1G 1992 1g Eagle Talon TSi AWD no start

[Breadvans]

Little background, traded my last car for a 1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD. Guy told me it doesn’t have spark anymore, I said whatever and traded.

So turns out every valve was bent. Bought a 2g head. Timing belt was pretty messed up so bought a new one. Redid the timing belt. Crank no start unless I had the gas pedal floored, then it would start sometimes.

Sent my ECU in to get ECMLink to better diagnose the no start. Got the ECU back and same as before crank but no start but will sometimes start with gas pedal but now I don’t have to floor it. Just baby it. Everything i can tell checks out on ECMLink.

Also installed 1800cc injectors. Car has a 16g turbo. Timing checked out. Compression kinda checks out. Reads about 125-130 but haven’t been able to get car to proper operating temperature and do it again. Car has spark and fuel. Car will also idle at 2000 rpms when it is started and I’ve adjusted the BISS screw and tried getting the CAS in the right place. But it’ll slowly go done to 1500 but below that it just dies.

Please help, really missing some adrenaline

 

[steve]

The current log has DTC's for IAT (stuck at -74F), Baro (Not Captured), and Injectors.
You have your Injector Global at -75% but no deadtime adjustment.
Your IPS isn't reporting that the throttle is closed.
The battery voltage at rest is 12.2v and drops to 10v when you first start cranking and only returns to 11.9 at the end rather than 12.6 for a fully charged battery.

Time to fix those DTC's and work down the no start checklist

 

[Breadvans]

The current log has DTC's for IAT (stuck at -74F), Baro (Not Captured), and Injectors.
You have your Injector Global at -75% but no deadtime adjustment.
Your IPS isn't reporting that the throttle is closed.
The battery voltage at rest is 12.2v and drops to 10v when you first start cranking and only returns to 11.9 at the end rather than 12.6 for a fully charged battery.

Time to fix those DTC's and work down the no start checklist

Yeah I’m trying to figure out a new maf cuz someone did the hacked maf and the filter doesn’t seat and blah blah blah, so right now i don’t have my maf even plugged in. I didn’t see any dtcs for my injectors tho? And yeah I’ve been trying to jump it instead since the log but still
Not better.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I see the same that Steve does. If it were MY car, I would play with the global and try to get her to fuel up and run, even if it is rich. Just for kicks and giggles, change the global to -70 or -65 and see if the car reacts any different. This is just a "test".

 

[Breadvans]

I see the same that Steve does. If it were MY car, I would play with the global and try to get her to fuel up and run, even if it is rich. Just for kicks and giggles, change the global to -70 or -65 and see if the car reacts any different. This is just a "test".

Alright I’ll try it, i don’t have a wideband or anything but It seems like to me that it’s too rich and I’m just flooding it. I ordered a pair of stock injectors just to try, but what happened to me yesterday is it’ll almost start but won’t and then after trying it just doesn’t wanna do anything except crank. I went back after a couple hours and it almost started again but after a few tries didn’t stumble at all

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well you can only go to -80% on the global to LEAN it out and see how she reacts.
Have you ever pulled a plug after it almost started and looked to see if it is wet? If you pull one, take a picture for us to see.

 

[Breadvans]

Well you can only go to -80% on the global to LEAN it out and see how she reacts.
Have you ever pulled a plug after it almost started and looked to see if it is wet? If you pull one, take a picture for us to see.

I haven’t since my injectors started working, I’ll try it tonight when i play with my settings. Yeah I’m just thinking that my injectors are still way too big even at -80%

 

[steve]

I wouldn't be surprised if the plugs are now fuel fouled.
I'm struggling with why the injector pulse width is non-zero before and after cranking and the cranking IPW seems really long (3.XXms) for 1800cc injectors but it's awhile since I've looked a working car's logs, I only seem to see ones for misbehaving vehicles lately.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I viewed the log and saw the ms the injectors were at and thought it was weird but I'm not an expert, rather an experimental guy.
Thanks for pointing that out Steve.

