means higher speed in each gear
*needs a built head if going over 7500 usually
*each gear is usually 5 mph faster from higher redline

2.3:
*stock redline
*stock head, cams
*stock gear speed
*very quick torque/power in the power band
*quick spool

Heres what I sort of think about comparing, I just think the stroker would be good for quick power and not so much top end.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

Bottom End:
-Eagle Crank
-Scat rods
-Wiseco Pistons

To me, that makes for a good DD bottom end. The crank is stronger then a Mitsu crank (that have cracked into pieces before), the Scat rods are strong and also have an additional oiling provision hole on the top of the rod for better lubrication at high rpms (even if running a stock rev limit, better cooling and lubrication) and then the Wiseco pistons are said to be the most drivable pistons for a street car.

Top side:
-Manley Springs and retainers
-Any "272" cam will do

The Manley springs are some of the toughest and cheapest springs available. Within normal limits they'd work perfectly. And for your goal, you have a choice of any of the "272" classified cams.

 

[EclipticalGS]

Cool, thats good to here, i have been up all night sanding the imperfections off this block, it's going to be so well done, no shortcuts or half assing...

So you do think the eagle crank, Scat rods, and Wiseco pistons a good choice...

What about ross pistons? Do you think Wisecos are the best choice? because im not going to be grannying this car all day, ive heard good things and experienced good #'s with ross in the past, thats why they first came to mind, but i am open to try Wiseco's, even though I have heard bad things about the skirts, failing from wrong ring end clearances??

But like I said, im not doing any super high reving, im not in need to flow a super amount so I DONT need new valves, guides, seals, or lifters really. My oem stuff should work. Also I dont have a ton of money either, this is going to be budgeted very discretely (fiance) With slight bank drops every week or so. The biggest issue im having is the banter with my friend over Dsm flange, and T3.

What would be the best for my application?

Thanks, keep making suggestions, Im scrutinizing my list right now, and parts will be ordered.

Edit: Just something I was wondering before I send this block out, If im puting a stroker kit in and everything, whats the point in using the 6-bolt block??

I would sure love to get to use my oil filter housing, my crank sensor, and my 7-bolt flywheel.

But I already reemed my 2G head for a 6-bolt, nvm im just being ocd. *smoke cigarette*

 

[FLASH1970]

I would consider doing a 2.0 with some head work. Get some dual springs, some 272's, maybe some port work done. Spend the money there instead of on a 2.3 bottom end with a stock head. The Holset turbos are known for holding boost until redline so you can rev it high with the 2.0 and still make good power.

 

[SOADweskey]

I have an FP race mani. I was hoping i could just get a Dsm flanged BEP housingbut my friend told me that the T3 hotside would flow more, well i was under the impression since having a stroker, i could get away with a dsm flange.

Also, whats your boost pressure for your 442hp? Also, i do have access to e85, and another stations opening up soon. I also have a meth injection kit missing half of the stuff, maybe ill use it.

I was at 27psi for my 442 HP tune. Also the DSM flange will be fine, I have seen an HX40 make 531awhp with the FP race manifold and the DSM flanged BP hotside with a stock 2.0 6-bolt bottom end, on e85 of course. If you look up soadweskey's video's on youtube I have a clip of Mike's car trapping in the 130's with that set up.

Edit: Just something I was wondering before I send this block out, If im puting a stroker kit in and everything, whats the point in using the 6-bolt block??

I would sure love to get to use my oil filter housing, my crank sensor, and my 7-bolt flywheel.

But I already reemed my 2G head for a 6-bolt, nvm im just being ocd. *smoke cigarette*

Using a stroker rotating assembly doesn't fix the inherent problems with the 7-bolt thrust bearings. If you want the extra piece of mind a 6-bolt is still the way to go.

 

[FLASH1970]

Edit: Just something I was wondering before I send this block out, If im puting a stroker kit in and everything, whats the point in using the 6-bolt block??

