1992 Talon TSI 6/4 AUTO

[1cleangsx]

I’d say the benefits are totally worth it, compared to the expensive alternative of running race gas, or nitromethane . Couple things tho on my car, when I started after those 2 years, the fuel in the tank had the Lucas stabilizer, my fuel lines, filter and injectors were brand new, in the past I’ve had injector o rings dry out, but not on my current set up yet, I also replaced my fuel filter element after 600 miles for precaution but it looked fine. Also this winter I’ll send in my 2150’s to be cleaned as well. I’d say with e85 you simply want to take a little more precaution but it’s absolutely worth it

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Thanks for the response Jeremy. I do have FICs with the SS valves luckily. I also have an injector cleaner/tester. I picked up a fuel lab SS fuel filter for the bay too.

My real concern is inside the tank. I have a new walbro 450 that they claim is the e85 safe one. It is actually a TI automotive but from my understanding they bought walbro out I believe However it has your standard paper element looking pump filter/sock.

Link below for my pump I purchased.

Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump High Pressure TIA485-2 F90000267 (Universal E85 Ethanol) TI Automotive

Walbro 450LPH - TI Automotive TIA485-2 Fuel PumpWalbro Part Number: F90000267 / 400-1168 Full Install KitType: Universal E85 Intank Fuel PumpFuel: FLEX (E85 Ethanol Safe)Horsepower: 750HP+Flow Rate: 450LPH Operating Pressure: 35-87 PSI Outlet diameter: 10mm (3/8") Diameter (upper body) 39mm...

walbrofuelpumps.com

Side note last time I mentioned a walbro pump on here a member on here seemed to poke fun at me I believe. Is there something I’m missing and I’m looking like a fool without knowing?

Sorry to take up your build thread Marty but seems a good place to put some info about trying to avoid what you have going on currently.

-Daniel

 

[Vegas Smith]

Walbro is the gold stand for a pumps on our cars. Sure, there may be better pumps out the but not for the cost/performance of the Walbros. As far as e85 goes, just put fuel stabilizer in if you're going to let it sit or run some pump gas through there. If you want to take a step further then just take the injectors in to get them cleaned or clean them yourself with a cheap amazon cleaner tool.

 

[We're on Boost]

I’m trying to receive all the benefits of ethanol without any of my worst feared con. The ethanol jelling up after sitting. I’ve tried to do it as “correctly” as I can though with all ptfe and stainless components or e85 “safe”.

Yeah, some precautions like people have mentioned should help.
My main precaution is having flex fuel capability and using it to let my E% go up in the summer and down for the winter. That also means I change my boost control duty cycle summer and winter (higher summer, lower winter). My car with the engine that was built in 2016 has never had E% higher than 60%. Even the final dyno tune was on only E60, after the base tune on 92 octane E10.

My car is a 9:1 compression engine build which we did to make things safer when I'm on a lower E%. I'm glad we did that. It's safer all-around really. The base tune on 92 octane E10 gave 500 awhp. The "all-in" final tune on E60 was 650 awhp. So that gives a fair idea I think of the potential "safe" power difference between the 2 fuels, given a good engine build and a good tuner.

I haven't had any ethanol problems yet except I noticed the sock on my in-tank Walbro gradually grows this nasty looking black stuff over a period of 4 or 5 years (in my case). I figure that's just a matter of replacing the sock every few years preemptively before it causes a problem.

 

[We're on Boost]

Link below for my pump I purchased.

Walbro pumps are really good!
Something to keep in mind about the F90000267 - According to Walbro's own charts, the flowrate starts to drop rapidly when you get above 80 psi of pressure. At 80 psi it flows more than my system. At 90 psi it flows less than my system.
So don't go wild high with your base fuel pressure. I'd say don't go above 45 psi for your base pressure. Know what I mean? Pressure on the pump outlet is:
Base pressure + Boost pressure + pressure losses in the lines.
You can figure about 5 psi pressure loss in the lines and filter. More if you have small lines.
If you have in mind doing about 35 psi of boost for example, and lets say 43 psi base, you've got:
43 + 35 + 5 = 83 psi fuel pressure at the pump outlet.
Flowrate is about 314 liters per hour at that pressure, according to Walbro's chart. That's if your pump is getting 13.5 volts.
You can do a lot of power with that, so it should be good. But I'd say 314 liters per hour is about the most you could expect in our usage (high boost) with the F90000267.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

@We're on Boost I don’t intend on running over the 42-43 base pressure. I have -6 feed and return and I’ll be around 25-30 lbs to get my goal for now.

