1G 1992 1g Eagle Talon TSi AWD no start

[Breadvans]

Little background, traded my last car for a 1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD. Guy told me it doesn’t have spark anymore, I said whatever and traded.

So turns out every valve was bent. Bought a 2g head. Timing belt was pretty messed up so bought a new one. Redid the timing belt. Crank no start unless I had the gas pedal floored, then it would start sometimes.

Sent my ECU in to get ECMLink to better diagnose the no start. Got the ECU back and same as before crank but no start but will sometimes start with gas pedal but now I don’t have to floor it. Just baby it. Everything i can tell checks out on ECMLink.

Also installed 1800cc injectors. Car has a 16g turbo. Timing checked out. Compression kinda checks out. Reads about 125-130 but haven’t been able to get car to proper operating temperature and do it again. Car has spark and fuel. Car will also idle at 2000 rpms when it is started and I’ve adjusted the BISS screw and tried getting the CAS in the right place. But it’ll slowly go done to 1500 but below that it just dies.

Please help, really missing some adrenaline

 

[Breadvans]

yeah I’ve been following that thread.

But separately i tested my injector resistor and it came with no resistance?
Did i most likely test it wrong or can that happen?

 

[motomattx]

Most likely its an ecu issue if you cant even command them on.

 

[Breadvans]

Most likely its an ecu issue if you cant even command them on.

That’s what i was thinking but I sent it in to ecmlink and got link and they tested it before and said it was good so i don’t feel as if it’s that. I mean it was almost a year ago but the car hasn’t been running or anything so i don’t have a baseline for it. But my boost gauge goes to 0 and stays there and my cel goes away after 5 seconds

 

[steve]

I didn't follow many of the earlier comments. Just what did you tell DSMLink to turn on?

Do you have a log file of you trying to start the car?

The wiring to the injector resistor pack has 5 wires. One is the common battery voltage from the MPI circuit (that the ECU activates) and the other 4 run to power the injectors. These resistors act as current limiting so the low impedance coils in the injectors don't burn out from the high current used to make them open quickly.

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I forget the actual value of each resistor, I want to say it's about 6 ohms. so you'll need your meter on something like a 10 ohm scale if you have to choose one. You would measure from the common pin 3 to each of the other wires.

The CAS is that tells the ECU when to fire both the plugs and the injectors. DSMLink will tell you if and for how long it's trying to fire the injectors but the client software only has the option to disable injectors not fire them individually.

 

[Breadvans]

I didn't follow many of the earlier comments. Just what did you tell DSMLink to turn on?

Do you have a log file of you trying to start the car?

The wiring to the injector resistor pack has 5 wires. One is the common battery voltage from the MPI circuit (that the ECU activates) and the other 4 run to power the injectors. These resistors act as current limiting so the low impedance coils in the injectors don't burn out from the high current used to make them open quickly.

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I forget the actual value of each resistor, I want to say it's about 6 ohms. so you'll need your meter on something like a 10 ohm scale if you have to choose one. You would measure from the common pin 3 to each of the other wires.

The CAS is that tells the ECU when to fire both the plugs and the injectors. DSMLink will tell you if and for how long it's trying to fire the injectors but the client software only has the option to disable injectors not fire them individually.

Oh okay. I thought that was used as a testing feature. And i thought the ground is what told each injector to activate? Cuz i used a test light with the key on and it’s a constant voltage to each clip. How do i see in dsm link when it’s telling the injectors to fire?

 

[steve]

Yes, the ECU grounds it's side to cause current to flow through the injector coils but the buttons in DSMLink turns off the injectors, not fire them or ground them. It's so if you have a misfire or miss you can disable cylinders and see which one doesn't make the engine run worse.

You look at Injector pulse width in the log and if it's greater than 0 the ECU is trying to pulse for that long.

 

[Breadvans]

Yes, the ECU grounds it's side to cause current to flow through the injector coils but the buttons in DSMLink turns off the injectors, not fire them or ground them. It's so if you have a misfire or miss you can disable cylinders and see which one doesn't make the engine run worse.

You look at Injector pulse width in the log and if it's greater than 0 the ECU is trying to pulse for that long.

Sorry i didn’t see you ever replied to this one, but I looked through link and don’t see injector pulse width anywhere, so where is that located?

 

[steve]

ECMTuning calls it InjOn

dsmlinkloggableparams [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

v2viewingvalues [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

 

[Breadvans]

ECMTuning calls it InjOn

dsmlinkloggableparams [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

v2viewingvalues [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

Sweet I’ll look at it when i get back home

 

[Breadvans]

ECMTuning calls it InjOn

dsmlinkloggableparams [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

v2viewingvalues [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

So i looked and my ecu isn’t trying to open my injectors. So it’s either ecu, transistor, cas, or mpi? My mpg checks out, my transistor is in spec, and i assume it can’t be the cas because I’m getting spark.

But my ecu also looked fine and was sent into ECMTuning a year ago?

