E85/ecmlink/lc-1

[staztrx250]

Alright so I'm converting my stock talon to E85 to get some practice tuning with E85 before I build a good motor for it. I have a LC-1 wide-band o2 and I will be tying it into my ecmlink (v3 lite). My question is how do I get it to display correct AFRs. I know the ecm link and the LC-1 are set up to display gasoline AFRs. 7.5 to 22.5 I believe. But these are for gasoline, now I know you can just tune your car bases on these by tuning WOT to 12 ish. But I would like it to display the correct E85 AFRs(i.e. 9.765 stioch and 7 ish WOT) both on the gauge and the ecmlink logs. How do I do that?

 

[gofer]

Alright so I'm converting my stock talon to E85 to get some practice tuning with E85 before I build a good motor for it. I have a LC-1 wide-band o2 and I will be tying it into my ecmlink (v3 lite). My question is how do I get it to display correct AFRs. I know the ecm link and the LC-1 are set up to display gasoline AFRs. 7.5 to 22.5 I believe. But these are for gasoline, now I know you can just tune your car bases on these by tuning WOT to 12 ish. But I would like it to display the correct E85 AFRs(i.e. 9.765 stioch and 7 ish WOT) both on the gauge and the ecmlink logs. How do I do that?

9.7:1 is still a gasoline AFR reading, your going to have to convert your gauge to read in Lambda. Getting it to log in link as a 9.7:1 stoich wouldn't be too hard though, you'd just have to play with the values in AFREst and setup LinearWB values differently.

 

[snowborder714]

If you double click on the LC-1 and AFRatioEst (and OldAFRatio if you have it - I think that's what it's called) labels below the graph, you can change the Displayed stoich ratio from 14.7 to whatever you want.

For the gauge, you might have to use the LM Programmer software and reprogram it. I'd have to look more into that.

 

[staztrx250]

9.7:1 is still a gasoline AFR reading, your going to have to convert your gauge to read in Lambda. Getting it to log in link as a 9.7:1 stoich wouldn't be too hard though, you'd just have to play with the values in AFREst and setup LinearWB values differently.

Alright so if I do that what should a tune my WOT to?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

You can't tune a stock car on E85. Your gonna need at least a set of 650cc injectors. You'll burn the motor up in minutes on 450cc. Target 12.0-12.5 for AFR and go crazy with the timing since it's a stock turbo.

 

[JayRolla]

Why not just keep it reading in gas figures? I'm so used to tuning gas it's nice when watching the wbo2 without doing the math in your head.

 

[gofer]

Alright so if I do that what should a tune my WOT to?

Adam (95blackGsTurbo) made a thread just on this topic Tuning E85. And like Adam said, either update your profile or uprade your injectors/fuel pump because 450's won't cut it not even on the stock t25 and stock boost.

Personally I'm running 12.2 ~ 12.5:1 AFR's and 18* of timing at WOT, thats 100% corn juice in the tank though.

 

[staztrx250]

You can't tune a stock car on E85. Your gonna need at least a set of 650cc injectors. You'll burn the motor up in minutes on 450cc. Target 12.0-12.5 for AFR and go crazy with the timing since it's a stock turbo.

I'm running 750cc injectors, I forgot to update my profile

 

[gofer]

I'm running 750cc injectors, I forgot to update my profile

A few months ago, I think it was November actually, I saw a 2g put down roughly 240 awhp, 280 ft/lbs tq. All that he had done to it was injectors, fuel pump, cams, dsmlink v3, & converted to E85 running 17psi on the stock t25. He even had the stock 2g bov but it wouldn't let him boost more than 14psi so on the dyno we installed a Greddy Type S that was laying around and fixed the problem. Awesome setup and OEM looking engine even to the trained eye...

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the t25 is rated at 250cfm which is equivalent to about 20 lbs/min of airflow. If that info is correct then your 750's will give you plenty of fuel to the motor to run that t25 into the ground, even with E85 feeding the motor. The E85 makes your 750cc injectors roughly a 500cc injector, still bigger than the OEM 450's.

I say go for it, just get everything setup in link and do all the math before you go to the E85 station. That way right after you fill up you can pull open the laptop and make a few quick changes and bounce, if you don't you'll piss everyone off trying to fill up behind you cause you can't get your car to start.

Don't worry about trying to get everything to read the STOICH value for E85 and all that other non sense. I tune for a low to mid 12 AFR at WOT and 18* plus of timing. Gap your plugs a little tighter, .23-.24 and get NGK 7's if you don't have them already.

 

[standard235]

I hear you are also not supposed to run the OEM fuel filter because E85 doesn't like paper filter elements.

 

[gofer]

I hear you are also not supposed to run the OEM fuel filter because E85 doesn't like paper filter elements.

I've been running E85 on my OEM fuel filter with no problems, my IDC's are right where they should be at WOT to match the airflow/injector size I have. This is an ongoing debate over on dsmlink forums too, I think your OEM fuel lines/filter will work just fine until your boosting 30+psi and pushing 55lbs/min of airflow.