My end goal for now is a conservative 450 wheel until I build my bottom end at that time. Then I’ll probably stray away from the dsm turbo hot parts. Once I get connecting rods I’d like 500-550…….for now . I think I’m already slightly playing with fire at 430 wheel on stock 7 bolt rods.

Thanks for everyone’s advice/experience. At this point I’d like to stop hogging up Marty’s build though.

Sorry Marty

-Daniel

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I wouldn't go back to gas. I LOVE the way the car runs on Ethanol and have thought about trying Methanol even. The cars are complete different monsters on Ethanol.
I'll pull my pump (5 minutes) and look at the pickup and take a picture or 2 when I do.
I think the difference in my builds are the fact that each car is built for a specific purpose or I'd just own one. I own three, .
One daily
One WW auto that can double as a daily
One Racecar in Streetcar clothes

Owning three keeps me busy and low on $.

 

[1cleangsx]

If your DSM ain’t broke YOU are

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

If your DSM ain’t broke YOU are

Preaching to the Choir Jeremy!!!
My car habit keeps pushing my RETIREMENT back......

 

[1cleangsx]

Don’t quit Marty! God I wish we lived closer..

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well you haven't heard much about the 6/4 auto car lately, as I have been busy on other projects, but this weekend I wanted to drive her one last time before draining her E out so I took her down the road a 1/4 mile and back and she was dropping fuel pressure like she had before. I just had the pump out a few weeks ago and cleaned its sock (I have since ordered a HANDFUL of them so I can just pop a new one on if need be) so I figured I had some jel or junk in the FuelLab fuel filter. I took the filter off and opened it up to inspect the 10 micron filter I run on E and to my surprise, I found a twisted up POS filter inside the can. I guess my fuel pump is such a monster that it created a swirl effect and the filter would have none of it. Just kidding. All jokes aside, I have never seen this happen before, but I have encountered many of those things in the past, just never this. It plugged the filter so much that I had a super hard time blowing through it. I put a new filter (I stock one at all times) and drove her back down the road and she held pressure and was trying to boost but the tune is wacky for some reason. I was trying to watch the fuel pressure gauge and the AFR gauge at the same time but they are on different locations in the car, so its hard to do. I didn't even log, which I normally always do. I glanced at the LC-2 one time as she was wanting to go into boost and saw 13.2........too lean so I just went ahead and pickled her with some gasoline for the winter.
Why is it I always end up having the WIERDEST issues???? I have no idea why, but pictures are here because everyone wants to see it or it didn't happen.
A Merry Christmas to you all. I will keep trudging ahead, trying to make "progress" Maybe next year I can get the transmission main shaft fixed. I do like driving the car, she is a fun street machine, when she can keep up her fuel pressure!
Marty

 

[Car Cannibal]

WTH, call Fuelab, curious.
My Magnafuel SS filter has been rock solid for years on E50 and just needs swapping out every 10k miles.

 

[Dericsh]

Thanks for the updates Marty, Merry Christmas to you as well!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

WTH, call Fuelab, curious.
My Magnafuel SS filter has been rock solid for years on E50 and just needs swapping out every 10k miles.

I think it's a filter manufacturer issue. It's an Aeromotive. It's not a knock off that I can tell either.
I am still really puzzled. Was the engine sucking in so hard that it sucked it up? Just having outside the box thoughts. This is on a T I Automotive 285 Hellcat pump with 8AN feed, 6AN return.

 

[1cleangsx]

I think you should just give the car to me Marty

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I think so Jeremy. Ho Ho Ho!!!
She is making improvements though!

 

[We're on Boost]

I think it's a filter manufacturer issue. It's an Aeromotive. It's not a knock off that I can tell either.
I am still really puzzled. Was the engine sucking in so hard that it sucked it up? Just having outside the box thoughts.