Crankwalk is the biggest thing. I think the main journal size of the 6 bolt is bigger too.

If your goal is 400-450hp, stick with the stock 6-bolt rods. No need to go bigger. Just get some forged pistons. A forged piston, 6-bolt rod combo should be good for 550-600hp. It's been done before... I have a block at the machine shop right now and that's what I plan on doing. That'll save you some money too.

Make sure you give your stuff to the machinist and have him tell you what size pistons and bearings to get. Don't just assume you'll need certain size pistons or bearings.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

I would consider doing a 2.0 with some head work. Get some dual springs, some 272's, maybe some port work done. Spend the money there instead of on a 2.3 bottom end with a stock head. The Holset turbos are known for holding boost until redline so you can rev it high with the 2.0 and still make good power.

Beehive springs are better and cheaper than dual springs, they are just as strong but not as harsh on the valve train as dual springs are.

 

[Evil04c]

Well, I just got done doing a 2.3l 6-bolt in my 2G. You can check my profile for the full stats but let me just share some things I learned so far.

When tuning my engine we found that the stroker doesn't like anywhere near as much timing advance as a 2.0. On 91 octane we could only get 4deg total advance before the engine got knock happy. On e85 I make way more power and can crank the timing up to 14deg by 7000 RPM.

So if you have access to e85 all the better but even if you don't
I assume you have 93 in Michigan which should do better than 91. But even for 93 I would recommend methanol injection.

I was able to make 442awhp with a bolt on internally gated 5031E. So I don't think you will have any trouble making more than that with a bolt on HX-35.

All in all I'm happy with my setup except for already blowing oil seals in my turbo so I am looking for a HX-35 with a bolt on housing.

Oh yeah, as far as piston choice, last I checked the Mahle pistons were only available in 9.5:1 which is way to high for pump gas. Mine are 8.8:1 wisecos and pump gas still isn't all that much fun.

Are you saying you can't have a pump gas tune w/ a 9:5:1 compression motor?

 

[SOADweskey]

If you did a 91 octane pump gas tune with a 9.5:1 compression motor in my experience you wouldn't be able to run very much boost as knock would become a problem at lower boost numbers.

I really don't know how the overall hp and torque numbers would be. I just know that in my engine with 8.8:1 compression I can only run about 5* timing advance and 18psi on 91 octane.

 

[khartley]

I'm running 18psi on 91 octane on a GT10 with my stroker and I only saw knock when I was tuned too rich. Just throwing that out there.

 

[my98gsx]

ide say Mitsu crank ( 100mm ) manley rods, and anything other than weisco pistons ( i melted 3 sets i think they are junk ) and use the acl race bearings.

 

[SOADweskey]

I'm running 18psi on 91 octane on a GT10 with my stroker and I only saw knock when I was tuned too rich. Just throwing that out there.

What afr were you tuning for? My 91 tune we shot for 11:1 and hit it pretty dead on.

 

[viperlp01]

To tell you the truth I was thinking stroker to but then I realized why??? I am AWD and it seems like the right thing to do.. I drove in my buddies stroker GVR4 and the amount of torque gain is not what i expected.. He is running 9:1 wisecos 2.3l and the torque lets say is not overwhelming to the point where i want to waste money on a crank.. Instead of spending that money on the crank I bought a snow performance meth kit.. Im sure I will have the torque I want and with the meth I can really bring on the timing and lean out the stock map since the meth will add to the amount of fuel burned..

I would also say adding any low end torque would suck for a FWD.. I don't know why you would want added the torque being FWD on the street without running D/Rs daily.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

I'm going to put this out there also. Any stroker does not like timing advance. You can make it easier by running a piston with a lower compression ratio and by also running a thicker head gasket. Both will lower your static compression ratio allowing you to run more boost or more timing.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

When i can practically leave the head stock and make 450hp with ease without having to go to 8000-9000 rpms, I think a street car would benefit from that. Although a 9000 rpm redline would benefit in the top speed of every gear, im not really looking for 1/4 times, just streetable power.

