11 Second pumpgas Big16g

[ceedawg]

Update:

Attended CCDSM's track rental yesterday. Drove the car down , made 11 passes, drove it home, no problems. Finally got that FP Race manifold on, Gotta say, it's an awesome peice. Also put on a rebuilt throttle body from Hal Landry. No real changes to my tune.

Best time was a 11.738 @ 118.52 mph. Car pulled 5 11 second passes, and the rest were low 12s. Missed 2nd a few times from too much wheel spin, but still managed 12.3-12.4's at 115mph. 17" wheels aren't really the best for drag racing...

Car is MOVING up top for a 16g car. Still on 93 octane. I think I'm shooting for 120mph traps with the cams.... Hopefully the turbo lasts though, It's been smoking I've noticed every now and then.

I-M-P-R-E-S-S-I-V-E Bro
I have a custom forced air CAI built by Wret and I'm debating on getting the 4" intercooler from ETS or the 4" race intercooler from Buschur.

Good stuff bro and keep up the good wrk.

I'm sure that CAI and 4" intercooler made all the difference in the world. People don't fully realize the importance of nice cool forced ambiant air and low IAT's.


Even more impressive to me is this just being done on a low budget(meaning basically stck motor) and a 16g. Plus you can drive your ass off!

 

[ceedawg]

I wouldn't consider 118mph "not efficent".... Just me. The car is making fantastic power, if I was past it's effiency range, I wouldn't be gaining any power.

There are a few guys that run their Evo 3's up to 30psi spikes on race gas. I'd say thats closer to the limit than I am. Honestly, I'm not running that much boost compared to other guys.

I like pushing the small turbo this hard, to prove that you don't need a big turbo to go fast. I still see LOTs of 20g, 50 trims, 30r+ guys running slower than this. What's the point? When I put my Green on, It'll run just that much harder.

Exactly! Again thanks to the intercooler,CAI and a good tune!

 

[chavez408]

Why not? If I had the time to invest, I'd love to start with a 14B and slowly work bigger, seeing what I can extract from each turbo.

Here's what TPG Tuning did at the track with a 16G on pump gas around 27psi:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/262203-new-evo-iii-16g-record-et-no-no2.html
YouTube - TPG Tuning Pat @ 10.49

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....and again on the dyno:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/292196-499awhp-16g.html

Now being that there are guys out there running high 11's with GT35R's, doesn't that make you re-think your turbo choice?

is that foil on his intake?

 

[FonZ454]

I-M-P-R-E-S-S-I-V-E Bro
I have a custom forced air CAI built by Wret and I'm debating on getting the 4" intercooler from ETS or the 4" race intercooler from Buschur.

Good stuff bro and keep up the good wrk.

I'm sure that CAI and 4" intercooler made all the difference in the world. People don't fully realize the importance of nice cool forced ambiant air and low IAT's.


Even more impressive to me is this just being done on a low budget(meaning basically stck motor) and a 16g. Plus you can drive your ass off!

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

Yeah, I was debating on the BR core or the ETS, but I got the ETS during a special, and still, the BR core is like $900 for the core alone.. too much for my tastes.

I've heard so many times "oh you run a CAI on a turbo car? what a ricer"... etc... but I can garantee it makes a diference. Taking off the CAI and having the filter in the stock location, adds a few hundred RPM's to spool right there. Making everything work as efficently as possible is the key to making power, not bolting on a slew of parts and hoping for the best.

My car did start off as "low budget" and I like to still think it is. But I'm slowly replacing all my parts with better quality ones (intercooler, exhaust, manifold, suspension, etc) in favor of better stuff that will help vs. parts that I don't have or need.

The car is really just a simple setup... that works.

Might be installing cams today. Maybe pick up a few more mph after that

 

[Black_Bullet]

2 step was set at 5500rpms. No antilag. I launch off the 2 step, but with no boost. Whenever I launch with boost, the car will not hook up , just all wheelspin. 16g makes torque instantly that launching with boost never works. NLTS the first 2 shifts, and the 3-4 I DO lift, just because it feels a lot faster to me to do it that way. Just drive the hell out of the car . AFR's were low 11's throughout the pass, a little leaner could of helped. Also more agressive timing could of helped too, but I didnt even bother.

Oh, it was also 80*+ out all day. I want to run on a cold street night and see what she does.

AWESOME Ryan.

I need to get out to the autocross next yr, your car looks pretty low
to the ground, your not hitting the bumpstops, the struts suck on these cars.

So you like that FP mani, notice any differences worth mentioning?
And you got the same cams I did right ( BC272). You probably will gain another 1-2mph with them imo;
so 120mph traps at full effort pass is very reasonable... And very sick considering this is pump gas...

BTW; I NLTS on all gears, why do you feel its slower in 3-4? Shift time?

And with what you mentioned about your launches, I 2step in full boost and I do spin some, and now that I think about it, maybe thats why this car never cut lower than a 1.7 60ft...