Well hopefully it will turn out to be something simple like don't try to use an Aeromotive filter element inside a Fuelab filter body. There might just be some basic incompatibility there. Thanks for the pics!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

From just my limited research, they are all "similar" as long as they are not too long and touch the back end of the housing but I can be the test "dummy" since I put another Aeromotive filter element in. I'll be checking that thing you can bet!

 

[We're on Boost]

From just my limited research, they are all "similar" as long as they are not too long and touch the back end of the housing but I can be the test "dummy" since I put another Aeromotive filter element in. I'll be checking that thing you can bet!

I noticed that Fuelab calls their filter a 5" filter, and Aeromotive calls theirs a 5.5" filter.
I don't see any actual dimensioned drawing for the filter elements, but isn't that what the 5 and 5.5 inches are? The element length?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I am sure they are. The can doesn't touch with either filter, which is what I thought may have happened. I opened up that bent one ( I had it in the back in the old package) and I was able to freely blow through it. Now I could BARELY get any air through it when I first took it out..............IDT the twist had anything to do with the lack of fuel pressure now.

 

[We're on Boost]

I am sure they are.

?
There's a lot I don't know about my own Fuelab filter because I've never taken it apart.
Mainly - is it designed for the flow to go through the element from inside to outside? Or from outside to inside?
My old Moroso fuel filter that used to be on the car is clearly designed for flow to go from inside to outside and they show it right in the instructions in a proper drawing. I don't see a drawing like that for the Fuelab and I maybe haven't looked hard enough for the Aeromotive.
Your mangled element looks kinda squashed, as if it was flowing in the opposite direction designed.
So there's that flow direction that I'm suspicious about.
Then there's the length difference. If they are really a half inch different in length, that seems way wrong.
Then there may be a diameter thing - how much clearance is there supposed to be between the outside of the element and the inside of the housing.
Anyway, I never thought these fuel filters were designed to any common generic standard. I would assume they should only be used with the elements designed specifically for the same brand and model.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

It flows from outside to the inside of the filter then to the injectors. We will all see. I will remove it after a month or so and see what it looks like. We all will know then! I even ordered an Evil Energy element to see how it works too.

 

[We're on Boost]

Thought you would enjoy seeing this pic. This is from a Fuelab article in Dragzine August 16, 2022.
Two years? Sheesh I'd be mortified if my filter looked like this after 2 years. Well for me that's probably about 500 miles.
That conical spring they show with the elements, I imagine you are using that because it comes with the Fuelab housing.
I haven't figured out yet if the Aeromotive filters are designed to use a spring like that. I imagine they are but I would wonder if their spring is the same stiffness and length, etc.
The Evil Energy does use a spring like that. BTW Evil Energy did a great job with pictures and a video on their Amazon site that shows flow direction (either way but preferred from inside - out) and basic construction.
Aeromotive and Fuelab both flow from outside - in.
Here's the Fuelab stuff from Dragzine:

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

That would look JUST like mine. I am sure mine was clogged with "something", I liked to turn blue trying to blow thru it. I cleaned it and twisted the dam thing back a bit, and let it sit then out of the blue I checked it again and could freely blow through it. It is a reason I have some 30 micron pump socks to try. All of this is not on the top of my "to do" list but I have the stuff and changing a sock now is like a 5-minute thing. One other thing, my FuelLab filter never had the spring, hence why I feed it (and it is marked "out") from the outside in, otherwise it would blow the filter off. My son uses the same exact pump and an Evil Energy filter (he relocated it last night) on his 86 Z28 and it too has no spring inside so he asked me which way it should flow then he saw it marked on the housing of that filter body too. Every time I have changed the element (used to be for gas, 100 micron), it has been firmly attached to the nipple inside. I bet I still have some crappy ethanol.....same station as it is the ONLY station. Good thing I switched back to gas for now so I can see if the same thing happens.
Interesting to say the least.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well I found a FuelLab filter at STM, and I took a screen shot of the ad. It says "universal fit" so that makes me think that "most" elements would fit in the FuelLab can, as long as they seal at the inside port. IDK, what do you all think? That twisted up element still has me scratching my head
Here is the ad: