Street Build 1g build - The Real Life Trials and Tribulations of building a DSM

[Vegas Smith]

I saw you might send it in for dbw so maybe inquire about getting a new map installed. The reason is you pretty much max out your inputs even with the aux harness with fuel pressure, oil, coolant pressure etc. I may have used every single one even while using the onboard map.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I saw you might send it in for dbw so maybe inquire about getting a new map installed. The reason is you pretty much max out your inputs even with the aux harness with fuel pressure, oil, coolant pressure etc. I may have used every single one even while using the onboard map.

That's a good idea. They mentioned also adding a few extra inputs to the board as well when I emailed about it. I'll see about a larger onboard MAP as well.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I saw you might send it in for dbw so maybe inquire about getting a new map installed. The reason is you pretty much max out your inputs even with the aux harness with fuel pressure, oil, coolant pressure etc. I may have used every single one even while using the onboard map.

Well it seems they can't swap on a new on board MAP sensor. So I guess I'll have to stick with my gm 4 bar

 

[DreamChaser7]

Hmm, maybe it’s an older version. Mine has the 4bar newer boards have the 7bar. I have Link’s external 4bar sitting around but I use their onboard.

I was always targeting the ECMLink but intrigued by this. The only concern I have is it doesn't support the knock sensor according to the website. How do you overcome this? I've read many people argue about this in other posts but believe it is still a feature I would not want to go without.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I was always targeting the ECMLink but intrigued by this. The only concern I have is it doesn't support the knock sensor according to the website. How do you overcome this? I've read many people argue about this in other posts but believe it is still a feature I would not want to go without.

I don't run a knock sensor because I use e85. I didn't run a knock sensor on ecmlink either. Not saying that's the "best" thing to do but I'm fine with it. I think you can run a knock sensor you just have to send the ecu in for an upgrade.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I was always targeting the ECMLink but intrigued by this. The only concern I have is it doesn't support the knock sensor according to the website. How do you overcome this? I've read many people argue about this in other posts but believe it is still a feature I would not want to go without.

It does support a knock sensor but the jumper has to be soldered on from the knock pin onto the back of the board. I plan on doing this with my board.

 

[Anfurnyy]

So some parts showed up this week.
My 90* npt - AN adapters, My Degree wheel, and my DBW pedal adapter.
The difference in height from the old straight NPT - AN adapter plus the 90* AN fitting was roughly 20mm. The new fittings should fit perfect.


This pedal adapter is incredibly nice. Black Anodized Billet Aluminum w/titanium hardware


I decided to get started on my fuel lines. -8AN Feed and -6AN Return. I decided to relocate my Flex fuel sensor to the return side so that it wasn't a restriction in my Feed line. i don't foresee an issue with this despite one of my previous posts in this thread regarding where the sensor should be placed.
In relocating it i needed to modify/ make the lines to fit off the return side. it goes: Regulator w/-6an Male out > -6 AN Female > 3/8's Quick disconnect > Flex fuel sensor > 3/8's Quick Disconnect > Rest of return line. Puts the sensor right on the firewall basically right next to the heater core in and out, Perfect.


I fed them down through the Subframe where the Stock lines run. You do NOT have to drop this to get these fed through but it would sure help. Especially when using the 3D printed holders for these lines. Its a bit tough to try and fit that little bolt down in there.
Lines are ran the same as stock route to the tank and are just sitting in the hatch area until i can clean out the fuel tank and get it re-mounted so i can size the line correctly. Passed the pump housing cover ive got about 7 feet of each line. So i should have enough to make the rest of the engine bay lines.


Now both lines are connected to where they need to go from the tank to the bay, but i do have a concern on the feed side. Off the fuel filter i have just a straight fitting which makes it curve 90* right behind the subframe. Now it doesn't kink but its a pretty sharp corner. I test fitted a 45* and it makes it point right at the shifter cables so that's a no go. But a 60* fitting.. seems to put it right under. Any opinions on if this straight is okay?