 

[steve]

So i looked and my ecu isn’t trying to open my injectors. So it’s either ecu, transistor, cas, or mpi? My mpg checks out, my transistor is in spec, and i assume it can’t be the cas because I’m getting spark. But my ecu also looked fine and was sent into ecmlink a year ago?

If it won't run how can your MPG check out? I'm guessing you mean your MPI relay since your ECU powers up.

It would be helpful to see a DSMLink log with the starting values listed https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/list-of-values-to-log.444831/

It's coming up on second year now that you have been playing with this and lots of water over the dam.

 

[Breadvans]

If it won't run how can your MPG check out? I'm guessing you mean your MPI relay since your ECU powers up.

It would be helpful to see a DSMLink log with the starting values listed https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/list-of-values-to-log.444831/

It's coming up on second year now that you have been playing with this and lots of water over the dam.

Yeah it hurts . Yeah i meant mpi. And okay I’m at work so I’ll get a log when i get home

 

[SorionC57]

My first 1g (tsi) back around 2002 would eat ECUs. Same chip/transistor would fry everytime. This caused the injectors to stop firing. New ecu would fix the issue for a couple months and then same thing would happen. I never could find out what caused the issue. I searched forever. Paid others to search. No one could figure it out

wish I knew.

Good luck.

Eta: my old thread. It has some good suggestions. I never could figure it out and sold the car. I also had in a shop that specialized in automotive electrical work and they couldn’t figure out what caused it.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/talon-eats-4-ecus-in-1500-miles.48863/

 

[steve]

You never followed up back in 2003. I would bet a picture of your burned up ECUs would have identified the cause. There aren't that many things that do that. Anyway welcome back.

 

[SorionC57]

You never followed up back in 2003. I would bet a picture of your burned up ECUs would have identified the cause. There aren't that many things that do that. Anyway welcome back.

Prob still have one of the ecus laying around in the garage. I’m pretty sure I could point it out looking one of the boards.

I think a member here bought the car for the motor/tranny.

 

[Breadvans]

Prob still have one of the ecus laying around in the garage. I’m pretty sure I could point it out looking one of the boards.

I think a member here bought the car for the motor/tranny.

Sweet thanks man, also do you happen to remember if you’re cel lit up for 5 seconds and then turned off? Or the boost gauge zeroed out? And this one i really doubt you remember but if you had link did it show your injectors firing in there? Just trying to see if this could possibly be my problem

 

[pauleyman]

So i looked and my ecu isn’t trying to open my injectors. So it’s either ecu, transistor, cas, or mpi? My mpg checks out, my transistor is in spec, and i assume it can’t be the cas because I’m getting spark. But my ecu also looked fine and was sent into ecmlink a year ago?

What does "so I looked" mean? Looked where? We've been discussing logs for injectors. What exactly are we talking about here?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Welcome back.

 

[Breadvans]

What does "so I looked" mean? Looked where? We've been discussing logs for injectors. What exactly are we talking about here?

Looked on a capture. I’ll try and post a log of it in like 45 mins

If it won't run how can your MPG check out? I'm guessing you mean your MPI relay since your ECU powers up.

It would be helpful to see a DSMLink log with the starting values listed https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/list-of-values-to-log.444831/

It's coming up on second year now that you have been playing with this and lots of water over the dam.

it wouldnt let me display a lot of them but i added it to the captured values so hopefully it shows up right

Also just wanna say my coolant temp isn’t actually that high, it’s just been reading that high since i got a new sensor, it was reading different but injectors still weren’t firing

 

[steve]

There is something up with the sensor. Look how it jumps when you stop cranking.

Your RPM's seems real low and you should add battery voltage to the captured data.

Your IPS isn't working, either not connected or the TB isn't grounded.

If I recall correctly you have 1800cc injectors, are you running Gas or E85?

 

[Breadvans]

There is something up with the sensor. Look how it jumps when you stop cranking.

Your RPM's seems real low and you should add battery voltage to the captured data.

Your IPS isn't working, either not connected or the TB isn't grounded.

If I recall correctly you have 1800cc injectors, are you running Gas or E85?

I could try and put the old sensor back in? And yeah that was one of them ones it wouldn’t let me add to displayed values just captured. Looks like I’m missing the ground strap for the ips, didn’t even know that was a thing. I’m running gas but was planning to switch to e85 once it’s actually on its feet

 

[steve]

Are the injectors high or low impedance? Can you take a picture of your Injector Resistor pack or bypass.

 

[Breadvans]

Low impedance and one sec

Here it is

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Wait is it possible to swap the isc and resistor plugs in a 92? I know it’s possible on a 90 but idk 91-94

Also just wanna state before i did the motor swap these injectors were firing

 

[steve]

Wait is it possible to swap the isc and resistor plugs in a 92? I know it’s possible on a 90 but idk 91-94

That's what I was looking to see. I can't tell 100% but it looks like that's the right one. Hard to see through the throttle cable

 

[Breadvans]

That's what I was looking to see. I can't tell 100% but it looks like that's the right one. Hard to see through the throttle cable

I mean I’ll try swapping them. I believe it’s part of a different harness but trying ain’t gonna hurt