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Peicing together budget head

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caliboy23

20+ Year Contributor
97
1
Nov 8, 2002
Fairfield_Ca.
I'm piecing together my first cylinder head. I'm having my local cylinder head shop do the 3 angle valve job, cleaning, and resurfacing. Then a friend of mine with EXCEPTIONAL porting skills will be doing the port and polish work. My question is this...... At what point do I need to make the move to the 3G lifter? Also what's the best bang for the buck as far as getting +1 mm valves, with springs and retainers? I'm planning to use the reground DKS 272's from FFWD Connection. Unless of course there's a better set of cams out there for the price that aren't regrinds.
 
aren't dks $350. you could get a pair crower 64413-2 which are 272's for 356 shipped at MAP. MAP, also has the SI performance valves for under 200 with 1mm over-sizing. personally i wouldn't get 3g lifter untill yours start ticking.
 
I would get the lifters now if you can. they are not that expensive and its easier to do them now than when its all together. For cams i'd probably go with some mild FP or comp cams. they are cheaper than HKS cams but still are a quality piece. IMHO brian crower doesnt have the best quality control and will take some degreeing to get them to match up with the specs on the cam card. I dont know your budget but if you can, i would spend the extra few bucks if you could and have the piece of mind. SI's are decent valves though. i wouldn'thesitate to go with an SI, Supertech,ferrea, ect. valve.
 
I would get the lifters now if you can. they are not that expensive and its easier to do them now than when its all together. For cams i'd probably go with some mild FP or comp cams. they are cheaper than HKS cams but still are a quality piece. IMHO brian crower doesnt have the best quality control and will take some degreeing to get them to match up with the specs on the cam card. I dont know your budget but if you can, i would spend the extra few bucks if you could and have the piece of mind. SI's are decent valves though. i wouldn'thesitate to go with an SI, Supertech,ferrea, ect. valve.


Well, I'm not really trying to get a mild cam actually. I'm trying to get the most agressive cam profile I can get without running into vacuum problems. I'm using a chipped eprom rather than a stand alone and I've always heard that the 280's are too much for a chipped ecu to handle. So one of these days I might opt for the stand alone but until then I want my setup to work well in conjunction to the rest of my mods.

As far as the price on the DKS's, last I checked they were $297. But I'm sure tax, shipping, and the core charge bumps that way up.
 
Well, I'm not really trying to get a mild cam actually. I'm trying to get the most agressive cam profile I can get without running into vacuum problems. I'm using a chipped eprom rather than a stand alone and I've always heard that the 280's are too much for a chipped ecu to handle. So one of these days I might opt for the stand alone but until then I want my setup to work well in conjunction to the rest of my mods.

As far as the price on the DKS's, last I checked they were $297. But I'm sure tax, shipping, and the core charge bumps that way up.

Are you going to be burning the chips yourself? If your not, its very cheap and pretty easy to operate. Any other option you would choose(dsmlink,aem,ets) is going to require some base knowledge of "tuning" as well
I recently installed hks 264/272 cams and I had to add a good amount of fuel at idle and some in the midrange and topend. Cams completely alter your engine's volumetric effiency and will most likely require some tuning to get your a/fs in check from where they were with stock cams
 
Are you going to be burning the chips yourself? If your not, its very cheap and pretty easy to operate. Any other option you would choose(dsmlink,aem,ets) is going to require some base knowledge of "tuning" as well
I recently installed hks 264/272 cams and I had to add a good amount of fuel at idle and some in the midrange and topend. Cams completely alter your engine's volumetric effiency and will most likely require some tuning to get your a/fs in check from where they were with stock cams



Nah I won't be burning my own chips. I baught the stage 3 from Jeff at dsmchips.com

But as far as tuning and cams go, I'm planning to have Road Race dyno tune the car after the head is installed and I dial in what I can with the AFC2 and my wideband.

What's the story about Brian Crower parts? I noticed extreme psi sells his cams with springs and retainers for $549. But I see people who aren't even using his parts are talking about poor quality control and tuning difficulties. Is there any fire to go with all the smoke?
 
idk im going to be buying a set. my buddy has a set of 280's like them, another freind who had the 288's he liked them also all with out any problems. they are 590 at map. map will also price match and you get free shipping.
 
What's the story about Brian Crower parts? I noticed extreme psi sells his cams with springs and retainers for $549. But I see people who aren't even using his parts are talking about poor quality control and tuning difficulties. Is there any fire to go with all the smoke?

