1G 1992 1g Eagle Talon TSi AWD no start

[Breadvans]

Little background, traded my last car for a 1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD. Guy told me it doesn’t have spark anymore, I said whatever and traded.

So turns out every valve was bent. Bought a 2g head. Timing belt was pretty messed up so bought a new one. Redid the timing belt. Crank no start unless I had the gas pedal floored, then it would start sometimes.

Sent my ECU in to get ECMLink to better diagnose the no start. Got the ECU back and same as before crank but no start but will sometimes start with gas pedal but now I don’t have to floor it. Just baby it. Everything i can tell checks out on ECMLink.

Also installed 1800cc injectors. Car has a 16g turbo. Timing checked out. Compression kinda checks out. Reads about 125-130 but haven’t been able to get car to proper operating temperature and do it again. Car has spark and fuel. Car will also idle at 2000 rpms when it is started and I’ve adjusted the BISS screw and tried getting the CAS in the right place. But it’ll slowly go done to 1500 but below that it just dies.

Please help, really missing some adrenaline

 

[steve]

No check the wires against the MFI diagram. The wire colors are quite different between the two and you can damage things if you swap them.

 

[motomattx]

My first 1g (tsi) back around 2002 would eat ECUs. Same chip/transistor would fry everytime. This caused the injectors to stop firing. New ecu would fix the issue for a couple months and then same thing would happen. I never could find out what caused the issue. I searched forever. Paid others to search. No one could figure it out

wish I knew.

Good luck.

Eta: my old thread. It has some good suggestions. I never could figure it out and sold the car. I also had in a shop that specialized in automotive electrical work and they couldn’t figure out what caused it.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/talon-eats-4-ecus-in-1500-miles.48863/

Possibly a shorted isc motor, that will burn out an ecu.

 

[Breadvans]

No check the wires against the MFI diagram. The wire colors are quite different between the two and you can damage things if you swap them.

Okay I’ll do that when i get home.

On a separate note, is there a way to tell if the ecu is truly bad without throwing in another? All my signs point to it being good but i can’t be certain of it. No caps leaking or bad smell, but the car sat and before it sat the injectors were firing.

If it’s not my resistor i don’t really have anything else other than a short in the wiring, because i have spark so it shouldn’t be the cas

Like is there anything i can test with a multimeter is what I’m trying to ask ig


Home now. Wires are correct.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yes it is possible on the 92 , the isc has 6 wires 2 red and a yellow, black and blue.

 

[Breadvans]

Yes it is possible on the 92 , the isc has 6 wires 2 red and a yellow, black and blue.

Yeah i double checked, they’re all good

 

[Breadvans]

Swapped in a known good cas to just rule it out and still no pulse

Think I’m going to send the ecu into ecmtuning. I’ve checked everything else and everything else has came back okay

 

[Breadvans]

So update. To make it even more confusing, i sent my ecu into link, and they’re saying it’s completely fine. It’s having no trouble pulsing their injectors. So that crosses off the last thing i had.

 

[pauleyman]

what happened before all this? Has the car ever run in your posession? What changed?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

CTS good?

 

[Breadvans]

what happened before all this? Has the car ever run in your posession? What changed?

No the car hasn’t really run in my possession. I got it to fire up a couple times last year but when it fired up i still had a few things to do and the next day it wouldn’t run again

CTS good?

Not really. It reads super high like 200* but is there a fuel cut with that?

I know a faulty one reads in the negatives and floods it with fuel but i haven’t heard it the other way

Does anybody know of any fail safes that will just cut fuel to the injectors? I saw on someone else’s thread that the ignition system has a failsafe that will cut it but not sure that’s my problem

 

[steve]

There is something up with the sensor. Look how it jumps when you stop cranking.

Your RPM's seems real low and you should add battery voltage to the captured data.

Your IPS isn't working, either not connected or the TB isn't grounded.

That log said it was from May of 2021.
Do you have a current one that includes battery voltage.

I think at this point we should be looking for wiring errors.

 

[pauleyman]

Is your idle position switch working and properly grounded through the throttle body? ECU will want to know if the throttle is closed.

 

[Breadvans]

That log said it was from May of 2021.
Do you have a current one that includes battery voltage.

I think at this point we should be looking for wiring errors.

I figured it’s the wiring but more confused because the ecu is trying to pulse but when back probing the ecu i still don’t see a pulse. And that should’ve been the one from this year? I’ll submit again when i get home.

Is your idle position switch working and properly grounded through the throttle body? ECU will want to know if the throttle is closed.

I don’t have the proper grounding bracket, does that cut fuel?

 

[pauleyman]

I don’t have the proper grounding bracket, does that cut fuel?

ECU will cut fuel above 1500 rpm if the IPS is active. This is why an AF gauge reads zero when you are coasting down. It's also why idle surge happens. At idle you have fuel but IPS is closed. If idle somehow creeps above 1500 rpm ecu cuts fuel, rpm drops, fuel comes in and the whole process starts over. This isn't your problem now that I think about it but still needs to be addressed if it's not all present.

