1300$ Head Rebuild budget

[awzer2]

Well, the stock head gasket blew on my 1990 near mint condition Gsx.
I have 1300 set aside for a head rebuild.
I wanted to buy arps, stage 3 "Bc" cams,skunk 2 gears a greddy belt, get it ported,milled and jet washed. would this be within my budget?
What would be some things you guys would buy?
What would you do in this case?
I have rebuilt heads before but, installed stock parts.
I'm new to internal modification.

I have heard that i should get a 2g head also.

 

[my98gsx]

Ide stay away from the BC cams, they are nothing but problems. If interested I have ALOT of spare head parts, some new, some lightly used. Right now im looking to sell a complete set of 3g reviesed lifters, Topline rockers ( both used for one season ) I also have a brand new set of SI brand valves. ( these are the black nitrite coated ones, im not sure if im spelling that correctly though ) - i also have a modified 2g head lying around if you want to do that swap ( its ported, with real crowler valves, and real crowler springs / retainers - but it needs valve stem seals... ) PM me if your interested.

 

[1990AWD]

If you want to run a 2g head, you should give it a good port as the 1g head does flow more but the 2g head has a better intake design.

 

[awzer2]

yeah definitely, i need some suggestions on parts that would fall into my budget.

 

[Talipse96]

Why are you posting in a newbie forum?

Cams, valve springs, and retainers. Depending on how much power you plan to run the stock valves should be fine. Just go into the vendors and see what you want for your goals and make a price lise.

If you blew your head gasket you are going to need a new one. So again, depending how much power you are going to run depends on if you are going to go MLS or composite.

Also budget in how much the machine work is going to be in your area.

 

[Tanro]

The 1g head doesnt flow any better. In fact a lot of the big name racers run the 2g head.

 

[awzer2]

Why are you posting in a newbie forum?

Cams, valve springs, and retainers. Depending on how much power you plan to run the stock valves should be fine. Just go into the vendors and see what you want for your goals and make a price lise.

If you blew your head gasket you are going to need a new one. So again, depending how much power you are going to run depends on if you are going to go MLS or composite.

Also budget in how much the machine work is going to be in your area.

I'm still pretty new with these motors to be honest i thought it would be appropriate in my case.

I told my self if i ever need replacing of any parts on this car i would be upgrading the part.

Anyways the milling labor dis assembly and reassembly of parts would be $97
i'm not sure what gasket would best suit my needs.
I wanted to climb near the 240's-290's . i mean is this even possible with my budget? in the oncoming weeks i'm sure to get more money from my job but right now this is what i have to spend.

what should i get? can someone cook me up a nice list?
i'm not sure what is compatible with what.
I read that stage 2 cams are direct bolt on with no mods needed and stage 3 and up need mods. i just need a good direction to move in and get started on.

 

[my98gsx]

ok for your power goals you can get away with a pretty mild build. IF your set on doing cams Ide go with stock valves, a nice set of aftermarket springs / retainers, good set of valve stem seals, 272 cams (NON-BC), new rockers, 3g revised lifters (topline brand is fine and itll save money), and make sure the head is decked/milled flat. If your doing the work ide also always do ARP studs, and replace it with an MLS gasket (mitsu or commetic people will argue between the two)

If your not going to do cams (which are NOT needed for goals of under 300hp) just check your valves and springs for any damage and you can get away with the stock components. A nice stock-like build will always consist of 3g lifters arp studs and a mls gasket though if u plan on being a little rough on it.
Hope that helps.

 

[BigBeans]

A full rebuild with port work is well out of this budget.

If you replace the valves, guides, springs, lifters, cams, gears, seals, HG, studs, etc you're looking at $2500+ with labor, and that's on the low side for fully prepped head.

If you reuse your rockers (have the machine shop inspect them for fatigue) and springs you might be able to get there with no port work and medium budget parts.

They are going to charge you decent money to port the head, and the rest of the machine work is $300+ before they touch the ports (valve job w/ new guides is about $200-$250 at most places + money for resurfacing and reassembly).

 

[Talipse96]

You should update your mods list. If you are sticking with the 14B I wouldn't go with 272 cams. Thats a lot of top end for a turbo that is going to run out of breath.

How much machine work have you done to the block already? The block and head need an RA-50 at least to use the MLS gasket. The composite gasket has been know to hold some pretty good power with ARP head studs. Its $40and a good alternative to the $100+MLS

Instead of somebody giving you a parts list of what you should build. You should do your research and find out what your style is. What your goal is. Then through research you'll find out what is and what isn't overkill for a build.

If you want to get started, start with the basics. Things that you know need to get done no matter what route you choose. Get the head machined. While that is getting taken care of find your gasket that you'll be useing. Read up on cam gears. Same thing goes for springs, retainers, rocker arms, lifters... The list goes on.

 

[Absit]

I saw 290, you want stock cams, period.
If you MUST have cams, you want 264s - no larger.
And you don't need cam gears. Follow my advice and go OEM for both and you just saved a majority of your budget for work that'll actually help you.