Why do people enjoy pushing this small turbo past its limits? It cant be too efficient after 17-19psi. I wouldnt think pushing it past its efficiency range would be helpful.

IMO, the 16g is fine up to 25psi; and keep making good power up there too.
I run mines daily spiking 23-24psi falling to 21 at redline.

But thats it, I dont think its worth it to run it beyond that, the shaft speeds get ridiculous and the turbo will fail in short order constantly running it beyond 25lbs.
Obviously a MHI e316g will last a lot longer at this level than all those other 16g variations.

A lot of the guys running their 16gs at 30psi open wastegate; I recall hearing their turbos not lasting very long; and bearing failures.

I like pushing the small turbo this hard, to prove that you don't need a big turbo to go fast. I still see LOTs of 20g, 50 trims, 30r+ guys running slower than this. What's the point? When I put my Green on, It'll run just that much harder.

It is indeed pump gas, but over here we can't get it. And it's knock prevention is FAR greater than 93 octane. e85 cars will make power of race gas cars, which is awesome... But making good power on 93 octane is a lot trickier.

I REALLY want e85 out this way... Oh man

You and me both.... Just imagen another 50-60 horses at the wheels on your daily tune.

 

[fwdeclipse]

That is some awesome times man. I just ran a 12.1@116 last night but it was on the golden e85. I am a little up there in elevation though at 4700ft. I hope to run an 11 this year too.

 

[FonZ454]

AWESOME Ryan.

I need to get out to the autocross next yr, your car looks pretty low
to the ground, your not hitting the bumpstops, the struts suck on these cars.

So you like that FP mani, notice any differences worth mentioning?
And you got the same cams I did right ( BC272). You probably will gain another 1-2mph with them imo;
so 120mph traps at full effort pass is very reasonable... And very sick considering this is pump gas...

BTW; I NLTS on all gears, why do you feel its slower in 3-4? Shift time?

And with what you mentioned about your launches, I 2step in full boost and I do spin some, and now that I think about it, maybe thats why this car never cut lower than a 1.7 60ft...


IMO, the 16g is fine up to 25psi; and keep making good power up there too.
I run mines daily spiking 23-24psi falling to 21 at redline.

But thats it, I dont think its worth it to run it beyond that, the shaft speeds get ridiculous and the turbo will fail in short order constantly running it beyond 25lbs.
Obviously a MHI e316g will last a lot longer at this level than all those other 16g variations.

A lot of the guys running their 16gs at 30psi open wastegate; I recall hearing their turbos not lasting very long; and bearing failures.

shhh:

You and me both.... Just imagen another 50-60 horses at the wheels on your daily tune.

With the coilovers, you can have the car low, but still have plenty of shock travel... Not like a stock length strut... BIG plus to having coilovers and having the car low. I don't hit the bumpstops. I'm happy I went with coils vs. stock style struts + coils or springs.

FP manifold, I didn't datalog, but I seriously think that was what picked up my extra 2mph. That thing is amazing I must say, great manifold. Car pulled nicer all around it seems. Highly recommened piece.

Cams are now in. I need to do a little tuning, car does seem to pull nicer up top. Just the inital "hard hit of full boost" is not as hard, but I'm going to say the car is definately making more power.

The NLTS 3-4... I don't know, I just honestly feel I can do it faster without nlts. I just get my whole body into it .

And yup, I launch without boost and I think it helps vs. with boost. Or atleast < 5psi... anything else is just 1.8 or slower 60' times.

I may be attending Import Wars next weekend at NED (not my local track) and the track is supposedly a little quicker, so I'll run there, see what the cams do and hopefully hit 120mph We'll see what happens. Also leaving for an autocross in about 5 hours, I should get to bed right now!

 

[Black_Bullet]

With the coilovers, you can have the car low, but still have plenty of shock travel... Not like a stock length strut... BIG plus to having coilovers and having the car low. I don't hit the bumpstops. I'm happy I went with coils vs. stock style struts + coils or springs.

FP manifold, I didn't datalog, but I seriously think that was what picked up my extra 2mph. That thing is amazing I must say, great manifold. Car pulled nicer all around it seems. Highly recommened piece.

Cams are now in. I need to do a little tuning, car does seem to pull nicer up top. Just the inital "hard hit of full boost" is not as hard, but I'm going to say the car is definately making more power.

The NLTS 3-4... I don't know, I just honestly feel I can do it faster without nlts. I just get my whole body into it .

And yup, I launch without boost and I think it helps vs. with boost. Or atleast < 5psi... anything else is just 1.8 or slower 60' times.

I may be attending Import Wars next weekend at NED (not my local track) and the track is supposedly a little quicker, so I'll run there, see what the cams do and hopefully hit 120mph We'll see what happens. Also leaving for an autocross in about 5 hours, I should get to bed right now!

Thats great man, looks like your having fun.
I will eventually get a nice coilover, adjustable suspension setup over these kybs gr2s and H&R's.

Hey get some videos up of you autocrossing, drag racing, launching, idling your cams, hell even racing yourself on a back road .