Another concern is that the feed makes a pretty sharp turn right out of that first holder. Again not kinked but the Return line seems to barely touch the Steering column U-Joint boot. both of these holders in the bay are in place and bolted down about 75% but it still seems to hit that boot. I can tuck both lines close to one of the brake hard lines right off the proportioning valve and maybe i can zip tie it there? Is there maybe a better way to route those that anyone can suggest?


All in all it looks great, im pumped to see the fuel lines going in and it all starting to kind of come together. By the end of the week I think ill have my ECU sent out to Link to have them modify it for the E-throttle.

I also need to work on my battery relocation too. Ive never done one and im not sure how to go about mounting it or how i would go about handing the fuses right off the battery in the engine bay. Any suggestions there?

 

[Tyeler18]

I'd be cautious with those plastic push connect fittings on your flex sensor. On the return side you may be OK but those are notorious for blowing off. I've seen a few car fires from them. I use these since they screw on a lock down. Hate to see ethanol spewed all down onto a hot exhaust below it.

Pardon Our Interruption

 

[Anfurnyy]

I'd be cautious with those plastic push connect fittings on your flex sensor. On the return side you may be OK but those are notorious for blowing off. I've seen a few car fires from them. I use these since they screw on a lock down. Hate to see ethanol spewed all down onto a hot exhaust below it.

Pardon Our Interruption

Thanks man I'll definitely consider those for sure. Better safe than sorry

 

[Anfurnyy]

Is it even a street car if you don't have cup holders?! Super excited for this piece. Thanks to Mr. Erik Whisler.


ECU sent out to Link today. I'm sure it will be a couple weeks before I see it again.

For now I'll get the head mounted up and get the cams degreed in and maybe work on the harness a little more.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Okay so i got around to TRYING to degree the cams. I put in the BLE solid lifters and swapping out the valve springs with easier springs. When i fist installed the solid lifters i actually had an issue with the intake valve getting stuck slightly open when the lifter was installed but the exhaust side was closed fully. I swapped the lifters and the issue followed.


As it turned out one of the lifters had a burr on the top ridge which allowed it to sit about 90% into the lifter hole, but not completely. I ended up having to sand the bur down and the lifter sat in there fully. Goes to show even good hardware can have issues. I havent touched these since i got them. They stayed in their bag safe in a special toolbox drawer.


ARP L19 Head studs installed. To do the Degree process i decided to use my old used OEM head gasket and not waste my good new one. I torqued the Head down to 100ft/lbs. I literally cannot find any install instructions for these so i went off a few others recommendations for torque spec.


I got the timing belt installed and everything ready for Degreeing. I started by VERY VERY crudely taping the degree wheel to the longer "crank" bolt i picked up at Ace.. this was a terrible idea. The wheel wasnt straight and was wobbling around.. I decided to use by brain and then i switched the wheel and installed it on the bolt with a nut threaded on the bolt after the wheel to pinch it between the crank snout and the nut. this works perfect and keeps the wheel straight and sturdy so it wont move around. You can also use the nut to "Lock" the bolt and wheel against the crank so that it for sure wont move. This wheel is a 6" wheel made out of aluminum so you can write on it with a sharpie or whatever you want. It also clears everything on the front side of the motor as far as pulleys and tensioners and what not.


I made the decision to sell my entire turbo setup.. Im looking to just go with a final setup with either a 6266 or a 6466 vband in and out. I put up my external o2 housing, FP manifold and the FP Red turbo and they sold all within an hour. I then turned around and put down a deposit on my @MorrisonFab small runner vband manifold with Hot Parts kit! Right now they are a ways out at 23 weeks.. so itll be awhile before i see it but im beyond stoked to have great hardware, and support a vendor for the platform.



The last couple days i have been fighting constantly with trying to get these cams degreed.. My issue is that i cant keep the bottom of the dial gauge from slipping from its original position on the retainer to off the retainer when the valve starts to close. Im not exaggerating when i say ive been fighting this for almost 10 hours. Just that single issue.. Its causing my events to show way off.
For instance, I fought with the dial gauge slipping and then finally got it to a point where it thought it was good. My Intake Valve Open event was happening at 8* BTDC, but then my Closing event was happening 10* Advanced at 32* ABDC..

