11 Second Pump Gas Turbo

[JusMX141]

*Edit*

I was under the impression that Gabe was running 50/50 pump and race fuel on the 10.86 run as he did the previous trip to the track....I've been informed the 10.86 HY35 run was on straight 93 octane pump fuel, no meth injection- the same as last year's 11.14 @ 133.93 run.

 

[bastarddsm]

^ Definitely a good unit to have laying around.

Just to back up the HY35's pump gas effectiveness- Gabe's 11.14 @ 133 was done with a horrible 60ft from spinning the entire way through first gear (shown in the video). He recently ran a personal best of 10.86 @ 129, this time with a 50/50 mix of pump and race fuel....nothing else was changed. The 10.86 pass was quicker as a result of a 1.7 60ft, but the mph actually ended up a little slower.

Essentially the better fuel gave no real tuning advantage as the car still wasn't seeing knock with the HY35 using 93 octane pump fuel and a single Walbro 255 in the tank...even at 33psi.

What intercooler is he running?

I'm gonna need one of those made for me, unless I can somehow find a 5bolt O2 housing made for a DSM somewhere.

If you whisper enough sweet nothings in my ear I can set you up with one.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

If you whisper enough sweet nothings in my ear I can set you up with one.

psst psst psst psst psst

 

[bastarddsm]

I suppose I should setup to crank some of these suckers out. $125 turbo's that bolt to $175 manifold, and can go tens, are right up most dsmr's alley.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

You would have a hell of a demand, that's for sure!

 

[DSMReviver]

*Edit*

I was under the impression that Gabe was running 50/50 pump and race fuel on the 10.86 run as he did the previous trip to the track....I've been informed the 10.86 HY35 run was on straight 93 octane pump fuel, no meth injection- the same as last year's 11.14 @ 133.93 run.

I wounder what timing he was running?

 

[JusMX141]

Not sure on the brand of the FMIC, and Gabe doesn't really talk much about his tuning. We'll share launch control rpm's and anti-lag settings, but that's about as far as it goes....which is fine; I'd probably do the same thing if I was in his shoes.

 

[bastarddsm]

Well, I do know after playing with my hy35 on 93 for just a little bit, it still doesn't like timing. My ebay fmic blows and it's time to step up to a race core. I only made a couple pulls at 22-24psi and I can allredy tell its gonna be single digit timing at 30psi. Last time I logged IAT's I saw 140* on a 80* day making a 11.90's pass. I didn't figure that was too terrible, maybe it is? I wish someone would post honest numbers of what acceptible IAT's are.

 

[turboglenn]

Well, I do know after playing with my hy35 on 93 for just a little bit, it still doesn't like timing. My ebay fmic blows and it's time to step up to a race core. I only made a couple pulls at 22-24psi and I can allredy tell its gonna be single digit timing at 30psi. Last time I logged IAT's I saw 140* on a 80* day making a 11.90's pass. I didn't figure that was too terrible, maybe it is? I wish someone would post honest numbers of what acceptible IAT's are.

Well, as much as we all love to run as much timing as we can (which is way more important to get every last degree of advance on an N/A engine than it is compared to a turbo engine) Buschur de-railed my train of thought and proved that my theories/practices were more of leftover old SBC rule of thumb as far as how important timing is n the top end when it comes to a forced induction engine.

I remember him making a 4g63 push 600 WHP on pump gas with a huge turbo (can't remember the boost anymore) but his timing on this engine was just a plain 6* BTDC for every boost & RPM once the thing spooled up. This proved to me that it was more about how much air you could pump through the engine with a lot less focus on how perfectly timed your peak cylinder pressure was....

Timing that retarded is like running the engine as if it were the trailing plugs on a rotory, more or less just burning what's there "because", as it's still making pressure and continueing to spin the crank up and perpetuate the cycle of more air = more hp = more exhaust = more air again, etc..etc..etc...

Really when it comes down to all the tuning and setups i've played with over the years, it seems having the most timing you can get without causing detonation is more important for a street driven car that's well manered and making as much power as it can based on some limiting factor which is usually either, timimng advance, boost PSI, and the particular fuel's detonation threshold

I wish i could take screen shots of a good "street driven with great linear power with a broad curve" and the other that's just a "as much power on pump as possible" timing map so you could seewhat i mean (let me try and get a screen shot for you real fast of 2 of my maps that fit those particular goals.)