Yea you have to get used to the low end lose of torque with the cams, when I first installed them I wasnt too pleased, since they are 272s on a 16gs powerband, but when I started retuning and turning the boost up it was like

Like I told you before, I had to pull out a lot of timing thru torque peak and under about 5400rpms after the cam install, it just did not like timing at that point, but up top ( were boost is nose diving) i am getting pretty aggressive timing, up to 19-20 degs...(93octane)

The cams will help too at the track if your trying to carry out your gears a little longer for gearing advantage as the power wont drop off as fast, even on the 16g.
This will come in handy on those 60fts by carrying first gear out to like 7700-7800, so I think that eliminates having to shift before the 60ft mark. I havent actually tried it yet because the one launch I got with the cams in slipped the clutch bad, but give it a shot; and let me know if that really works.

 

[bullettdsm]

Cams are now in.

I may be attending Import Wars next weekend at NED (not my local track) and the track is supposedly a little quicker, so I'll run there, see what the cams do and hopefully hit 120mph We'll see what happens. )

Nice.

Good luck with that Fonz. NED is by far a better track. You'll get better traps, and there is a better launching pad there than at LVD. LVD is what it is, a close enough backyard track to have some fun at. I launch in the mid 1.8's with my NA set-up. That day at LVD I was doing 1.9's.

So, if you go, I plan on seeing 11.5's from you (no pressure here ).

Congrats and have fun,

MB

 

[turbotalon1g]

How did it go? i have such a big headache trying to figure out what cams to go with for my evo3 16G.
I am ready to go back to stock cams.

 

[Black_Bullet]

How did it go? i have such a big headache trying to figure out what cams to go with for my evo3 16G.
I am ready to go back to stock cams.

Depends what you want and how far you want to go.

The old school favorite is the 264/272 combo.
Theres been test showing there was no significant lose of power up top with that setup vs straight 272s,
yet the 264/272 combo yielded more torque midrange....

But now days people ( like me ) just jump straight to 272's or bigger even on little turbos like the 16g and going for max effort, with the " I am going to get a bigger turbo one day " mindstate ...

You definitly will want cams though if you are trying to make some power, even just straight 264s are hella better than stock.... Ive also heard the Fp1x are awesome cams for the 16g up to the 50 trim setups.
The increase ramp rate offers a lot more, and its worth it if you have the money to dish out the dual springs/ retainers from FP for those cams.

 

[chavez408]

It really depands on whatyou are going to do in the future. From what I kind of understand is that if you want 280 cams, you should back them up with a somewhat built motor and springs, retainers, ect. 280 will yell up top while the 272's have more of a smoother powerband.
Ill be purchasing some 272's for my bws258 soon. And ill stick with them even when I start building the motor.

 

[nctsiawd]

Hey, I was just curious; what rpms are you shifting at, 7000?

 

[nitromaxx14]

thats sick

 

[FonZ454]

Hey, I was just curious; what rpms are you shifting at, 7000?

Usually first I'll bring out to low 7000's, and the rest ~6600-6800. Never really rev it high at the track. Maybe with the 272's I should of brought it up higher, but I never saw a gain. My turbo was at 20psi no matter what at 6500+ rpm's, so I never saw a point of bringing it up any higher.

On the street the car feels brutal shifting 1-2 low, at like just over 6000 rpm's, but I can never pull that off at the track as just wheelspin or the launch just keeps the RPM's right up too high. Oh well.

Next year I think I'll make a few more passes with the 16g (if it survives the winter) to try some new stuff. I'd really like to hit 120mph on 93 octane, and the way the car is running right now, it's spiking a lot of boost and not knocking.

The car did go 120.6mph in Norwalk, on CAM2 gas. I DID get it from a gas station's pump but they don't sell any around here.

 

[nctsiawd]

Awesome Time!!! That's my goal too, is to get into the 11's with a pump gas only, street tune. I'm running a FP 18g and love it, I think it will take me there if I can just figure out my best shift points and a little more tuning with the EMS.

 

[FonZ454]

Get a good tune on that EMS, drive the car hard and it's possible. Youre turbo is bigger than mine, so more potential power, and the EMS could mean more power too, if it's tuned well. Entirely possible IMO. An 18g I wouldn't really bring much over 7000rpm's, unless it's still making power up there.. but I doubt it.

Since the accomplishments I've made with my car, I look at smaller turbos in a totally diferent way. I used to think 16g cars were just 13 second cars, and 12's if you were lucky.

 

[illegal99si]

hey what was your setup when you made your 11sec pass I went 11.80 @ 120mph on a big16g with a 1.6 60ft. that was back in 2006.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

nice man... real nice... i hit a 13.2 on my 2g with the same turbo, and seeing what your 1g did in a way inspires me.... hmmm, too bad my car dont run no more

 

[FonZ454]

hey what was your setup when you made your 11sec pass I went 11.80 @ 120mph on a big16g with a 1.6 60ft. that was back in 2006.

Car's setup is all in my profile.