All of the cams for dsm's are typically advertised as 264/272/280,etc. They don't necessarily share the same specs as as far as duration at .050",ramp rates, etc. It can be more viewed as Stages so to say. I have heard as well that the BC parts are not of the best quality as compared to some of the competitors. I have no personal experience to add though. I've heard good things as well. Kelfords seem to be very high quality and give good numbers all the way around compared to its competitors but come with a hefty price tag. HKS has been proven for forever and are also pricey. The FP grinds which are Comp Cams have a good reputation as well. There's also regrind options like FFWD or Delta Cams which is by far the cheapest option which has good feedback. As far as budget valves, I hear nothing good things about the stainless kit from the ebay seller EngBldr or something like that. It really just depends on your funds and how "budget" you're looking to go.
 
The ultimate budget head would be a stock rebuild with springs/retainers, stock valves, a quick clean up of the exhaust ports, and a set of GOOD cams. Stock head with springs/retainers/stock valves has gone 9's. An exceptional port job wont really affect performance to the point that you're like "holy crap my car pulls hard because of this port job!". You'll never know the difference.

Personally, I wouldnt run DKS cams. They use shims and I just dont like the idea of adding parts to the head that could fail. I know others use them with good luck, but I just would never do that myself.
 
I've heard that removing the excess lip around the valve seats is the best and most simple improvement to at least the 1g heads to yield a good gain in flow. But regardless either a 1g or 2g head with the necessary valve springs and other parts to rev high should be capable of plenty of flow with minimal port work and clean up of rough casting.
 
Yeah the port work I'm referencing is right on the same page as what you guys are talking about. Simply taking down the casting imperfections, and cleaning up the bowls while polishing the chamber and exhaust ports.

I think the Brian Crowers sound like a great option from the research I've done. I've called a few places now and everyone says the same thing. "We sell lots of BC parts and have almost no problems to speak of. And even if something did happen, we stand behind what we sell, and BC stands behind what he makes."

Granted, if this weren't a budget head and I was shooting for 1,000 hp I wouldn't sell short or skimp on quality. But considering Kiggly ran 8's on stock size valves I think I'll be good.
 
I can't believe your skimping out on tuning.. Ya the stage 3 chip is nice but honestly for how much more dsmlink lite is... Your car will not be at its full potential..

research delta cams.. They do regrinds but there are pretty damn good...
 
Pm RADdsm Or DSMhottie Rad had a set of regrinds based off the HKS grinds done for $140.00 I believe it was 4-5 day turnaround. Im sending a set to the place soon. They are in Oregon or Washington I believe. That would give you another $100 to play with
 
I can't believe your skimping out on tuning.. Ya the stage 3 chip is nice but honestly for how much more dsmlink lite is... Your car will not be at its full potential.

I first baught the Stage 3 chip before DSM link V3 came out. I figured that with the GM MAS, the extra couplers and clamps, the translator, the socketed eprom, and then purchasing the DSM Link V2 itself, I was close enough to the cost of the AEM. So with the several hundred dollars I saved doing it this way, I have enough money left over to buy a second stage of nitrous. The car WILL be dyno tuned just as it would've had I opted to waste my money on DSM Link V2. However the few extra ponies I might've picked up with the link have been MORE than compensated for with the extra nitrous.

Giving up 10 to get 75-100 sounds like good math to me.
 
I can't believe your skimping out on tuning.. Ya the stage 3 chip is nice but honestly for how much more dsmlink lite is... Your car will not be at its full potential..

research delta cams.. They do regrinds but there are pretty damn good...


:thumb: I gained about 100whp, 13mph and shaved .6 off my et from switching to dsm link.
 
You can get by with the stage3 chip from Jeff in conjunction with the SAFC. The only criticism I have is that you have no timing control. You will definitely need a logger and wideband of course. But, you can always send the chip back to Jeff for reflashing and changes to the timing,etc. Plus if you tell him your exact setup and boost, he may have a good idea of a base table. Plus if you have a 1g, you can adjust the CAS for a few degrees of play.
It is also pretty cheap just to learn how to do the chips yourself, that way you don't have to wait for your new chip and can make yourself a few different chip for different fuels, etc
 
You can get by with the stage3 chip from Jeff in conjunction with the SAFC. The only criticism I have is that you have no timing control. You will definitely need a logger and wideband of course. But, you can always send the chip back to Jeff for reflashing and changes to the timing,etc. Plus if you tell him your exact setup and boost, he may have a good idea of a base table. Plus if you have a 1g, you can adjust the CAS for a few degrees of play.


I'm driving around on the car right now just fine with base timing set and a safe AFR. When I finish building the head I'm gunna start on my own recipe for a shortblock. I'm not gunna say right now what parts I'm gunna use because I want it to be my own special secret. But by the time the head and block are done, I'll be ready to move up to either AEM or Link.
 
:thumb: I gained about 100whp, 13mph and shaved .6 off my et from switching to dsm link.

I gained more than that going from stock to Jeff's stage 3. What were you using before?
 
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