I'll edit/update this with them if i can get them off the laptop and uploaded to be viewable. and list the details of how they ran (one is my 57 trim's e85 street map and the other is the PTE6776 on the previouse owners car doing 672hp on pump + alky/water and is basically just a WOT peak HP race map)

- unfortunately in this case the resolution of the haltech system is so well spread that i will only be able to show a portion of the map on a full screen capture.. I can show more RPM than eiher car ran but will have to just show you boosts from ~12psi and up

ok, got around to digging them up, loading them to where you could see the pertinent information on timing... the first one was my 57 trim daily driven at 30psi and tuned nicely...... dyno'd the 438/396 on this map and my setup when i still had the 57 on there

the second one is the same series but an older haltech map imported into the 6x software instead of the DOS is was written in...although it was running 37psi, and making 672hp the car only had a 3bar map sensor, so although you can't see it the fueling has to be set rich enough for the 37psi flow at the top cell of 31.5psi , hey it'
s how we did back before you could just hop on the net and get an omni 4 bar, and 5 bar's were like buying a lexus also the second one is running a 67mm turbo 84mm exducers on pump with meth/water injection on top.


the text/cell format is the timing map in alpha-n mode where you see all RPM and BOOST ranges in one page...the top is a nice different view (2d) of each 500 RPM range from ful vac to full boost (there's 3d as well, but they're harder for comparison so i didn't capture those)

 

[JusMX141]

Last time I logged IAT's I saw 140* on a 80* day making a 11.90's pass. I didn't figure that was too terrible, maybe it is?

Yeah, that's pretty bad. Dave's old leaky DeJon core gained 20-25* during one pass down the track, and we thought that we could do better considering there are some folks with efficient intercoolers reporting their IAT's dropping during a pass down the track over what they were while sitting in the lanes.

 

[bastarddsm]

Well that makes sense. So I should be looking for ambient Iat's, and that should improve my car not wanting to make any power at all on 93.

 

[antilag_200]

Went 11.27 @ 126 in my full weight evo ( glass and interior)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

turbo was gt35r ( standard non HTA) with new comp and turbine housings.
the car made 515whp 384 wtq on buschurs dyno a couple of years ago.
boost level was 27 psi
fuel was 93 octane
tire size is 255 35 18s
1/8th mph was 96 mph ( best 101 mph)

vehicle with slicks..

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Steve93Talon]

A few years back I threw together a '90 AWD low budget pump gas setup, had under $5k into it including the car. It made 479whp and ran 11.8 @ 123 severely traction limited (I was using wheels with 205/55s from my previous 14b setup, I later put 225s on it and it was much better on the street but I never got it back to the track). I'd also previously had an S256 bolt-on that ran 11.9 @ 119 with the same basic mod list. Mods were:

BW S258 .70 T3
ERL cast T3 mani
JMF 3" o2/DP
Tial 38mm
FP2 cams
3.5" x 12" FMIC
DSMlink V3
2G MAF & FP 4" intake pipe
950s, 255, FPR
full 3"
AGX/Pro-kits
OEM Enkei 16s w/205/55 Kuhmo MXs
ACT 2600/street disc
Stock '92 trans/shifter/cables
Stock bottom end/head/intake

LINK

 

[forcefed86]

IMO... The single most important aspect of intercooler design is low internal pressure loss. Then efficiency. Ideal circumstances are said to be no more than a 2psi drop across the core. Back when people ran 10-12lbs of boost this wasn't hard to accomplish. The new DSM community runs huge amounts of boost compared to the "old days". This in turn makes intercoolers look less efficient when we are really just asking more from them.

My 26x10.5x3 ebay intercooler (boost coolers I believe?) works pretty well for a $160 IC. I was seeing an 18* raise in the ¼ mile using a E316g peaking at 35psi and settling to 26psi. I also used meth but this was post intake temp sensor. (95* day)

 

[pneumo]

IMO… The single most important aspect of intercooler design is low internal pressure loss. Then efficiency. Ideal circumstances are said to be no more than a 2psi drop across the core. Back when people ran 10-12lbs of boost this wasn’t hard to accomplish. The new DSM community runs huge amounts of boost compared to the “old days”. This in turn makes intercoolers look less efficient when we are really just asking more from them.

My 26x10.5x3 ebay intercooler (boost coolers I believe?) works pretty well for a $160 IC. I was seeing an 18* raise in the ¼ mile using a E316g peaking at 35psi and settling to 26psi. I also used meth but this was post intake temp sensor. (95* day)

Those are decent numbers. I'm typically seeing 10*F increase in IAT measured at the TB under similar conditions with a E16G at 29psi peak boost dropping to 24psi over 1/4 mile run. I'm using a 12x3.5" core.

IMHO one of the things holding some cars back is the traditional advice that it's possible to go too big. Screw it, use a big core and don't look back.