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Xona Turbo Upgrade Recommendation (FP 3052 related)

GST with PSI

DSM Wiseman
2,671
1,378
Jul 27, 2005
San Diego, California
Been a while...

I've been MIA while forward deployed, but got a brief break from the grind with internet access. So taking this opportunity to ask the crew some long awaited questions.

I have a couple questions for the group regarding Xona turbos. I'm looking to potentially upgrade my 3052 with a newer Xona setup when I get back.

First, question 1 is: I'm looking for something very comparable in capability. I'd like to upgrade to the Xona to hopefully take advantage of the newer aero and bearing designs, which I'm hoping will increase spool/power delivery across the powerband. I'm NOT really looking to increase peak power, so I don't need something larger. I really just want to make around the same power more efficiently, if that's possible. Right now, I'm running my 3052 at a bit over 30 PSI peak, which from what I know is right on the ragged edge for my compressor. I'm looking to upgrade, but would even use a turbo that made slightly less peak power if it meant better transient boost response and a fatter powerband. Thus, I'm looking at the Xona XR61-57S, which according to the small amount of information available on it would be comparable (physical specs wise at least) to my 3052: https://www.extremepsi.com/store/Xo...P-61lb-min-ULTRA-HIGH-FLOW-TURBINE-WHEEL.html

That being said, Xona has a million XR model turbos a bit smaller and a bit larger, and I'm looking to find a good fit given the goals stated above.

Question 2 is twofold: First, does anyone know if the Xona XR supercores will/can be made to fit a FP30 bolt on turbine housing? And, if it can, it that a terrible idea efficiency wise? Which brings me to my final question: If the FP30 housing can't be used, or will kill efficiency, what turbine housing do you all recommend? There are a bunch of TiAL V-Band and T-3 turbine housing options and honestly, I'm out of my league here (and don't currently have the bandwidth to research for hours on end) trying to decide which of the two million housings would best suit me given the goals I've stated above:

Turbine Housing Choices (available for the Xona XR61-57S specifically...Some of the other models have fewer turbine housing options):
  • TiAL V-Band Inlet / V-Band Outlet .63 A/R External Wastegate
  • TiAL V-Band Inlet / V-Band Outlet .82 A/R External Wastegate
  • TiAL V-Band Inlet / V-Band Outlet 1.03 A/R External Wastegate
  • TiAL V-Band Inlet / V-Band Outlet .62 A/R Internal Wastegate
  • TiAL V-Band Inlet / V-Band Outlet .80 A/R Internal Wastegate
  • T3 Inlet / V-Band Outlet .63 A/R External Wastegate
  • T3 Inlet / V-Band Outlet .82 A/R External Wastegate
  • T3 Inlet / V-Band Outlet 1.06 A/R External Wastegate
  • T3 Inlet / V-Band Outlet 1.21 A/R External Wastegate
Looking for recommendations from the people (spoons out). That being said, I'd prefer hard data points rather than opinions, but all feedback is welcomed. I'll likely be pairing this turbo upgrade with some other parts to improve efficiency, so the turbo itself isn't the end all solution to make better use of power being made. If upgrading to a T3 or V-Band needs to happen, obviously a new manifold will follow suit (recommendations there welcomed too).

Of note, I likely may not reply immediately/at all due to my current situation. I'll appreciate the feedback even if absent. Thanks in advance.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,505
3,587
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
I am watching this with you Brett! I like your thoughts of just a more efficient unit at about the same size power wise like having my 13b and my HX40 all in one unit!
 

Carlos Garcia

Probationary Member
7
0
Mar 24, 2019
tucson, Arizona
I had one of the first FP3052 sold in the market, literally I purchased it new weeks after it came out and with the 2.5" o2 housing offered by FP and all the bolt ons I was spooling 25 PSI at 3800 rpm on 91 oct plus ally which I think it was phenomenal. I recently had an opportunity of buying a garbage FP3052 with the idea of converting it to a Xona, I called FP (about a year ago) it would cost me roughly $1400 to convert to a Xona that they had on their website. They told me that even on the FP 3052's and other ball bearing they weren't making money because they weren't selling that many and it cost them significant money to keep the low demand happy. Personally I don't think is a wise choice to convert a 3052 to a xONA while putting $1500-$2000 extra , remember, the FP3052 bolts on with no modifications, with the Mona you are probably spending extra cash adding accessories. I am like you, I value drivability over anything that is why my cars use short route intercoolers, high pressure waste gate actuators and strongly shut BOV so that I can keep the torque high, spool up quick and fast response. Keep the FP3052, it is a heck of a turbo. I currently have a Dual BB AGP 3071ready to be installed, stock location off course, no drama, no cutting, no modifying. Good luck.

