ECMlink 1G 2.3l, FP2 Cams, ECM link V3, flexfuel/SD setup Can't get car to Idle!!!

[Chiefsublime]

2.3L, FP2 Cams, ECM link V3, flexfuel/SD setup, Omni 4bar, GM IAT, 1200cc FIC's, Borg Warner S300, LC2 WB, JMF SMIM, S90 TB, IAC block off, Walbro 450, Fuel lab FPR 37psi, No boost leaks, No CEL's.

I've been trying to get it to just idle so I can basically do anything with the SOB! I've tried adjusting the global dead times and pretty much anything to just get it to stay running on it's own.

I'm not sure if it's normal, but when cranking my WB 02 shows 7.4 on the gauge then starts reading (if it stays running long enough). I have to feather the throttle to keep it from dying.

I just recently noticed the alt doesn't seem to be charging or it's weak. I don't think/know if 0.1V would be enough to prevent it from idling at all though. It sucks cause I can't set the timing or even get up to the front of the car to look/listen to what's going on!!

Currently global fuel is -46.5, deadtime 355. So far these were the settings that got me closest to stay running, though I'm sure they're not right. It's a lot of maths to figure out where to set those if you're running a mix of E85 and gas. So I added more gas to run it essentially just on gas for now at least til I know it will run and get a grasp of things.

I'm new to ECMLink and EFI tuning in general. I've done a lot of reading/research though. So I feel like I have a descent grasp on the concepts any way and generally I'm pretty good at diagnostics and figuring out solutions. Though being in pretty unfamiliar territory I'll admit I'm pretty stumped. I'm hoping there's something obvious I'm missing or some value is clearly (to someone more experienced) out of whack.

Here's the last log I took having to feather the throttle to keep it running. If anyone has any insight or if I forgot to mention anything your insights would be most appreciated. Thanks!

 

[99dsmer4g63]

I didn’t look at the log because I’m on my phone. Have you adjusted the battery voltage injector offset settings correctly for your injectors?

-Daniel

 

[DSMPT]

The alternator doesn't seem charging at all. I wouldn't mess with tuning until fixing that low voltage issue at least.

 

[chrisman287]

I didn’t look at the log because I’m on my phone. Have you adjusted the battery voltage injector offset settings correctly for your injectors?

-Daniel

Could you explain the right way to do that? I think I saw a video @v8s_are_slow made talking about that a bit

 

[99dsmer4g63]

@chrisman287 Jafro has good video explaining his process of how he calculated them. I’ll do a brief summary below.

First I used the specs sent with my FIC 1200’s to plug in the numbers where they give you the correct offset according to voltage. After using what they gave me I simply added the two numbers and split them in half to get a happy medium of the two.

This is essentially the same thing Jafro does as well. I’m no tuning expert by any means and I’m sure someone who is could explain/or have a better way in general.

I struggled with the first start on my injectors after plugging in my global and dead times. Best thing I did was discovered the battery offset DA tab.

I’m currently riding in the passenger seat to vacation so I’m not sure how much I will be on here the next couple days.

-Daniel

 

[Chiefsublime]

Ok. Thanks, I've never heard of that setting. Where would I find that?

 

[Stapl3]

First I used the specs sent with my fic 1200’s to plug in the numbers where they give you the correct offset according to voltage.

FIC doesn't test their injectors with a DSM driver circuit. Those values are pretty much useless.

The deadtime number on the fuel tab is the EXACT same thing as the injbatteryadj in DA. For example, if you had 200 deadtime in the fuel tab, then changed it to zero and upped all the numbers in injbatteryadj by 200, nothing would change. They are one in the same. The fuel tab adjustment is a global adjustment while injbatteryadj is more precise breaking it down by voltage.

 

[steve]

The deadtime number on the fuel tab is the EXACT same thing as the injbatteryadj in DA. For example, if you had 200 deadtime in the fuel tab, then changed it to zero and upped all the numbers in injbatteryadj by 200, nothing would change. They are one in the same. The fuel tab adjustment is a global adjustment while injbatteryadj is more precise breaking it down by voltage.

Not quite how I would explain it but that's pretty much what we did when making chips, add a OFFSET to all the values.

What direct access feature of DSMLink V3 allows you to do is access some of the ECU tables/maps directly to change values. So the InjBatteryAdj show the default deadtimes the factory programmed for the original injectors for various battery voltages and then you can change them for your injectors. Because how fast injectors open and close is effected by the voltage you use and because the battery voltage varies when you cranking vs cruising the ECU accounts for that so you get close to the right fuel in all cases.

