my budget head build

[Aproductions]

how does all of this sound for a budget head?

evo 9 springs and retainers
EPN SS valves, lifters, and bronze guides
viton blue stem seals
cometic MLS headgasket ( is this a good mls one )
delta regrind cams ( not sure what profile yet )
cam gears ( BC, AEM, or fidanza )

let me know what you guys think.

I might not get the guides if the shop says mine are fine, but it would be a piece of mind anyways.

 

[Jonman409]

I would use that setup with a mitsu mls gasket.

 

[Aproductions]

yeah well basically the block and head are going to be done for a mls headgasket but I just need to know which one.

the mitsubishi one is better than the cometic one?


I was checking this out http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201582

 

[noV8undrDIShood]

mitsu mls all the way man

 

[Aproductions]

you guys don't think the cometic is good?

 

[snowborder714]

Weren't your other 2 threads enough for opinions??

 

[Aproductions]

they were only about the engnbldr kit

this is everything for the head.

and you told me to post in the correct sections anyways so I did and now I'm still getting bashed.

 

[snowborder714]

I thank you for posting in the proper section. The other threads seemed to be more than just about one specific part. But continue on gathering opinions/suggestions. Just keep in mind that one thread about one topic is usually the best way to do it.

 

[Aproductions]

I thank you for posting in the proper section. The other threads seemed to be more than just about one specific part. But continue on gathering opinions/suggestions. Just keep in mind that one thread about one topic is usually the best way to do it.

yeah but so many parts, I didn't want to be annoying again and have like 7 threads all about my head refresh.

but I will keep that in mind.




anyways, I still need to research for what cam profile to go with from delta and what cam gears.

but depending on what the machine shop says, I know what to do with the rest of the valve train.


basically I guess this is turning into what headgasket is for me.

I know I want to go with a MLS but

mitsubishi MLS is like $137 on MAP
the Cometic MLS is like $80 on MAP


those are really the only 2 that are MLS that I would pay for

I just need opinions on if the mitsubishi 1 is worth the extra $60ish

I don't plan on really ever going over 25psi on a holset h1c...so maybe 20 daily



EDIT: and now I'm seeing 1.6 and 1.3 mm....which would I run?

 

[Jonman409]

I would go with the Mitsu MLS for sure. it's been proven over and over and would be worth the little bit more even if just for reassurance. Do it right/proven the first time. Slap in some arp's and never worry. Also I will be ordering some new cams in a few months and I heard that delta has kelford 272 grinds, so I would probably be trying those out when I start shopping cams.

 

[Aproductions]

I am trying to save where I can but do you guys think the one is that much better than the cometic one?

I mean I really won't go over 25psi and I have new arps

 

[Jonman409]

I don't plan on really ever going over 25psi on a holset h1c...so maybe 20 daily

You say that now, but the h1c really starts to wake up around 25, and then you'll be hooked.

 

[Aproductions]

I don't plan on really ever going over 25psi on a holset h1c...so maybe 20 daily

You say that now, but the h1c really starts to wake up around 25, and then you'll be hooked.

yeah but I am running 9:1 pistons and pump gas (93 oct)

So I really think for daily driving I will be at 20-25psi only.

what is the difference in the 2 mls's...like how much can each handle, and are there any bigger HP guys running the cometic one?

 

[BogusSVO]

the cometic is a good gasket too.....

the tickness you will need will depend on what thickness your head is after it is machined

BTW... with the spring set up you are getting.. you will NOT be able to run Kelford, or Delta's Kelford clone cams, they will be way to agressive for the spring pack you have chose.

 

[jrohner]

BTW... with the spring set up you are getting.. you will NOT be able to run Kelford, or Delta's Kelford clone cams, they will be way to agressive for the spring pack you have chose.

I'm running them on stock springs. I don't like the cams though cause they killed my launch vs the BC272's I had before that made close to the same hp.

 

[2slow4utsi]

Save some money and don't buy cam gears.

