Who all builds the Big T-28?

[pboglio]

^^^Yeah, you I guess if you just bought it the novelty is still fairly new. I ran one for 8 years and pulled 40 lb/min out of one on a bone chilling day, and right around 350 w.h.p. (dsmlink estimated). A clip might not be a bad idea, the turbine backpressure can really rob engine power when trying to run boost levels above 25 psi. Overall, not worth it in my opinion unless your trying to set a record.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Well, I just don't see the fun in it if I'm not trying to set a record. Have to have SOME kinda goal to work towards ya know? I know most people do supporting mods and maybe overdo it and plan to move up a size turbo. I mean really, who TOTALLY builds cars on small turbos and plans to keep it a small turbo???

I'll eventually upgrade but it'll be a long time. Kinda like Kiggly with his 16g that ran really good times. Everyone's always good at saying this can't be done and that can't be done. And someone always comes along to knock them off their high horse ya know? Just like the V8 guys who underestimate us Dsm'ers. I got outta the scene for a bit and bought a Mustang but it wasn't any fun cause everyone EXPECTED me to be fast....even though it wasn't. I love to be underestimated and prove people wrong. This turbo would be no exception.

As far as clipping it goes, I guess I'll have to research the issue on that or talk to some really knowledgeable people on that issue before I make any stupid decisions. Turbo is suppose to be here on Monday. Can't wait. Wondering if it'd be okay to run on stock injectors, stock pump, and low boost levels until I can upgrade those goodies. Hmmm....

 

[donniekak]

You should listen to pboglio. I had a big t28 on a fully setup car. The car was setup to max out a large turbo, gt35r, hx40. Using an external wastegate set to not open on e85, the t28 was not as good of a performer as a evo3 on my talon with stock exhaust, stock cams, stock intercooler, stock everything, except pump, injectors and a chip, on e85 at 25 psi.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Not saying I'll be able to break all the rules and do things that others haven't been able to succeed with, but I'll for damn sure give it my best shot.

 

[donniekak]

Not saying I'll be able to break all the rules and do things that others haven't been able to succeed with, but I'll for damn sure give it my best shot.

I'm not downing the t28, or you for wanting to run it. Just saying it's not a tear up the strip turbo. When i had one on my vr4 it was a very fun street setup. It was almost like not having a turbo 4 cylinder, but a small v8. That thing spooled super fast.

 

[saechao04]

I agree, listen to pboglio, 40 lbs/min on the T28 is pretty damn good in my opinion. Everyone's always downing the T28, but I think it's a pretty good turbo. Hopefully E85 will help me out, plus I will have English racing tune my car, which I think will help a great deal. I will eventually run a bigger turbo but I want to see what the T28 can do for me right now. Especially when I got it for $200.00 with the upgraded actuator. Still running strong =D

 

[v8s_are_slow]

You should listen to pboglio. I had a big t28 on a fully setup car. The car was setup to max out a large turbo, gt35r, hx40. Using an external wastegate set to not open on e85, the t28 was not as good of a performer as a evo3 on my talon with stock exhaust, stock cams, stock intercooler, stock everything, except pump, injectors and a chip, on e85 at 25 psi.

When you say it was a "fully setup car", what kinda mods are you talking about here? The mod list I have in mind usually tends to differ A LOT compared to what every other dsm'er on the block normally goes with. So just wondering.

Also wondering what kinda mods you guys are usually going with to "max" out the flow of these turbos as well. In all the threads I've looked thru on these turbos I don't really see many people going BIG on the mods. Just your basic stuff to support it. Pump and injectors, maybe a catback, lowering springs, etc.

 

[pboglio]

If you are going to run it hard, keep the boost at about 25 psi in the midrange at most. That'll make by far the most torque. Any more boost and the turbine section chokes off and you'll lose significant torque. If ever a clip could help a turbo it would definitely be on a T28, though I don't recommend it since counter to popular lore, they never were the quickest spooling turbos despite all the hype FP put out there.

I think a car with some big ass cams might pull 360-370 w.h.p. out of one, if the weather were right and maybe some E85.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

The thing to keep in mind is that everyone is thinking along the same lines of the max flow and the max horsepower that can be achieved. Remember there's other things to keep in mind as well. How fast does it rev, how light are the internals, how light is the car, how much back pressure in the exhaust, how much rotating weight can be taken off, how cold can the intake air be, what kind of clutch is being used, etc. Even if a max horsepower is reached, there's other things to be considered to try and make it go down the track a little bit faster.

 

[pboglio]

If your looking to get "x" time down the drag strip, then yes you can achieve it. There are guys deep into the 11's with a 14b. A T28 can "almost" reach an 11 on a full weight car with a reasonable amount of mods. Would take some insane tuning, big monster cams, but it could be done full weight. FP's T28 equipped shop car had an unusually high trap speed considering it was full weight. Noone has ever duplicated that 118-119 mph withone that I've ever seen documented, not without stripping weight out.

That kind of mph would take about 430-440 h.p. at the crank. The best I've ever done is about 404 h.p. at the crank (dsmlink estimated). That was with HKS 264 cams and no MAS sensor restricting the turbo among other things and driving the car in a blizzard. Maybe a set of cams like the FP4R or Kelford 272's would have opened up the topend somemore, don't know. That's what I'm doing with the EVO3 16g since its proven to be a much better turbo anyways.

 

[donniekak]

When you say it was a "fully setup car", what kinda mods are you talking about here? The mod list I have in mind usually tends to differ A LOT compared to what every other dsm'er on the block normally goes with. So just wondering.

Also wondering what kinda mods you guys are usually going with to "max" out the flow of these turbos as well. In all the threads I've looked thru on these turbos I don't really see many people going BIG on the mods. Just your basic stuff to support it. Pump and injectors, maybe a catback, lowering springs, etc.