What you don't want to do is use both a global deadtime and InjBatteryAdj cause they add together. Use one or the other.

Deadtime is the delay opening - the delay closing an injector. If you want an injector to spray fuel for 2 miliseconds to need to add in time for how long it takes from when you send the signal to when the fuel starts coming out and subtract how long it takes the injector to stop spraying fuel after you tell it to stop.

 

[Chiefsublime]

The alternator doesn't seem charging at all. I wouldn't mess with tuning until fixing that low voltage issue at least.

That's definitely gonna be the next thing I fix. I'm certainly not trying to do any tuning before I fix that. I'm just trying to get it to idle. With all the work I've done on it, I just really want to hear it run. (without me having to hold the gas pedal down). A little reward for the countless late nights wrenching, busted knuckles, curse words and hours of reading/researching. I don't feel like it's too much to ask.

Not quite how I would explain it but that's pretty much what we did when making chips, add a OFFSET to all the values.

What direct access feature of DSMLink V3 allows you to do is access some of the ECU tables/maps directly to change values. So the InjBatteryAdj show the default deadtimes the factory programmed for the original injectors for various battery voltages and then you can change them for your injectors. Because how fast injectors open and close is effected by the voltage you use and because the battery voltage varies when you cranking vs cruising the ECU accounts for that so you get close to the right fuel in all cases.

What you don't want to do is use both a global deadtime and InjBatteryAdj cause they add together. Use one or the other.

Deadtime is the delay opening - the delay closing an injector. If you want an injector to spray fuel for 2 miliseconds to need to add in time for how long it takes from when you send the signal to when the fuel starts coming out and subtract how long it takes the injector to stop spraying fuel after you tell it to stop.

That's what I understood the injector deadtime to be as well. However the injector battery adj. Seems like it's something that still might need to be used as the deadtime alone doesn't account for the voltage variance(assuming they react differently to voltage variance than stock). I can see how adjusting one affects the other though. Unless maybe I'm misunderstanding something here.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I recall the ecmlink guys stating that they recommend FIC because their injectors are tested on a driver similar to a DSM, therefore, 'they play nice with ecmlink' or something to that effect.

 

[Chiefsublime]

Anyone able to look at the log I posted by chance? Anything look way off or like it would be causing the idle issue?

 

[99dsmer4g63]

FIC doesn't test their injectors with a DSM driver circuit. Those values are pretty much useless.

The deadtime number on the fuel tab is the EXACT same thing as the injbatteryadj in DA. For example, if you had 200 deadtime in the fuel tab, then changed it to zero and upped all the numbers in injbatteryadj by 200, nothing would change. They are one and the same. The fuel tab adjustment is a global adjustment while injbatteryadj is more precise breaking it down by voltage.

Thanks for a better explanation of what @chrisman287 was asking for. @steve as well for making sure we know why he has wiseman on his name .

I know I’m no tuning man and don’t claim to be. It’s probably one of the areas I’m weakest at along with the internals of our transmissions.

I did notice a huge difference though when I adjusted the settings to what FIC sent. FWIW I experienced pretty drastic voltage swings on my logs while the ECU had control of the alternator’s “low” and “high” voltage mode.

Disabling the the alternator to ground on and off was one of the best things I did to my cars idling and off throttle situations where voltage would swing low. Since it’s stays a consistent 14v +/- .02 and I personally don’t see an issue with that.

I agree getting the charging/voltage issues figured out should be priority one before trying to tune around bad voltage.

-Daniel

 

[Vegas Smith]

Here's the last log I took having to feather the throttle to keep it running. If anyone has any insight or if I forgot to mention anything your insights would be most appreciated. Thanks!

You have a lot that needs to be fixed. Get your wideband 12v setup with its own relay/fused power source from the battery. Period. Fix your TPS. Your vacuum is way too low at 5, vacuum leak? Fix the battery situation.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Base timing set at 5* BTDC?

 

[Stapl3]

Disabling the the alternator to ground on and off was one of the best things I did to my cars idling and off throttle situations where voltage would swing low. Since it’s stays and a consistent 14v +/- .02 and I personally don’t see an issue with that.

How?

 

[steve]

On a 2G Turbo the ECU can control the output of the alternator by grounding the G terminal to turn the field off just like the internal voltage regulator does. If the connection is open (not connected) the alternator should be running strictly off the regulator.