 

[97ebaygst]

I am interested on the answer to the mitisu vs cometic hg too. If some one could chime in and give a valid break down and the benifets and faults on either that would be awesome. All I seem to find for answers are that one is better then the other, but what in looking for is why one is better then the other.
The reason I ask is because I recently had my timing belt snap on me and I pretty sure I bent some valves (haven't taken the head off yet) and I thought I might as well upgrade the hg and bolt while I was at it. Well about 95% of people agree on arp head studs but there are different views in hg's. Well I have a stock motor, with a small 16g, intake, front mount intercooler, and a evo 9 fuel pump. Also a 98 ecu if that makes a difference. But I don't plan on upgrading anything else in the motor and I don't really see a point in a mitsu mls hg if I'm not running over 25 psi. But that's why I won't a good vs written out. I don't want to spend the money on the mitsu but if it really is the better choice then ill make the purchase.

 

[BogusSVO]

I'm running them on stock springs. I don't like the cams though cause they killed my launch vs the BC272's I had before that made close to the same hp.

well your the first I have heard of doing that and getting away with it.

I have read/posted in a few "broken valve spring" threads

What do you rev them to?

 

[Aproductions]

the cometic is a good gasket too.....

the tickness you will need will depend on what thickness your head is after it is machined

BTW... with the spring set up you are getting.. you will NOT be able to run Kelford, or Delta's Kelford clone cams, they will be way to agressive for the spring pack you have chose.

so the cometic gasket is fine?

and I wasn't planning on getting the kelfords, they are too aggressive for me haha.


but maybe you should tell this guy before he does some damage.

I'm running them on stock springs. I don't like the cams though cause they killed my launch vs the BC272's I had before that made close to the same hp.

Save some money and don't buy cam gears.

wouldn't it help with degreeing my cams though?

 

[herms99gst]

not trying to kack your thread, im just want to tell you what my "budget head consist of and maybe you can get some ideas:

2g head debur and polish -75 dollars
engnbuldr hla's, bronze valve guides, 1mm int and exhaust....all of this for 210
Cometic MLS- 90
ARP- 90
Manley springs ti retainers- 220
I think im going with delta k272's- 380(billet)
And im also consideriing evo roller rockers...not sure yet

So right now 685 in head...not including cams. My assembly and machine work was done in exchange for a hx-35 so i got lucky.
As for the mls...the mitsu is tried and proven. But if your head and block are machined to the correct finish it should seal....we will see.

 

[Aproductions]

sound awesome.

I don't have the money for better spring and retainers.

I think my final list will be the

evo 9 springs and retainers
arps
the engnbldr kit
the hks delta regrinds
the cometic MLS
aem or fidanza cam gears ( does it really matter? or should I just get the cheaper one?)

 

[pneumo]

One of the big differences I've seen between the Cometic and Mitsu MLS HG is that the Cometic needs to have a machined flat surface on the block AND head. If both surfaces are machined for a metal HG then it'll hold plenty of power.

The Mitsu MLS HG conforms better if you can't machine the block flat.

Use ARP headstuds either way.

I'd rather have top quality cams that don't need to be degreed and skip the adjustable cam gears. Cheap cams plus adjustable cam gears will cost more.

 

[Aproductions]

I just want the gears so I can degree my cams and get some more power out of them.

I found the aem ones for $175 and fidanza used ones for $100

 

[herms99gst]

Honestly if your going to by aftermarket cams and want to extract the most power from them cam gears would be the way to go. Especially if you plan on having any dyno time, ive read t makes it easier for the tunner to do their job more efficiently. Why would you buy a component that u can get x amount of power from if just installed, or with a little time and patience u can achieve greater numbers....its like wasting money in a way.

 

[JacksonAuto]

Aftermarket cams plus stock springs is asking for trouble. Remember, it's all about the combination. You'll end up beating the head to death. At that point you WILL need new guides, seats and oversize valves.

Who ended up doing your work?