A 2.3L is a 15% increase in displacement over a 2.0L engine, which results in a 15% increase in MPS (mean piston speed, the average speed the piston travels throughout it's stroke). MPS is the important factor in determining a safe redline, not RPM. What this means is that a 2.3L engine spinning at 7500 rpm (stock rev limit) has the same MPS as a 2.0L engine spinning at 8625 rpm (7500 x 115%). This is why a 2.3L engine should have a lower redline than a similiar-spec 2.0L non-stroked engine. Of course, the valvetrain doesn't care about MPS, only RPM, so it is easier to get away with stock valvetrain on a 2.3 over a 2.0 due to the recommended lower rev limit.

Remember that you will get a large increase in airflow per revolution with a 2.3L engine, so head porting, oversized valves, cams with higher lifts, are something to think about.

Another advantage to a stroker engine is the fact that it's easier to get a tranny to shift well at a lower RPM, so if you're shifting at 7500 instead of 8500 or 9000, your tranny and syncros will be happier and last longer (until the increased torque of the 2.3L engine strips the teeth off the gears )

When tuning my engine we found that the stroker doesn't like anywhere near as much timing advance as a 2.0. On 91 octane we could only get 4deg total advance before the engine got knock happy. On e85 I make way more power and can crank the timing up to 14deg by 7000 RPM..

4 degrees total advance is extremely low.. I'd never run an engine with that low timing at higher RPM. Timing needs to increase linearly with RPM in order to maintain a consistent burn throughout the RPM. As RPM, and therefore MPS, increases, the spark needs to be fired earlier and earlier in order to burn the mixture completely before the piston travels downward. Think of it as throwing a football at someone who is running perpendicularly to you and in front of you. The faster they run, the farther ahead of them you have to aim in order for the ball to hit them square on.

As far as I can see, the fact that the stroke has increased should not significantly affect the ideal timing advance. Since the stroke is increased, MPS is increased, which by itself would mean a higher timing advance would be necessary. However, increasing stroke also increases piston dwell time at TDC, which in itself may be a reason to lower timing advance. Because of these two things combined I believe that ideal timing advance on a 2.3L engine shouldn't be very different.

I attribute the increased knock on pump gas on a 2.3L over a 2.0L to the increased compression ratio, and overall "noisiness" of built motors in general, not to mention the increased harmonic imbalance that a 2.4L crankshaft produces.

I have a 2.3L 8.8 Wiseco motor, and on straight 91 octane, I can get 14-15* peak timing advance at 18 psi, and 11-12* peak advance at 21 psi. This is at 10.7-10.9 AFR. Lowering the timing down to 4-5* peak would make the car feel very sluggish, similiar feeling to riding the brakes slightly under boost. Are you sure your base timing is at 5*?

ide say Mitsu crank ( 100mm ) manley rods, and anything other than weisco pistons ( i melted 3 sets i think they are junk ) and use the acl race bearings.

I'd highly recommend an Eagle crank for your 2.3 build. I've broken an OEM 2.4 crank, and know others who have as well. Luckily, I replaced the crank and bearings and was on my way, this same engine has over 50,000 miles on it and still has 190+ psi compression all across, with my Wiseco 8.8/Scat combo, and has seen over 25 psi 95% of it's life, and over 30 psi for a decent amount of it. I however do recommend the ACL race bearings, never had a single problem with them.

 

[Calan]

I agree with most all of what Wes and Beau said, but I'll add a couple of thoughts.

The piston choice for a stroker may come down to how far over you are boring the block. When I put my 2.3l together, I hadn't found the Ross pistons which were available in .030, so I went with the Wisecos which were .040 over. I got them at a really good price during a vendor's sale, and after I found the .030 Ross's a couple days later, it was too late.

Another related consideration is the headgasket. Depending on the bore size, a particular type or brand of HG may be harder to find. I ended up going with a Cometic 3 layer MLS.

