Zeitronix E85 Ethanol Content Analyzer + ECMLink/EVO ECU

[niles]

Is there any way to dynamically change/influence the ECU mapping with ECMLink or an EVO ECU on the basis of ethanol percentage reported by the Zeitronix E85 Ethanol Content Analyzer?

I know there are two switchable maps in ECMLink, so you could at least switch between maps with a simple comparator circuit with some hysteresis, but this isn't really sufficient, if you like to be able to drive any mixture.

Since I haven't bought ECMLink yet, I can't read their forums and don't know if there are any plans to do something like that.

 

[twdorris]

don't know if there are any plans to do something like that.

Yeah, what you're talking about is some way of dynamically adjusting fuel based on an ethanol-content signal. We have discussed this before on our forums and it's certainly possible, but the general consensus was that few people (at least here) would spend that kind of money when they can either just flip a switch for E85 vs. gasoline and/or manually tweak the global fuel adjustment after filling up to get fuel trims back where they were before filling up and pretty much have the same net result.

Basically, the idea is to idle for a few seconds just before filling up and noting the total fuel trim adjustment (or wideband reading if you choose to run open loop) before filling up and then simply adjust global fuel after filling up to get the same values. Then you've basically dialed the ethanol content in at that point and you drive on.

I've done that myself when filling the tank with E85. The first tank is never full E85, so I find that I don't need the full E85 adjustment. After the second and certainly after the third, I end up right where I'm supposed to be on full E85.

It's free, it's quick, it's easy....all reasons why an automatic ethanol adjustment just hasn't bubbled up on our to-do list yet. The downside, of course, is that you need to have your laptop handy at the time. But people seem to accept that pretty well.

Thomas Dorris

 

[donniekak]

There are devices and programming methods that keep the ecu in a closed loop type operation and use the wideband signal to self tune to a target afr. I do not know if the tuning range is enough to switch from e-85 to gasoline. I wouldn't want my ecu to be able to add or subtract %30 at wot fuel based on a wideband input, or mixture sensor. I have done what thomas is describing with mixtures in my stealth, and it takes about 2 minutes at the gas station to get it right. If you start with a rock solid perfect tune, all you need to adjust is injector size.

 

[niles]

Thank you for the advice to use the fuel trim and the global fuel adjustment with a laptop, but I already hear my wife/friend's voice from the passenger seat, why I won't buy a 'real' car that don't require any adjustments.

Another reason is that men make mistake, I just a matter of time you forgot to calibrate, make a mistake while calibrating, notice your forgot your laptop after filling up, the laptop's batteries are empty... I like to have a system I don't have to care about, because it is still a daily driver.

So that feature is really important to me. I will have a look on the EVO ECUs now, but I still like ECMLink more, because it is plug'n'play without altering the harness. I have to give it some thought.

@donniekak:
I understand your point of view, but I think the ethanol sensor is more failure-proof and has a MTFB one or more decimal powers higher than a WB sensor. I will have to find some documents about that.

 

[JeffGST]

Right now most of the country is in transition from E85 to E78, and there are some parts that already have switched to E70. The changes to the tune are not as important now, as they are in the Summertime. At the worst in the Winter, the ECU will force negative fuel trims and run rich at full throttle. It's really not a big deal, since it will just make you tune run a bit fatter on the AFRs which is not a horrible thing. But in the Summer, this is where you may need pay a bit closer attention to the fuel trims. The switch from E70 to E78 will cause you to run a bit leaner at WOT, so if your tune was on the edge already, you might have to make quick adjustments. Go to my website and check out the E85 schedule for your region.

E85 Global Calculation Info

I don't know if you have a GMAF Translator or not. If you do, then all you would need to do is adjust the "BASE" settings by 5% at the gas station, and you are good to go. When you finally are able to hook up the laptop to the ECU, then you can make adjustments to the Global setting and revert the BASE setting back to ZERO.

 

[Boug]

I know this is bringing back the dead, but a friend of mine sent me a pretty interesting achievement in the GTR world of which I responded to as follows: I know that this has been discussed in the DSM realm at length but I am not sure if there was support to invest the money by a company in a platform that is knocking on the 20-year old door. As for the EVO, I am not sure that this "on the fly" capability has been mastered. The only thing I know of is "map switching" but nothing to take into account the variances with E85 through the ECU. I believe there is enough demand for the EVO 8/9/10 but whether or not EcuTek (as it seems they have monopolized this capability) is looking in that direction. The question that I have is whether or not this capability can also take into account when you "have" to use non-E85 fuels and still be able to compensate the tune. My guts says yes as you will just be at a much lower E85 content level in the tank. My follow-on question (considering my first question is true), is whether or not it is possible to have a non-E85 tune that is still pretty good.

Here is what is happening in the GTR world: The days of test tubes and science projects at the gas station are over! After extensive testing I'm so very proud to announce the very first plug & play Flex Fuel Kit for the R35 GTR. With EcuTek Phase 3 software and Visconti Tuning custom maps I'm able to provide a calibration for all ethanol conditions. What does Visconti Tuning's Custom Flex Fuel Tuning & this kit do? 1. Change Cold Start Cranking Compensation based on ethanol content; 2. Change Maximum Target Boost based on ethanol content; 3. Change Ignition timing based on ethanol content; 4. Change target A/F based on ethanol content; 5. Change Cam Timing based on ethanol content; 6. Change Fuel Economy Gauge reading based on ethanol content. It's easy enough for most to install themselves, and is really 'Plug & Play'. The kit utilizes a Zeitronix Ethanol Content Analyzer and super slim GM Ethanol Content Sensor. The Ethanol Content sensor mounts on the firewall and is connected to your fuel system by two stainless PTFE fuel lines. The Fuel dampener easily accessible and attached to the back of your fuel rail by two 10mm bolts will need to be swapped out for the one that's included in this kit. Everything plugs directly into the secondary air pump plug which is located next to the battery. This kit is $1050 shipped in the USA and has a refundable $100 core charge for the fuel dampener (After $100 refund total cost is $950). Currently only EcuTek has written the custom code that is needed to utilize the signal from the ethanol content sensor, anyone with Cobb or UpRev will need to make the switch to EcuTek use this kit. Hopefully Cobb will support the custom code it takes to run this kit!

 

[Tx97GSX]

Now that e85 is a lot more common in places, I would love to have that feature in link to be able to let the ecu dynamically adjust the fuel based on ethanol content. Any chance that this will ever happen?

 

[phunny]

I sure hope so, I'd gladly pay for the update

 

[CrackedDSM]

The Evo 8 ECU does this(automatically adjusts your maps/curves based on ethanol content it sees in the tank via the Zeitronix sensor) and code is currently being developed for the Ostrich 2.0/TunerPro RT to do this as well. Has been able to for a long time, just for anyone that stumbles on this thread in the future.