 

[Breadvans]

I wouldn't be surprised if the plugs are now fuel fouled.
I'm struggling with why the injector pulse width is non-zero before and after cranking and the cranking IPW seems really long (3.XXms) for 1800cc injectors but it's awhile since I've looked a working car's logs, I only seem to see ones for misbehaving vehicles lately.

Okay I’ll also try new plugs when my injectors get here

 

[Breadvans]

Also want to add I believe the cause of my injectors not pulsing was the ECT sensor. It was reading high and I looked in link and there was preset settings that cut fuel at certain temperatures.

This is probably going to be my last thread on this car.

I’ve tried just about everything. I bought another DSM and think I’m going to go more in that direction. I have fuel, compression, spark, my mechanical timing is on, and my CAS is orientated correctly.

I’ve got a new fuel pump, stock injectors now, put in a known working MAF. I believe fuel is my problem, but not sure anymore. My injectors are pulsing but i believe my gas is old. Starting fluid doesn’t make it start however. Just looking for any last chance efforts

Gas has been sitting in for 11 months. I’ll answer anything or try almost anything

 

[waltah]

11 month old gas will start the car. And in any case failure to start with starting fluid eliminates gas as the issue. I just today started a car that had sat a year that I know of and no idea how long before that. Once it ran the first time with SF it started repeatedly with the old gas.

Winter might be another story if the gas is several years old. But on a warm day you could almost start it with diesel. No, don't try that!

More seriously maybe you could point us to a previous thread where you described all the various testing you've done? There are cars that don't make personal or financial sense to keep trying to get going but there are no cars for which the problem cannot be found.

It sounds like a subtle cam angle sensor problem, maybe one of those that's caused by mixing parts between different year models -- maybe you've got spark and all the rest but the spark happens at the wrong time. I think you can check that with a timing light pointed at the cam gears. Take off the upper timing cover, paint the timing marks on both gears, hook the light to #1, and crank it

Edit: Many cam gears have two marks 180 apart so they can be used on either shaft. Turn the crankshaft until the dowels on both cams are up and paint the marks that are pointing at each other.

Got burned on that one myself not long ago.

Almost all our cars have now had multiple owners, some of whom did things that 'made sense at the time' ... figuring it out is not always fun.

But let's read the rest of the story.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Is this a crank no start?
Did you spray starter fluid directly into the intake manifold?
When you turn the key on, does the check engine light come on & turn off, stock boost gauge move up and down?
Spark plug wires are correctly routed?
Injector wires are on correct cylinder?
Has the car ever started?
Have you tried adjusting the cas?

Waltah is correct. That gas shouldn’t be a problem.

 

[Breadvans]

11 month old gas will start the car. And in any case failure to start with starting fluid eliminates gas as the issue. I just today started a car that had sat a year that I know of and no idea how long before that. Once it ran the first time with SF it started repeatedly with the old gas.

Winter might be another story if the gas is several years old. But on a warm day you could almost start it with diesel. No, don't try that!

More seriously maybe you could point us to a previous thread where you described all the various testing you've done? There are cars that don't make personal or financial sense to keep trying to get going but there are no cars for which the problem cannot be found.

It sounds like a subtle cam angle sensor problem, maybe one of those that's caused by mixing parts between different year models -- maybe you've got spark and all the rest but the spark happens at the wrong time. I think you can check that with a timing light pointed at the cam gears. Take off the upper timing cover, paint the timing marks on both gears, hook the light to #1, and crank it

Edit: Many cam gears have two marks 180 apart so they can be used on either shaft. Turn the crankshaft until the dowels on both cams are up and paint the marks that are pointing at each other.

Got burned on that one myself not long ago.

Almost all our cars have now had multiple owners, some of whom did things that 'made sense at the time' ... figuring it out is not always fun.

But let's read the rest of the story.

I’ll try that timing check. I got a few threads on it, it’s really only started once before

Is this a crank no start?

Yes cranking no start. I sprayed it through the throttle body with the plate open.