 

[TCB91GSX]

Is it even a street car if you don't have cup holders?! Super excited for this piece. Thanks to Mr. Erik Whisler.
View attachment 659451View attachment 659450

ECU sent out to Link today. I'm sure it will be a couple weeks before I see it again.

For now I'll get the head mounted up and get the cams degreed in and maybe work on the harness a little more.

View attachment 659447

View attachment 659448

I found the cup holder to be worthless in this spot, so I actually sandwich this behind the passenger seat and drop my drink in the back there. Works perfect.

 

[Vegas Smith]

If I could offer some advice on turbo setup I'd say be careful what you wish for these big turbos. The 6266 and 6466 are going to be laggy as f***. You really have to want the car to go fast when you're driving it if it you know what I mean. Even my xr71-64s takes a good bit of throttle to really get it moving. You may make a big number but not enjoy driving the car as much.

 

[Anfurnyy]

If I could offer some advice on turbo setup I'd say be careful what you wish for these big turbos. The 6266 and 6466 are going to be laggy as f***. You really have to want the car to go fast when you're driving it if it you know what I mean. Even my xr71-64s takes a good bit of throttle to really get it moving. You may make a big number but not enjoy driving the car as much.

Yeah I understand it'll be fairly laggy. I'm not trying to do pulls through the city or anything. I've ridden in cars that use 6565s and 6466s and I really liked them. Personally I feel like this is going to suite what I want the car to do

 

[Anfurnyy]

For instance, I fought with the dial gauge slipping and then finally got it to a point where it thought it was good. My Intake Valve Open event was happening at 8* BTDC, but then my Closing event was happening 10* Advanced at 32* ABDC..

So with this happening.. if i tried to Retard my intake cam by 10* it would have really messed with my opening events.. Im just getting really inconsistent numbers. Are you supposed to measure the Opening and closing events @ the lift value specified on the cam card? for instance my cam card says:
"Camshaft timing at .040" Valve lift
Intake: Open @ 8* BTDC - Close @ 42* ABDC

OR are you supposed to do your adjustments based off how far off the center line is?

i have Double and triple checked by TRUE TDC with another Dial Gauge as well and its still true to where i set TDC on the wheel.


Any suggestions on how i can keep the damn dial indicator from moving? Ive tried longer extension rods for it, as short as i can possibly go. Ive tightened the mount as tight as i possibly can and it still drifts right off the side of the retainer. These are Kiggly Steel Street springs and retainers.

On a more positive note i was able to find and Acquire a CNC staging brake! Also very excited about this!

 

[Anfurnyy]

So unfortunately i just could not get the dial indicator to sit still when trying to degree my cams. Id wager i put in over 20 hours alone trying to just degree them and i just couldnt, so i decided to just zero the cam gears out and go with it for now. I was really hoping to get them done, but i must be doing something wrong or i have the wrong hardware to do it right.

So i guess its time for a final assembly..
i started tearing the mostly assembled long block down so that i can swap the valve train back to what it's going to be in the end.
I went through and cleaned everything again. The bores with Brake cleaner and coffee filters until they were no longer dirty, and then coated the walls with ATF as well. Cleaned the cam journals in the head. The lifters, rockers all of it. Re-lubed everything and started assembly again. I used an OEM head gasket but i coated it with Copper Spray Head gasket stuff as well. I torqued the ARP L19 head studs to 110ft/lbs in 4 equal increments, waiting to torque down the cam caps until the head was torqued down. Ive heard of issues with Binding if you torque them while off the block because the warping of the head while is torqued.



So this go around i wanted to use an upgraded timing belt. I had a buddy that gave me a deal on a brand new Evo 8 belt and at the time I thought that was the upgraded belt that most people run. At this point i was using Gates Idler and Tensioner pulleys, and an OEM 6 bolt hydraulic tensioner and stock crank pulley with the OEM spacer behind the trigger plate/guide. I ran into an really annoying issue with the Brand new OEM Evo 8 belt wanting to walk towards the back of the cam gears. I made another post for this HERE (figured out how to hyperlink)
The weird part was that when i threw the old gates belt i that i was running previously on it, it stayed right in the middle. I tried flipping the evo 8 belt so that the belt was rotating the opposite way and nothing. Walked either right up flush with the edge of the cam gear or just over it. I gave up and ordered some new OEM idler and tensioner pulleys thinking that they must have been the issue.

