Why non EPROM ECU can't run DSMLink?

[jeepzj94]

Is it because even if you socket and chip a non EPROM ECU, the ECU cannot accept/run any type of new programming other than factory settings, and the EPROM ECU has the ability to? Or can you not even socket a non EPROM ECU??

 

[greddyturbo19]

uhh dude you can get your ECU installed with dsm link chip and socketed. go to DSMLink Homepage for price and info

 

[snowborder714]

Is it because even if you socket and chip a non eprom ecu, the ECU cannot accept/run any type of new programming other than factory settings, and the eprom ecu has the ability to?? Or can you not even socket a non eprom ecu??

You can't socket a non-factory EPROM ECU because the circuit board isn't built for it.

 

[jeepzj94]

Yes, I realize that, but I was under the impression that ONLY an EPROM ECU could be socketed and have DSMLink installed? Is this not true?

 

[Supa Dexta]

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Technically a non EPROM ECU can be converted, but it's a lot of work. The easier option is to find an EPROM ECU and have it socketed to accept the DSMLink chip. I'm not sure what the guys at link offer. Even a non turbo board can be converted, it needs a knock board added, etc. I've actually been supplying a few ECU's for them to use for parts to build the proper ECU's,

 

[greddyturbo19]

You can't socket a non-factory EPROM ECU because the circuit board isn't built for it.

Really? Well I have a 97gst and I got it converted with an EPROM installed on it and had to get the chip installed on it too and all that stuff. Maybe I am talking about the wrong thing.

 

[1992awdlaser]

It is because you can't socket a non EPROM ECU.

 

[jeepzj94]

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Technically a non eprom ecu can be converted, but it's a lot of work. The easier option is to find an eprom ecu and have it socketed to accept the dsm link chip. I'm not sure what the guys at link offer. Even a non turbo board can be conveted, it needs a knock board added..etc. I've actually been supplying a few ecu's for them to use for parts to build the proper ecu's,

Perfect man, thanks for those pics. Thats Exactly what I was looking for!!!

 

[jeepzj94]

Now I just gotta pull mine out tomorrow and open it to see if it is EPROM or not. I snagged my turbo ECU from a 91 so hopefully it is. That will be helpful in saving me some $$

 

[Supa Dexta]

Check the DSMLink FAQ to see what it says, it explains what to look for and what numbers are generally EPROMs. But a visual check is always the best. That is where those pics are from^

 

[jeepzj94]

Ok, I will definately check that out! Thanks!

 

[jumpfroggy]

Perfect man, thanks for those pics. Thats Exactly what I was looking for!!!

Another way to look at it is this; non-EEPROM ECU's either have everything "built-in" including settings and the software the run the car, while EEPROM ECU's use an EEPROM chip to hold the settings and software (gross simplification).

DSMlink is a modified software on a replacement EEPROM.

Socketing means removing (unsoldering) the hardwired stock EEPROM from an EEPROM ECU, and putting a socket there so EEPROM's can be installed/removed easily.

So you get an EEPROM ECU, "socket" it (remove stock EEPROM, install socket, install stock EEPROM back optionally). Then buy DSMlink, where they ship you an EEPROM with the DSMLink program on it. Remove stock EEPROM and replace with DSMLink EEPROM, and you've got DSMLink running.

With a non-EEPROM ECU, you're missing the main ingredient (the EEPROM and wiring to use the EEPROM). You may be able to socket it with lots of work, but that would be (I think) beyond most of us.

Hope that helps.

 

[EclipseTuner31]

Then buy DSMLink, where they ship you an EEPROM with the DSMLink program on it. Remove stock EEPROM and replace with DSMLink EEPROM, and you've got DSMLink running.

I just want to know whats so good about a DSMLink and why bother to have it?

What is its purpose? And how is it beneficial to improving your 2G DSM?

Sorry I don't know anything about DSMLink or EPROMs, but after reading this post I understand about the ECU EPROMS now, but don't understand about the DSMLink.