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[Chiefsublime]

Base timing set at 5* BTDC?

Don't you have to be running/idling to set timing? Or is there some other way that I just don't know about?

 

[99dsmer4g63]

How?

I simply disconnected the the g terminal if I recall correctly. Without the ability to ground and unground the generator g terminal I believe it is the ECU cannot use the low voltage mode.

At this point the alternator just runs at its “high” voltage mode and relays off the regulator of the alternator. Some say they see sporadic voltage when doing his but I’ve never had any complaints. I see a slight spike on a cold start that’s about it though.

I’m sure Steve can explain what I did a lot better than I can .


-Daniel

 

[Chiefsublime]

YYYEEEAAASSSSSS!!!! I finally got the summbitch to run/idle on her own!!!

So I did some more digging/watching/reading etc. Then I realized, well a few things actually. First was that it is a used ECU/DSMLink set up. That the values that I started with were likely not stock or even a good starting off point (except of course whatever I changed on the initial set up). So I went through and essentially reverted anything I could back to factory/stock settings/values.

From there I set the global/deadtime. After I felt I had finished those setting I was still under the fuel tab and looked at something I hadn't adjusted and wasn't sure where they were to start (the short pulsewidth adjustment). So I searched short pulsewidth adjustment and didn't find a ton of info on it. I also don't really remember hearing much about it. The one thing That stuck out to me was that it affects the fuel, though mostly only at idle. So I figured what the hell this could be something. The setting at the time was 8-900. So I decided to play around with it and see what values were available. turns out it only goes down to about 800 or so, but goes all the way up to 5,000. So once I figured that out, I set link to save current changes to ECU and started moving it up. Low and behold it was way off! That was what was causing my AFR to be so far off and look like it was malfunctioning.

My current setting is around 2,900-3,000. It is finally idling on its own and is WAY better! Even though it's just my baseline to get the car to idle it feels like a big accomplishment! I guess aside from setup it's really my first victory since wiring it up. I was finally able to set base timing to *5 BTDC as well as idle speed.

Next up is figure out that charging issue and rewire WB sensor, but damn it feel good to (be a gansta ; )) get that out of the way!!

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Awesome!! Sometimes depending on the circumstances any progress is all you need and I like victories no matter how small.

Now to get your voltage issues figured out.

-Daniel

 

[Chiefsublime]

Awesome!! Sometimes depending on the circumstances any progress is all you need and I like victories no matter how small.

Now to get your voltage issues figured out.

-Daniel

Totally!!
So I figured out the charging issue and what in the DSM heck. Lol. It was just the alternator, but.....Well you'll see why I say that after seeing the pictures of the good and then the bad alternators (hint.. Never judge a book by it's cover). The FIRST two pictures are of the working alternator. SMH.

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[99dsmer4g63]

Make sure your power steering and water pipe o ring to water pump are sealed up good.

Seems power steering leaks/fluid loss and coolant dripping on these alternators kills them quickly. They also live right beside the downpipe.
These things do have a hard life compared to most alternators locations.

-Daniel

 

[Chiefsublime]

For sure P/S pump isn't leaking. So that's good gonna install/make a heat shield for the new alt. Glad I sprung for the lifetime warranty one. Anyway I got the charging issue sorted and the LC2 rewired with relay pulling power directly from battery. I have been reading along the article how to tune 1g on sd no maf. i got to the point where my combined fueltrim is close to 0 as possible,but I'm experiencing asurging idle.I'll post a log if anyone can look at it or has any ideas. Thanks

 

[99dsmer4g63]

From my experience most times idles aren’t tuned. You either have a vacuum leak, misadjusted biss screw, a bad isc or possibly too much timing in that area.

-Daniel

 

[Chiefsublime]

So I got a new alternator and installed it. it fixed my voltage issue, but now I'm getting 3 dash lights that light dim sometimes and more pronounced at other times. It's the brake light, the battery light and the coolant light. Last time this happened it was due to a failing voltage regulator!!!! C'mon now. It's a brand new alt. or supposed to be anyway. It didn't even have any drive time on it. just idling in the garage. The last one that went bad was basically new as well. Well at least it's got a lifetime warranty and if I pull the PS pump isn't that hard to replace. I wonder how many it will take before AZ get's tired of giving me new ones and upgrades me to a better one. I'll just keep it in til it no longer supplies the correct voltage I guess. Although I don't think they even tested the other one I brought in. so maybe I won't wait that long. Oh the life of a DSM'er