The car had a full aftermarket fuel setup from the tank to rail with the stock feed as a return, 3" exhaust with a 3" o2 housing, ets front mount kit, maft in blow through, smim, 272's, aftermarket cast exhaust manifold with an external turbosmart ultragate 38, And a lot of other mods that aren't really important for this discussion. I had a ton of different turbo's on that setup. The t28 was better than a 14b, but not even close to the evo3, as i said before, about the same performance as a small 16g. I know it's a lighter car, but my talon only has a evo3, 2g maf, 850's, a 255, and my custom chip tuning on e85, and it is faster than the galant with a t28.
For 2g guy's coming from the t25, it's a great upgrade. I like the t28, it's a fun turbo. It's just not a very good drag strip turbo, unless you want to gut the car.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Okay, I'll give an idea of what I've been wanting to do for a good while now. My mod "wish" list hasn't changed much at all, just the turbo.

Groden aluminum rods, Mahle pistons, balance shaft delete kit, and Butcher crank for the bottom end (want a light weight rotating assembly). Fuel mods that'll support it of course...which is a given. Aluminum driveshaft. It's fwd right now but have all the parts to do the swap including a stock shaft but I want aluminum. 3rd Gen RX-7 wheels since they're so light. Water/air intercooler setup with an icebox in the rear and a huge heat exchanger in the front. SMIM (but still debating on which one). Dsmlink and a few other things.

Sure this stuff has gotta have some big advantages over the usual stuff that people throw on everyday.

 

[donniekak]

For the money you would spend on the rods and pistons, you could buy a turbo capable of at least 300 more horsepower.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Of course. But the goal is to set records. Lol. That, and move up eventually after doing so.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Seized, stripped, and broken bolts REALLY kicked my ass trying to get it installed last night but it's in. Took it for a spin around the block and back and didn't really feel much of a difference. But then again, I'm all stock down to the 2g bov. Except for the K&N filter and stock exhaust that I hacked off behind the cat....and gutted the cat. Guess maybe it'll wake up a smidge when I crank the boost and start tuning, etc. Sigh.....I'm sore as hell today.

 

[jjrock5]

And you said you had a T25? Looks like you need supporting mods man. I like this turbo, definitely fun.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Yeah, I plan on getting them in there. Have a boost and fuel pressure gauge. Need to throw them in there. I have previously hooked up a boost gauge to see what I was running and it was only about 15 psi. I just haven't wanted to install my gauges though until I had all of the gauges I wanted to buy (ie: boost, fuel pressure, wideband, etc. and plan to replace all the dash gauges as well so it's a full matching set) but I may need to at least get the boost and fuel pressure gauge in there for the time being. I don't wanna free up the exhaust flow or upgrade the bov and all until I can upgrade the fuel and get a wideband, and get Dsmlink or Eculink.

I'll say I can feel it a bit more on the top end compared to the T-25 but the bottom end feels about the same. Car is still WAAAAAY too slow for me right now though in comparison to what I'm use to. I'm aching for mods bad!!!

 

[UofACATS]

it'll wake up when I crank the boost

Exactly.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Anyone know if the stock T-25 turbine housing will bolt right up to the T-28? Since I have the T-25 layin around now, I figured I'd go ahead and port it as well as get the broken bolts out of it as well. Then pull the T-28 off and swap the housings so the car won't be down for any length of time.

Didn't know if the blades for the turbine side on the T-28 would hit the inside of the housing of the T-25 and don't wanna waste my time if it won't work.

 

[JusMX141]

Anyone know if the stock T-25 turbine housing will bolt right up to the T-28?

Nope.

If you held the two turbos in your hand you'd see why. A T25 turbine is "o" while a T28's is "O"

 

[pboglio]

Yeah, not gonna happen, completely different turbine section. I ran the 79 trim turbine wheel which had 10 blades and a nice small clip already cast into the wheel compared to say the TD05H wheels, as well as a nice aerofoil shape. The turbine section he has is the "relatively newer" 76 trim with a smaller exducer but 9 blades found on all FP Big28's.

Looking at it I don't see how you could gain from clipping it and not sure if it would even be a good idea on a wheel with such a design. Mine had 1 more blade and I have no doubt I would have pulled more h.p. with the freer flowing 76 trim turbine wheel vs. my 79 trim. As far as I know, this was the only difference between the original FP T2828 and the FP Big28 which is what is shown here. People running back to back turbo's claimed an extra +10-20 h.p. on the topend from the difference. So, my guess is that little Big28 turbo might be worth 415-425 h.p. at the crank if it was dialed out.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Alright, thanks for the info. Note to self. Don't waste time with T-25 turbine housing. Didn't have much time for comparing cause I was trying to get the sucker in before it got too dark. Although I failed at that. #@%#^$!!!!

 

[pnishr]

don't go trying to break the record, that's mine to defeat. Only got another 16hp to go... (332whp/345wtq)

As far as I know, the record (that's been recorded via actual dyno) is Dennis Grant at 348/376.

Unfortunately, my battery died (lost my tune on V2) and my laptop took a 5hit (so, no saved tune)....

My crank was garbage anyway, so when I get around to finding all my tools (and the time to do the work) I'm building a 9.5:1 stroker. Hoping for 400ft-lbs+ at the wheels. (420 would make me happy) and 360-375whp. Race you to the finish for it???

Considering using an external WG to hold the boost better (like tial 38/44mm), plus then I'd have one after I break the record and switch to a real turbo like an FP 3582hta

 

[jjrock5]

Anybody know who's car FP says went 11s with their T28 on a full weight 2g awd? That should be high in hp numbers.

 

[pnishr]

I don't know who it was. Nobody who's currently still in the DSM scene down here. (I'm located near FP)