 

[awzer2]

You should update your mods list. If you are sticking with the 14B I wouldn't go with 272 cams. Thats a lot of top end for a turbo that is going to run out of breath.

How much machine work have you done to the block already? The block and head need an RA-50 at least to use the MLS gasket. The composite gasket has been know to hold some pretty good power with ARP head studs. Its $40and a good alternative to the $100+MLS

Instead of somebody giving you a parts list of what you should build. You should do your research and find out what your style is. What your goal is. Then through research you'll find out what is and what isn't overkill for a build.

If you want to get started, start with the basics. Things that you know need to get done no matter what route you choose. Get the head machined. While that is getting taken care of find your gasket that you'll be useing. Read up on cam gears. Same thing goes for springs, retainers, rocker arms, lifters... The list goes on.

well i have a big 16g and fuel pump and fmic from a previous build. i'm not too worried about that part.
what is "ra-50"? i was going to go with a factory metal head gasket and arps.
the porting over here is gonna be 70$ because i know the guy personally and replaced his radiator twice. im not too off i know that for sure.

But okay let's put it this way,if i installed stage 2 272 cams...do those NEED modification?
if so what would be needed.

all i want are some upgraded cams at this point then.
i can handle everything else such as the fuel pump,gmaf,bigger turbo etc.
would it be unwise to install cams without any modification?

I saw 290, you want stock cams, period.
If you MUST have cams, you want 264s - no larger.
And you don't need cam gears. Follow my advice and go OEM for both and you just saved a majority of your budget for work that'll actually help you.

okay but it wont hurt to go higher than 290 i thought i would look stupid saying " i want 320+ Hp" i mean bolt on's are one thing but like i said internals are a whole new ball game for me..
i mean screw it, yeah.. i do want to get higher hp ratings.
it won't hurt i want 272 cams.
and yeah i don't absolutely need gears.

 

[Talipse96]

I'm not to sure about the 1G's but I know with the 2G's you don't have to upgrade your valvetrain to accept 272 cams. At the same time every cam is different (lift and duration varies). You don't need cam gears, its just nice to adjust them for the most potential of the cam. You will notice a difference, just not as much as if you were to dial them in.

"I" love Welcome To Extreme PSI, so that is where I'm going to get these prices for you.
Your machine work:------------------------------------------------$70.00
FFWD Connection Camshafts DKS2: (272/272)------------------$390.00
ARP Main Studs:--------------------------------------------------- $63.95
Topline Revised Lifters: (3G) --------------------------------------$109.95
Manley Performance Dual Valve Springs:-------------------------$204.00
Manley Performance Mitsubishi Titanium Retainers:--------------$176.00
Your total for all this stuff so far is---------------------------------$1,013.90

All these parts are just some of the cheaper good parts. You can go into the classifieds section and find a performance part out. Or wait for the vendors to have deals. When you have time to wait you can save yourself some money. Just set a goal and try and stick with it.
I know I left some parts off the list like your head gasket and valve guides.
Just make a list. I can't tell you how many pieces of paper I have used changing my parts list, adding to it, changing what manufacturer I want or price deals I found and where.

Roughness Average (RA)
http://www.aa1car.com/library/ar996.htm

I hope all those prices line up like I want them too.

 

[Absit]

That's just it though, if you're going for 300HP 272s WILL hurt by killing your low end.

 

[awzer2]

I'm not to sure about the 1G's but I know with the 2G's you don't have to upgrade your valvetrain to accept 272 cams. At the same time every cam is different (lift and duration varies). You don't need cam gears, its just nice to adjust them for the most potential of the cam. You will notice a difference, just not as much as if you were to dial them in.

"I" love Welcome To Extreme PSI, so that is where I'm going to get these prices for you.
Your machine work:------------------------------------------------$70.00
FFWD Connection Camshafts DKS2: (272/272)------------------$390.00
ARP Main Studs:--------------------------------------------------- $63.95
Topline Revised Lifters: (3G) --------------------------------------$109.95
Manley Performance Dual Valve Springs:-------------------------$204.00
Manley Performance Mitsubishi Titanium Retainers:--------------$176.00
Your total for all this stuff so far is---------------------------------$1,013.90

All these parts are just some of the cheaper good parts. You can go into the classifieds section and find a performance part out. Or wait for the vendors to have deals. When you have time to wait you can save yourself some money. Just set a goal and try and stick with it.
I know I left some parts off the list like your head gasket and valve guides.
Just make a list. I can't tell you how many pieces of paper I have used changing my parts list, adding to it, changing what manufacturer I want or price deals I found and where.

Roughness Average (RA)
Cylinder Head Resurfacing

I hope all those prices line up like I want them too.

thank you ,++++ it's kind of weird though ...i fired up my gsx and there is absolutely no white smoke coming out the exhaust,there is not any coolant in the oil and the car runs fine but dies at idle and is hard to start im kind of stumped right now,im trying A COMPRESSION TEST tomorrow. hopefully nothin' too crazy happened...the thing is i drove the car on the freeway and i ran into the express way down here then hit the red traffic lights and while i was waiting for the lights to turn green..bam it started rising like crazy i was in "holy shit" mode.
and drove about half a mile on RED to pull off into the shoulder.
after that the car wouldn't run and cost me 140$ to tow it 22 miles.
HOWEVER , when it died oil poured all over the tranny the side of the block and a little from under the headgasket area.. IS GOING ON HERE?