 

[staztrx250]

A few months ago, I think it was November actually, I saw a 2g put down roughly 240 awhp, 280 ft/lbs tq. All that he had done to it was injectors, fuel pump, cams, dsmlink v3, & converted to E85 running 17psi on the stock t25. He even had the stock 2g bov but it wouldn't let him boost more than 14psi so on the dyno we installed a Greddy Type S that was laying around and fixed the problem. Awesome setup and OEM looking engine even to the trained eye...

Wow that's pretty impressive. I was hopping to brake 210-215 awho on the stock turbo. What cams was he running? I hear that u can run the 1g's in the 2g and it give you another degree of lift? Did he even have a fmic? I'm planing on getting a 16g and a front mount ( and bigger injectors I'm thinking I'll need at lest 950cc to run a 16g) at the end of the summer so hopefully I'll be able to get to the 300 hp mark. You think that is a reasonable goal?


Edit:
What are you running for a base fuel psi? I was thinking either stock for mine or bump it up to 45-50 psi

 

[gofer]

Wow that's pretty impressive. I was hopping to brake 210-215 awho on the stock turbo. What cams was he running? I hear that u can run the 1g's in the 2g and it give you another degree of lift? Did he even have a fmic? I'm planing on getting a 16g and a front mount ( and bigger injectors I'm thinking I'll need at lest 950cc to run a 16g) at the end of the summer so hopefully I'll be able to get to the 300 hp mark. You think that is a reasonable goal?


Edit:
What are you running for a base fuel psi? I was thinking either stock for mine or bump it up to 45-50 psi

It is impressive, I have pictures of the damn thing doing it too because I knew nobody was going to believe me. The guy works for Sony and tests/creates Playstation games and just likes cars, he just doesn't modify them by the build book I guess you could say...

Stock intercooler/stock piping... I'm telling you all he had done was dsmlink, fuel pump, injectors, cams, boost controller, and E85. His dyno looked like a damn pyramid because the t25 would hit and then fall on its face hard but it was still cool to watch. The cams he was running were HKS 272's, I'm not sure if he had RRE degree them or not but I don't think they did.

950's are roughly equivalent to 660's on E85, so they are a bit of overkill for a 16g but its not bad overkill because you'll still be able to hold a good idle with them. You only kick up fuel pressure if your IDC's are looking a bit high, if your running 950's/E85/16g you can leave base fuel pressure at the usual 43.5psi.

The guy that did all this to his 2g is actually on tuners, he only gets on once a month though if that. His names Rusty and I'm sure if you drop a PM in his inbox he'll get back to you and like I said if you want to see what his hp/tq curve looked like I've got pictures of the dyno chart. Croakers Profile

 

[staztrx250]

...like I said if you want to see what his hp/tq curve looked like I've got pictures of the dyno chart. Croakers Profile

Yeah I'd like to see them

 

[gofer]

Here you go, I was even a bit conservative on his dyno hp/tq numbers... 311 tq by 3,100 rpm and 240 awhp by 4800 rpm!!! I'm telling you thats a sleeper setup and the last time I heard from him his t25 was still in good shape DD'ing it with that much boost.

 

[staztrx250]

well i got the fuel pump the ecm link and the injectors in when I went home last weekend. But iI couldn't get the damn o2 sensor out of the front. Tried everything from legit o2 sensor sockets and penetration oil to heat and a pipe wench. needless to say I think I'm just gonna leave it and get a new o2 housing when I get a 16g. For now i'll just weld in a new bung in the down pipe; of course that will have to wait until I go home again in to weeks. It sucks when you go to school fricken 3 hours away from home!

Anyone try speed density yet? what all do you need for that? a MAP and an IT? and what can you get rid of?

 

[gofer]

well i got the fuel pump the ecm link and the injectors in when I went home last weekend. But iI couldn't get the damn o2 sensor out of the front. Tried everything from legit o2 sensor sockets and penetration oil to heat and a pipe wench. needless to say I think I'm just gonna leave it and get a new o2 housing when I get a 16g. For now i'll just weld in a new bung in the down pipe; of course that will have to wait until I go home again in to weeks. It sucks when you go to school fricken 3 hours away from home!

Anyone try speed density yet? what all do you need for that? a MAP and an IT? and what can you get rid of?

A lot of people have tried SD, you need a MAP sensor and an IAT sensor and if you run it you can get rid of your MAF and the recirc off your bov.

 

[snowborder714]

I've been running SD since it came out. You'll want to keep your stock MAS in there to help build your VE table (so you don't have to do it from scratch). Then once that's decent, you can remove it and be on your way.

 

[staztrx250]

yeah I don't know if I'm going to mess with that yet I want to learn the software a little better yet before I start making drastic changes. A little off subject i hooked in a boost gage this weekend as well and i noticed I was getting a boost spike of 15 psi and then the boost tapered off to 11 psi normal or not?


Edit: note I haven't put a boost controller in yet so that's all stock as far as vac lines

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

I need to get some numbers on my car here soon. 2.3, T25, E85, SD and unhealthy amounts of boost .

 

[prockish_90gsx]

also keep in mind that on e85 you can tune past mbt or were the point on PUMP gas were you stop making power with timing. e 85 is very very knock resistant and will more than likely not show any until mass amounts of timing are in place.

 

[Thomas91169]

Wow that's pretty impressive. I was hopping to brake 210-215 awho on the stock turbo.

14b it. its still a stock turbo........