Also, why did they discontinue manufacture on the chip if so many people want it?

 

[jumpfroggy]

I just want to know
Whats so good about a DSMlink? and why bother to have it?
What is its purpose? And how is it beneficial to improving your 2G DSM?
Also, why did they discontinue manufacture on the chip if so many people want it?

I'll try to answer these, hopefully others will fill in anything I've missed. First, the original purpose of the EEPROM is to store settings for the car, mainly (in our case) the Air/Fuel (A/F) mixes. If you press halfway on the gas pedal and you've got a certain amount of air coming in, the EEPROM tells the car how much gas to throw in so everything works right. Many electronic products undergo revisions, where they start out with something that works, and every once in a while they'll refine it. EEPROMS are like replaceable programs; if you replace the EEEPROM with another chip, you can replace the whole program. If you don't have an EEPROM, then all the settings are built-in to the ECU and you can't easily change it.

So for the 95 model (which was the first year for the 2nd gen dsm), they had an EEPROM. Likely once they had all the settings figured out and were comfortable they weren't going to have to change anything, they replaced the EEPROM with built-in settings. Cheaper, more reliable, simpler, but not as easily changed. This is good for the stock user, but not for us.

We want to take those easily changed EEPROM ECU's and replace the stock EEPROM with our customized version. DSMlink is a custom EEPROM that allows you to modify the air/fuel settings with your laptop. If you add a big turbo, or bigger injectors, etc, then the stock A/F settings are off and will need to be changed. A dsmlink allows you to do this. It also allows you to change other settings (Spark advance, etc).

So think of EEPROM as a more easily hackable ECU, and dsmlink as a user-controllable EEPROM. You can also get pre-programmed EEPROMS which are cheaper than dsmlink, include customized settings, but are not user-changeable. DSMlink is one step below a fully programmable ECU like the AEM, which is a complete replacement ECU.

Last, why did "they" stop making the EEPROM versions if so many people want them? First, "they" = DSM, and "so many people" is a tiny fraction of the amount of DSM customers, and the timing is such that the cars were produced in 95 and weren't popular for ECU hacking until later. At any rate, car manufacturers rarely cater to niche racing crowds, especially on non-specialty models. If you have a Nissan 350z with huge tuning support from the manufacturer plus tons of aftermarket, then Nissan may continue to make racing-friendly parts. If you have a company like DSM that only existed for a short amount of time, never really had any official tuning support, and is now pretty much a dead brand, then you're more out of luck. The time will come, I'm sure, when OEM EEPROM ECUs will be very rare indeed. Then we'll all be guarding our garages with shotguns

Hopefully that wasn't too confusing. Let me know if you still have questions, and I can try to post the shorter version.

 

[EclipseTuner31]

that basically ansered all my questions, thankyou!

 

[steve]

It's not EEPROM, none of the ECUs came with EEPROM, it was an EPROM.

Minor difference but an EEPROM is an electrical erasable programmable read only memory and the 27128, 27256, 27512 chips used in DSM ECUs are UV EPROMS. You have to expose the quartz window (under the label) to UV light to erase the programming.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's, the chips were either mask programmed (they make the transistors for the ones and zeros of the software at the same time as they are making the ones for the processor gates) or fuse based ROM. Once you had good software, including the EPA approved fuel and timing maps you could send the bit to the factory and they would start making chips. Then 8 to 12 weeks later you would see parts and it everything was good you could start making ECUs with them.

Since the production couldn't something like wait 8-12 weeks for custom CPUs they would use a circuit that ran the software from an external chip (the EPROM) that they could program in bulk and ship cars. The down side was those ECUs were at least $10 more in raw parts and may have been several hundred $ more each actual cost. If you making a million cars that some real money, so as soon as you can you switch to the cheaper part.

It wasn't until 98 or so that the ECUs started getting flash memory (a type of EEPROM) in the processors allowing the factory and their service arms to update the programming at the plant or in the field.