As for tuning, I agree with Wes that the 2.3l definitely does not like timing advance, although I'm not nearly as low as he is. My car can typically hit 14-16* of advance on 91 piss gas with some 50-50 WAI, at an AFR of around 10.8-11.0 or so at about 22 psi. It doesn't like more timing, and it doesn't like anything much leaner or richer. E85 changes all of that of course, but it's still much more picky than the 2.0 was.

But... it's a blast to drive. I still haven't put a bigger turbo on it, so it runs out of air up top. The E16g is just evil and 1st gear is basically unusable at WOT.

BTW - I'm running a rebuilt stock head with FP2's (for now), Eagle crank and rods, Wiseco, stock main bolts/ARP head studs, and ACL Race bearings. I also went with a Fluidampr balancer due to the increased torsional stresses.

 

[donniekak]

You are going to hate life, and curse all of the time and money you spent on this, the first time you roast the tires until about 80 mph.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

You are going to hate life, and curse all of the time and money you spent on this, the first time you roast the tires until about 80 mph.

Wow, I just assumed the OP was AWD and didn't even bother to check. That's gonna be a LOT of torque for 2 tires. Even with AWD, on my 2.3/GT30R setup, the car pulls amazing even from 4000 rpm, peak torque is right at 4500-4600. With enough boost, it will spin all 4 tires thru 2nd gear, and I'm on 255 width sticky tires. You won't get that with a 2.0/GT30R combo.

 

[Calan]

You are going to hate life, and curse all of the time and money you spent on this, the first time you roast the tires until about 80 mph.

Very good point.

I'm on AWD and I can spin all the way through 1st and a good part of 2nd when it's running right, on 17x8's. For a FWD car, I wouldn't go stroked unless I had some serious traction up front.

Wow, I just assumed the OP was AWD and didn't even bother to check.

Same here

 

[thecman02]

To tell you the truth I was thinking stroker to but then I realized why??? I am AWD and it seems like the right thing to do.. I drove in my buddies stroker GVR4 and the amount of torque gain is not what i expected.. He is running 9:1 wisecos 2.3l and the torque lets say is not overwhelming to the point where i want to waste money on a crank.. Instead of spending that money on the crank I bought a snow performance meth kit.. Im sure I will have the torque I want and with the meth I can really bring on the timing and lean out the stock map since the meth will add to the amount of fuel burned..

I would also say adding any low end torque would suck for a FWD.. I don't know why you would want added the torque being FWD on the street without running D/Rs daily.

I wouldn't take the experience you had in my car this winter to heart. I was running low boost 15psi, on a tune only good enough for break in really. Once I get link and tune it in I think your going to be jealous haha. I really need to get some suitable stroker cams and a decent SMIM to let that baby breath.

I do agree on having a stroker being a waste on a FWD.

 

[Guzman08]

ok sorry to sound dumb but.. i really dont know what a stroker is.. but i wnated to ask if this would be a stroker/? i plan on building a good setup for a little over 500hp. . this was going to be my setup..
got them from different vendors in dsmtuners. [PARTS: Price: Brand: Needs: BRAND:
Fuel Injectors RC 1200cc /Lucas 1200cc
Turbo Precision SC6076
Pistons Wiseco K597M855 4g63 7bolt 85.50mm (+.020" Overbore) 9.0:1
Rods 7 Bolt - Mitsubishi Eclipse GST, GSX i 2.0 Manley H

Camshafts BC 280
Cam Gears AEM tru time
Radiator Hoses Gates
ECMLink ECM

Fuel Rail AEM
Head Gasket Cometic which ever one works for my build not sure
Wastegate Tial 38mm
BOV Greddy type R
Exhaust Manifold AMK
Bearing Kit $ Acl race bearing
Valve Spring w/ retainers $ BC
Valves Ferrea 6000 1mm oversize
Pulley Kit OBX
Timing Belt GATES
Oil Cooler Kit CXRacing