CEL comes on for 5 seconds and turns off. Boost gauge zeros out. ECU was sent into ECMTuning and they said it all checks out about a month ago. Spark wires are 4123. Yes injectors wires are good. Car started after installing installing the correct intake. Previously had 1g intake on 2g head. Started right up and slowly died.

Went out the next day to dial in my idle and never started again. Have done a ton of work to it since then such as a new engine. I have tried adjusting the CAS to no avail.

But let's read the rest of the story.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1g-dsm-no-start.534343/

(* Now merged together because so much has gone on and no point to asking the same things *)

This is the tread with probably the most info. I have another about my injectors but i got that figured out

 

[Dericsh]

Is the ect reading normally with KOEO?

 

[AWD-Tony]

Post a log. Maybe it’s something in your settings.

 

[Breadvans]

Is the ect reading normally with KOEO?

Not sure what the second part stands for but ECT is operational and reading correctly
(* Key On Engine Off *)

Post a log. Maybe it’s something in your settings.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/log-2022-04-30-03-elg.660298/

My computers dead but this was the last log i had. I haven’t done anything since except install a working MAF

 

[AWD-Tony]

Not sure what Global scalar does but that should be 0

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You have 3 dtc's. Have you looked into these? What MAF is on it now?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Uncheck "disable airflow smoothing w sd operation"

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

If you have battery latency for your injectors, input them here.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Are your injectors high impedance? Is the injector resistor pack deleted/modified? Are the spark plugs wet after trying to start?

Idle switch isn't working. You can simulate idle switch using the tps (in rpm/tps tab)
TPS needs to be adjusted to .63v with plate closed and 5v when it's fully open.

 

[steve]

My computers dead but this was the last log i had. I haven’t done anything since except install a working MAF

You seem to have changed back to stock injectors and changed the MAF since then. How did you update DSMLink if your computer is dead?

At this point is there any reason you can't start with a full reset of DSMLink to eliminate any historical setting that don't apply anymore and move forward from there?

 

[Breadvans]

Not sure what Global scalar does but that should be 0

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You have 3 dtc's. Have you looked into these? What MAF is on it now?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Uncheck "disable airflow smoothing w sd operation"

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

If you have battery latency for your injectors, input them here.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Are your injectors high impedance? Is the injector resistor pack deleted/modified? Are the spark plugs wet after trying to start?

Idle switch isn't working. You can simulate idle switch using the tps (in rpm/tps tab)
TPS needs to be adjusted to .63v with plate closed and 5v when it's fully open.

Yeah i got rid of my dtcs with the new maf. I’ll try those first two things but I’m not familiar enough with battery latency for injectors. My injectors are low impedance. My resistor pack is unmodified and checks out with a multimeter. I think i tried the simulate tps, but I’ll double check when my computer is charged and I’m home.

You seem to have changed back to stock injectors and changed the MAF since then. How did you update DSMLink if your computer is dead?

At this point is there any reason you can't start with a full reset of DSMLink to eliminate any historical setting that don't apply anymore and move forward from there?

I did it before my computer died. After i changed that and it still didn’t start i left my computer inside my car and it died. I’ll do a full reset also

 

[AWD-Tony]

When I checked last night, the global fuel setting was for large injector, 1700cc’s iirc. If you put the stock injectors back in, you can leave the battery offset and just change global to zero. Can you post a pic of the injector resistor? So there’s no stores dtc’s now? You have a 2g maf?

 

[Breadvans]

When I checked last night, the global fuel setting was for large injector, 1700cc’s iirc. If you put the stock injectors back in, you can leave the battery offset and just change global to zero. Can you post a pic of the injector resistor? So there’s no stores dtc’s now? You have a 2g maf?

Okay i did that. There’s no stored docs right now, and i used the 1g maf from my 90.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Check your maf settings under maf comp. Thought you had 2g maf selected. Injector resistor is set up for low impedance so you’re good there. Try starting it once you confirmed maf type