If you want good response, try the JMF race manifold with slightly larger TB, it netted me 1psi of boost, 20whp and 15 lb-tq on a Mustang Dyno to all 4 wheels and that was just bolting the manifold and no adjustments.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

GST with PSI

DSM Wiseman
2,671
1,378
Jul 27, 2005
San Diego, California
I had one of the first FP3052 sold in the market, literally I purchased it new weeks after it came out and with the 2.5" o2 housing offered by FP and all the bolt ons I was spooling 25 PSI at 3800 rpm on 91 oct plus ally which I think it was phenomenal. I recently had an opportunity of buying a garbage FP3052 with the idea of converting it to a Xona, I called FP (about a year ago) it would cost me roughly $1400 to convert to a Xona that they had on their website. They told me that even on the FP 3052's and other ball bearing they weren't making money because they weren't selling that many and it cost them significant money to keep the low demand happy. Personally I don't think is a wise choice to convert a 3052 to a xONA while putting $1500-$2000 extra , remember, the FP3052 bolts on with no modifications, with the Mona you are probably spending extra cash adding accessories. I am like you, I value drivability over anything that is why my cars use short route intercoolers, high pressure waste gate actuators and strongly shut BOV so that I can keep the torque high, spool up quick and fast response. Keep the FP3052, it is a heck of a turbo. I currently have a Dual BB AGP 3071ready to be installed, stock location off course, no drama, no cutting, no modifying. Good luck.

I'm not looing to have my 3052 converted. I'm simply looking into the possibility of using a Xona XR supercore in conjunction with a FP30 turbine housing VS a TiAL-V band or T-3 turbine housing. Having my 3052 converted wouldn't net me any of the advantages I mentioned in my initial post regarding the Xona XR's sexy new tech, so that was never even a consideration.


If you want good response, try the JMF race manifold with slightly larger TB, it netted me 1psi of boost, 20whp and 15 lb-tq on a Mustang Dyno to all 4 wheels and that was just bolting the manifold and no adjustments.

I already have a Magnus cast IM.
 

Vegas Smith

Proven Member
4,334
2,160
Dec 2, 2002
Houston, Texas
I asked Robert Young a while back ago if the new supercores could be mated to the fp30/35 housings and he said no. However, I would contact them directly because they were actually selling 5757s xonas with fp30 housings. Their website isn't very good and doesn't let you in on all that they can do. Maybe consider selling the fp3052 and upgrading to the 5757s? Should make more power/be more efficient and is their pick for autocross.
 
Last edited:

tstkl

Proven Member
3,874
60
Feb 10, 2005
SoCal, California
Have you looked at the new garrett g25-660 at all? It has more range on the low and high end than your fp3052 at 3:1 pressure ratio and is a much smaller turbo. The fp has a 76mm compressor while the g25 has a 67mm compressor. That's going to help a lot with transient response. Also the peak efficiency at those pressures is higher and the turbo speed as a percentage of peak turbo speed is lower. I'm not familiar with the xona stuff but I know that garrett doesn't make their turbos anymore so I'm not sure who their supplier is (it is very safe to assume they don't have the capital to hire an engineering team to design these themself). I'm pretty sure garrett was the supplier for the old fp30 turbine housings as well as the original tial turbine housings.

Anyways, it would help if you posted a lug line of your current setup (boost versus airflow) so I could plot it on some compressor maps.
 

GST with PSI

DSM Wiseman
2,671
1,378
Jul 27, 2005
San Diego, California
I asked Robert Young a while back ago if the new supercores could be mated to the fp30/35 housings and he said no. However, I would contact them directly because they were actually selling 5757s xonas with fp30 housings. Their website isn't very good and doesn't let you in on all that they can do. Maybe consider selling the fp3052 and upgrading to the 5757s? Should make more power/be more efficient and is their pick for autocross.