In the post i found out that the Evo 9 belt is actually the upgraded belt with Kevlar in it. it just so happens the same buddy let me have an Evo 9 Oem belt as well...so i threw that on to see if it would walk too and it did just a TINY bit. More than acceptable for me though. The new OEM pulleys came in and when i swapped them on the belt didn't walk anywhere whatsoever. Its dead center. WIN.

I finally got around to somewhat deep cleaning the tank the best i could. I added about a half gallon of vinegar and filled the tank up with water until it was overflowing out of the filler neck hose and then propped that side up on some bricks and then filled it some more to try and get the very tippy top of the tank. I left it like that for about 3 days and everyday twice a day i would shake the hell out of it. Finally drained it and it definitely looked better but there was still a little work to do. I bought a toilet cleaning brush from Target and stuffed it in there and went to down cleaning and twisting it into any and every place i could fit it. every so often i would spray it out with the pressure washer. and drain it. then i reached my arm up in there as far it would let me and scrubbed a little with scotch brite pad too. I didn't get very far as the opening is pretty small but it turned out pretty decent. i still wish it was cleaner than it is but i can only do what i can do with what i have. There isn't anywhere locally to get it cleaned at unfortunately.
After just regular spray out with pressure washer:

Soaking with Water and Vinegar:

After Vinegar and water drain:

Final Clean after Scrubbing and what not:

 

[Anfurnyy]

So Next up was taking care of this fuel pump hanger/assembly. I'm going to run dual walbro 450's in this full blown hanger.
Its possible, but it's tricky since the opening in the tank isn't big enough to fit both pumps in at the same time. You have to install one on the hanger completely, and then finagle the 2nd in.



Installing the pumps in that i wanted to make things as accessible and replaceable as possible so i went with the OEM weatherpack connectors that come with the fuel pumps. Im really hoping since the pumps are e85 safe and these came with the pumps that these should be safe to use.
With that being said i wanted to be able to completely remove the cover in the hatch area from the pump so i also used another weatherpack connector here since its going to be in the elements and what not so i figured this would be a good idea. These 2 wires are just the Fuel Level sending signals to the ECU /dash. Im really hoping this will work, i guess we'll find out.



I ordered up some submersible fuel lines this time to use in tank. I eyeballed how long these lines were and got them installed just to see if they needed trimmed. Keep in mind that you don't want the hoses too long or the top of the assembly wont sit down all the way and if its too short you wont be able to pull fuel from the bottom of the tank AND your fuel level gauge will read wrong as well. Getting the length right is a bit of trial and error. I recommend doing this with just one pump at first and then cut the lengths the same for the 2nd pump. Now since there is a baffle in the tank where the float and the pumps sit at you really have to orientate the pumps and socks a towards the long side of the tank since the pumps sit right next to the baffle. You just have to keep this in mind when installing the 2nd pump.


So how i got these 2 pumps to fit was, orientate and completely connect pump #1 ready to go. Pump #2 have the fuel line connected on the pump side and connected as well as the sock. Once its down in the tank, the shift the entire pump assembly over towards the already installed pump #1 side of the tank to make room for the 2nd pump and then slide the pump down into the tank slightly just enough to get the hose over the barb on the assembly. Once its on there get it clamped down keeping in mind the orientation of the hose clamp because there might only be a few ways to get the clamp on it for easier access. Onces you verified the socks are in the right direction and the hose clamp is secured on the lines and barbs youll need to secure the pumps to the Pump assembly itself. Full Blown supplied me with a hose clamp to do this. I unscrewed the clamp completely and opened it up around both pumps but behind the funky grounding rod that sticks off the float assembly This was really tricky to get tightened down but i found it easiest to get the clamp kind of in the area that you need it to be and then tilt the whole pump and everything so that the bolt part of the clamp sticks up so you can get a screwdriver on it. Tighten it down, and then Carefully lower it down into the tank. Be mindful of your float!