 

[Breadvans]

ECU will cut fuel above 1500 rpm if the IPS is active. This is why an AF gauge reads zero when you are coasting down. It's also why idle surge happens. At idle you have fuel but IPS is closed. If idle somehow creeps above 1500 rpm ecu cuts fuel, rpm drops, fuel comes in and the whole process starts over. This isn't your problem now that I think about it but still needs to be addressed if it's not all present.

Thank you thats perfect

 

[Breadvans]

ECU will cut fuel above 1500 rpm if the IPS is active. This is why an AF gauge reads zero when you are coasting down. It's also why idle surge happens. At idle you have fuel but IPS is closed. If idle somehow creeps above 1500 rpm ecu cuts fuel, rpm drops, fuel comes in and the whole process starts over. This isn't your problem now that I think about it but still needs to be addressed if it's not all present.

Do you know if a bad maf will cut fuel completely? My only guess now is really the ecu but idk for sure. Ecm said it’s fine but i just can’t wrap my brain around the ecu trying to fire the injectors and not getting a signal when back probing. I’m looking to see if i can find a cheap ecu just to see if my injectors will pulse with it, and if it still doesn’t imma try redoing the entire wires to the injectors

 

[pauleyman]

Where are you back probing and what tool are you using?

 

[Breadvans]

Where are you back probing and what tool are you using?

I used a multimeter and a test light to see if i get any pulse after the ecu to try and determine if there’s a short in the circuit after the ecu

Also i checked my computer and that is the most recent log. Not sure why the date is off, but my earlier logs didn’t have injon

 

[steve]

Most recent or not, we need a log with Battery Voltage captured. Barometric Sensor would also be useful since you think the MAF is bad. The old log airflow counts look normal but IAT doesn't so the BARO might decide the question.

At question here are why the car seems to be cranking so slow and why the ECT voltage is jumping around while you are cranking.

You need to fix the IPS and make sure that the ECT and IAT wiring is correct.

I find the 81* Air temps and a 173* Coolant temp suspect for a cold engine in Oregon in April.

 

[Breadvans]

Most recent or not, we need a log with Battery Voltage captured. Barometric Sensor would also be useful since you think the MAF is bad. The old log airflow counts look normal but IAT doesn't so the BARO might decide the question.

At question here are why the car seems to be cranking so slow and why the ECT voltage is jumping around while you are cranking.

You need to fix the IPS and make sure that the ECT and IAT wiring is correct.

I find the 81* Air temps and a 173* Coolant temp suspect for a cold engine in Oregon in April.

Okay I still don’t have an ecu i can use so imma have to wait til i get mine back from ecm. It wouldn’t display battery voltage but I’ll try playing around with it some more

 

[steve]

Didn't know the ECU wasn't back. In the mean time you can read up on how logging works (you want to add items to the capture list) and check out the wiring from the sensors to the ECU connector.

Also a good time to charge your battery so it's 100%.

 

[Breadvans]

Didn't know the ECU wasn't back. In the mean time you can read up on how logging works (you want to add items to the capture list) and check out the wiring from the sensors to the ECU connector.

Also a good time to charge your battery so it's 100%.

Okay i charged my battery and still no go. I haven’t got a new log yet, but i tested all the injectors for positive voltage and i had about 10v on all of them but that was before i charged the battery. I heard the ecu will float the ground side and multimeters are too slow to even see a change in voltage is that true? Or do i got a short in the wires?

 

[steve]

Without knowing what your battery voltage was when you measured those voltages it's meaningless. Depending on where you measured you could have a injector resistor or an injector resistor and injector coil between you and the battery and if you measuring while the ECU is trying to pulse the injector your going to see some averaged voltage between battery voltage and ground depending on the pulse duty cycle.

Your multimeter is likely too slow to show you the pulses.

Does this mean that your ECU is back from ECMTuning?

 

[Breadvans]

Without knowing what your battery voltage was when you measured those voltages it's meaningless. Depending on where you measured you could have a injector resistor or an injector resistor and injector coil between you and the battery and if you measuring while the ECU is trying to pulse the injector your going to see some averaged voltage between battery voltage and ground depending on the pulse duty cycle.

Your multimeter is likely too slow to show you the pulses.

Does this mean that your ECU is back from ECMTuning?

Yessir it is, I’ll get you that log tonight with battery voltage.

I charged it all yesterday and i got it maintaining right now. Also when i turn my CAS it sounds like i hear my injectors click but i can’t confirm because i don’t have my noid lights with me, not sure what it really adds but i got that info

It was stumbling like it wanted to start a lot during this log, just by the way

 

[Breadvans]

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This is me trying to start it. I got it jumped at the time just in case voltage was still an issue. So sounds like something fixed my injectors, but regardless is still doesn’t want to start with starting fuel