That's just it though, if you're going for 300HP 272s WILL hurt by killing your low end.

so when should i put the cams in? what else should be done to have these thigns be effective?

 

[DSMTyson]

IS GOING ON HERE?


so when should i put the cams in? what else should be done to have these thigns be effective?

Yikes. Just make sure you get the head milled. It sounds like you warped it pretty good.

Put the cams in when your head is rebuilt.

 

[awzer2]

Yikes. Just make sure you get the head milled. It sounds like you warped it pretty good.

Put the cams in when your head is rebuilt.

ouch,i hope i didnt warp it too bad..does that sound like it warped?
i know this is just a theory but does that sound plausible?
but nawww i meant like,when would it be effective to get some cams installed ? cause everyones saying 272's will kill my bottom end why do people install them then? my goal is to have [ if this is realistic ] 350+ hp i want to be able to pass up supercharged v8's and what not.

 

[dsmusmc]

DKS is nothing more then the Delta "HKS" grinds with the middle man mark up. Even the HKS grinds on new billet cores from Delta are slightly cheaper. You could always look for a set of EVO springs and retainers if your on a budget.

 

[1990AWD]

ouch,i hope i didnt warp it too bad..does that sound like it warped?
i know this is just a theory but does that sound plausible?
but nawww i meant like,when would it be effective to get some cams installed ? cause everyones saying 272's will kill my bottom end why do people install them then? my goal is to have [ if this is realistic ] 350+ hp i want to be able to pass up supercharged v8's and what not.

They use 272s because they have a larger turbo, therefore more air to move and so on. Cams have to work with the turbo and engine for a smooth powerband (also depending on where you want the power). 264s are good DD cams for something like a 14b, 272s are good for 20g size, 280s for large holsets, etc. etc.

 

[2slow4now]

Just spend your money on the head and don't worry about the cams yet. Its a fairly easy job to upgrade the cams later when you decide you want more HP.
Look up some of the vendors that sell heads already built. $1300 can give you a decently built head and just keep in mind its from a shop that knows our engines. Most shops around me are the chevy/ford V8 "whats this for?" "UUHH I don't think I have the tools to do that" shops or they are thinking oh its just a little 4banger rice burner I'll just slop it together because it doesn't make any power......a lawnmower engine.

 

[Talipse96]

DKS is nothing more then the Delta "HKS" grinds with the middle man mark up. Even the HKS grinds on new billet cores from Delta are slightly cheaper. You could always look for a set of EVO springs and retainers if your on a budget.

Don't over look this. These are really cheap when you can find them. I was lookin for a long time, I eventually gave up.

Like I said earlier, if you have the time to wait you will save some money.

As for the head. When you take it to your buddy let him know that you think that it is warped. Just have him double check to make sure that it is good.

When you do decide to replace your head gasket, there are many different thicknesses to be aware of. Do some research so that you get the right thickness. You son't want any valve slap if you do decide to go with the 272's

 

[DSMTyson]

Don't over look this. These are really cheap when you can find them. I was lookin for a long time, I eventually gave up.

Like I said earlier, if you have the time to wait you will save some money.

As for the head. When you take it to your buddy let him know that you think that it is warped. Just have him double check to make sure that it is good.

When you do decide to replace your head gasket, there are many different thicknesses to be aware of. Do some research so that you get the right thickness. You son't want any valve slap if you do decide to go with the 272's

There is some EVO springs on the ECMTuning classifieds right now .

 

[Talipse96]

There is some EVO springs on the ECMTuning classifieds right now .

This site? ECMTuning, Inc. cause I can't find them.

I did end up buying other springs but I'm sure the OP or anybody else can take advantage of this if you gave a link.

Just to anybody wanting to get the EVO springs. Make sure you do your research and know what these springs can and can not do.

 

[awzer2]

my car only runs on cylinders 1 and 4 now #### my life...
this happened to a gst of mine a while back

coils 2 and 3 wont spark out of nowhere....

 

[gofer]

Stock head components can do 400+ whp, its the bolt on's and the tune that put the power to the pavement. Since your asking for specific parts heres my head build that I did on a budget, which was less than $1300.

-FP2 cams... $300 (used from our classifieds)
-Evo IX valve springs & retainers... $40 (used off of SoCalEvo)
-engnbldr SS valves, engnbldr bronze valve guides, Topline revised lifters... $200 (engnbldr vendor off eBay)
-ARP head studs... $80 (new but "used" from our classifieds)
-Mitsu composite headgasket... $60 (extremepsi)​

Of course I had a machine shop resurface, clean, and do a valve job on the head before I installed everything on the car which came to $200. I also replaced ALL my gaskets when I pulled the head and did the install, I ordered the 2g HG Replacement Kit from extremepsi.