The 2nd pump seems to push on the baffle but i was able to start threading on some of the little 8mm nuts sequentially to get it to sit and after a few go arounds i was able to get the whole pump to sit down in there and all nuts installed!

 

[1cleangsx]

Hey man love the build! Congrats on getting the 2 450’s into the Full Blown hanger, I didn’t think it could be done so I went with dual DW340’s. Also one of my little issues I haven’t fixed yet is my fuel gauge not working. I’m not sure if it’s a grounding issue or what but I’m curious if it’ll work on your set up. And I had to throw in my 2 cents on the 6266, so far I’m still on wastegate, 26 psi, s3’s and conservative timing, and I have no regrets! It definitely has some lag, but it’s really not that bad in my opinion, I mean I bought it for 600whp and room to grow and I think I’ll hit it for sure. It hits HARD on 26 psi, can’t wait for 36 psi , anyways I went 62 over 64 because I’m not looking for 800whp, and however marginal it may be the 6266 is more responsive, hope this helps in your decision, and again congrats on the build

 

[Anfurnyy]

Hey man love the build! Congrats on getting the 2 450’s into the Full Blown hanger, I didn’t think it could be done so I went with dual DW340’s. Also one of my little issues I haven’t fixed yet is my fuel gauge not working. I’m not sure if it’s a grounding issue or what but I’m curious if it’ll work on your set up. And I had to throw in my 2 cents on the 6266, so far I’m still on wastegate, 26 psi, s3’s and conservative timing, and I have no regrets! It definitely has some lag, but it’s really not that bad in my opinion, I mean I bought it for 600whp and room to grow and I think I’ll hit it for sure. It hits HARD on 26 psi, can’t wait for 36 psi , anyways I went 62 over 64 because I’m not looking for 800whp, and however marginal it may be the 6266 is more responsive, hope this helps in your decision, and again congrats on the build

Thanks man i appreciate it! the 2 450s weren't hard but they were annoying. Just some careful planning. I didn't want to have to upgrade the pumps again later IF i ever needed more fuel for whatever reason. I noticed that when i originally did the single 450 my gauge also read wrong. I believe that when i filled up it was reading at most 3/4 tank so i'm hoping mine works too!

I'm also leaning more towards the 6266 as well. I have a buddy that said he would give me a good deal on his Gen 2 from his Mazdaspeed 6. And on top of that i'm doing the smaller runner manifold from Morrison and that's what Matt Recommended for a 6266 and a large runner for a 6466. I'm definitely excited and i can't wait to see how it feels in general. The 6266 just seems to fit just a tiny bit better into what i'm looking for out of a turbo.

 

[1cleangsx]

I guarantee you won’t be disappointed, and for what it’s worth mine is fed from the head with morrison’s 12an drain and no issues so far

 

[Anfurnyy]

I guarantee you won’t be disappointed, and for what it’s worth mine is fed from the head with morrison’s 12an drain and no issues so far

Would you mind sharing roughly what rpm you see that 26psi at?

 

[1cleangsx]

Let me check a log

 

[1cleangsx]

3rd gear I see 26psi by 5900rpms. It “hits around 5500, I’m sure the s3’s are partially responsible , but again from behind the wheel it’s not bad, I mean it’s not a 42r , but I haven’t revved it past 7500 yet, once I’ve got 500 on the motor I plan to rev to 8500, so it’ll still be a fat power band, just a little more to the right.

 

[Vegas Smith]

3rd gear I see 26psi by 5900rpms. It “hits around 5500, I’m sure the s3’s are partially responsible , but again from behind the wheel it’s not bad, I mean it’s not a 42r , but I haven’t revved it past 7500 yet, once I’ve got 500 on the motor I plan to rev to 8500, so it’ll still be a fat power band, just a little more to the right.

Probably that stupid t51r mod that's slowing it down. , JK, where did you get it down? Might send mine off.

 

[1cleangsx]

OCDworks. I actually bought the turbo thru them, so far I’m a little disappointed with it tho because for whatever reason on my car it doesn’t have that loud distinctive sound, maybe it’s the straight pipe I don’t know