I emailed FP and they are telling me they can retrofit a XR5757S to one of their MHI style 8cm bolt on housings. I'm not thrilled with that idea, as the FP30 housing seems superior to the MHI housing, especially regarding the wastegate provision. Also, the price they ballparked was over $2k for that, which I'm even less than thrilled about.

It sees FP can machine the FP30 housing to work, but they don't seem like they are willing to do it due to a backlog of work. I'm going to press them more and see if they are willing.

I guess I waited too long and the bolt on Xona supply dried up. I remember when there were multiple bolt-on Xona setups using the FP30 designs available.

Maybe it's time to ditch the DSM stuff, and go to a new manifold setup. I suppose I am growing tired of being limited to what I can bolt on because of a manifold bolt pattern...


Have you looked at the new garrett g25-660 at all? It has more range on the low and high end than your fp3052 at 3:1 pressure ratio and is a much smaller turbo. The fp has a 76mm compressor while the g25 has a 67mm compressor. That's going to help a lot with transient response. Also the peak efficiency at those pressures is higher and the turbo speed as a percentage of peak turbo speed is lower. I'm not familiar with the xona stuff but I know that garrett doesn't make their turbos anymore so I'm not sure who their supplier is (it is very safe to assume they don't have the capital to hire an engineering team to design these themself). I'm pretty sure garrett was the supplier for the old fp30 turbine housings as well as the original tial turbine housings.

Anyways, it would help if you posted a lug line of your current setup (boost versus airflow) so I could plot it on some compressor maps.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll keep that in mind if I decide to go t a different manifold setup.

I probably have some logs floating around here on the forum somewhere, but I don't have one readily available. I'll see if I can dig something up.


Turbine Housing Choices (available for the Xona XR61-57S specifically...Some of the other models have fewer turbine housing options):
  • TiAL V-Band Inlet / V-Band Outlet .63 A/R External Wastegate
  • TiAL V-Band Inlet / V-Band Outlet .82 A/R External Wastegate
  • TiAL V-Band Inlet / V-Band Outlet 1.03 A/R External Wastegate
  • TiAL V-Band Inlet / V-Band Outlet .62 A/R Internal Wastegate
  • TiAL V-Band Inlet / V-Band Outlet .80 A/R Internal Wastegate
  • T3 Inlet / V-Band Outlet .63 A/R External Wastegate
  • T3 Inlet / V-Band Outlet .82 A/R External Wastegate
  • T3 Inlet / V-Band Outlet 1.06 A/R External Wastegate
  • T3 Inlet / V-Band Outlet 1.21 A/R External Wastegate

@JusMX141 can you bail me out with a turbine housing suggestion?
 

Vegas Smith

Proven Member
4,334
2,160
Dec 2, 2002
Houston, Texas
I believe the older xona supercores could fit but not the new "S" series with the UHF turbine ones. At least that's what it seems. Also, if you're looking to go all the way with the setup and go tubular/custom parts then Morrison Fab may be able to cut you a great deal on the turbo portion if you get it through them.
 

GST with PSI

DSM Wiseman
2,671
1,378
Jul 27, 2005
San Diego, California
Also, if you're looking to go all the way with the setup and go tubular/custom parts then Morrison Fab may be able to cut you a great deal on the turbo portion if you get it through them.

@MorrisonFab that true? In for thoughts on a package deal on a super spool setup for the Galant :hmm:
 

GST with PSI

DSM Wiseman
2,671
1,378
Jul 27, 2005
San Diego, California
Well, I think I've made the decision to go TiAL V-band just due to the overwhelming amount of turbine housing options available, and also, the lack of bolts.

The harder part now, however, is deciding on the turbo itself, and what turbine housing to stick it in.

The Garrett G-Series turbos @tstkl mentioned are pretty attractive. There are also a lot of Borg options out there at a nice price point. I think I'm still leaning toward a Xona, though. I'll have to do some more research and comparisons, which is difficult at the time. More to follow...
 

MorrisonFab

Supporting Vendor
237
649
May 28, 2017
Johnson Creek, Wisconsin
@MorrisonFab that true? In for thoughts on a package deal on a super spool setup for the Galant :hmm:

PM'd back!

Sorry we haven't been as regular recently but thankful to be so busy with everyone's orders :)

Yes, we are a dealer for FP/Xona and happy to put together some package prices with manifold/hot parts/turbo.

Appreciate the mention, @Vegas Smith and love seeing your updates!
 
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