Which Turbo Should I Get [merged] What Turbo

[Ludachris]

Which turbo will be sufficient for consistent 11 second times? I've recently decided on a big 16g, but will that be big enough to run 11s with supporting mods and decent tuning? Remember, this is for a budget street car, so any one purchase over $1k is tough. A big 16g will run about $700-900, which is about $300-400 less than the larger alternatives.

Of course, I'll need lots of practice to run these times, but, I just want to make sure that it's possible before the money is spent.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

OP, if you want ultimate spoolability for your 2.3, get a FP dsm76 HTA and call it done. You'll probably hit 20psi by 3600ish, not to mention a compressor wheel that can handle MUCH higher pressure ratios. Pretty much the exact same amount of flow as the HX35, but much faster spool, and respool will be much quicker too.

This little guy

Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP HTA DSM76 Ball Bearing Turbocharger

 

[deflator]

the answer is not FP turbos anymore.

S400
specials turbo dallas majestic turbo dallas

585$ WTF

Great deal...if I had a V8

1.32 AR, 98lbs/min


...and spools at 8k?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Does this go for the -40 as well? I've read some things about weak shafts in the early ones. If it didn't need a rebuilt, that would rock

The Holset turbos are designed for turbo diesel trucks. They are made to take a beating on high boost.

The HX35 and HX40 are both the same journal ball bearing design i.e. gt35r and gt40r double ball bearings. Besides if it needed rebuilding it would cost less then a new one anyways at the price you can get used for.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Don't negate the fact that ball bearings can take far much more abuse than journal bearing turbos and don't "wear". If you're dumb though, when they fail, they fail.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Why not look into a 50-trim?

 

[T9S1i]

Borg warner or holset
/thread


Really though. anything from a s256-s258 or -35 or -40 will hit your goal reliably with the peace of mind of being able to rebuild if something does ever happen. The question is do you want room to play with, or do you want fast spool. You could always get the smaller turbo (256 or -35) and go with a t3 .70 housing and get the smaller turbo with more top end. Or go twinscroll t3 on the bigger turbos, and have the flow and the spool!

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Borg warner or holset
/thread


Really though. anything from a s256-s258 or -35 or -40 will hit your goal reliably with the peace of mind of being able to rebuild if something does ever happen. The question is do you want room to play with, or do you want fast spool.

Unless you injest something on a ball bearing turbo (ie. spark plug tip), while using proper lubrication (and filtration), there should never be a failure in a ball bearing turbocharger.

Show me a Holset turbo that can produce + intake manifold pressure in a 5L plenum and 3" charge piping at 2k rpms, can hit 20 psi by 4200rpms, and produce 75lbs/min of airflow on our engines.

Simply put, there is no Holset that can meet all those qualifications. You get what you pay for.

If you want fast spool, fast respool (neglecting NLTS for us street car drivers), and a decent low end torque curve, spend the money and get a turbo with a light rotating assembly, in a bearing setup that provides the least friction possible. Unfortunately, all these characteristics, are encompassed in only 1 line of turbochargers, and yes, they know it, and do charge for it.

 

[JusMX141]

So very true, Andrew.

However the GT35R doesn't apply to either of the O.P.'s requirements of both price and DSM bolt-on capability, so it can pretty much be thrown out as a possible option.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

I was only referencing my turbo as a nullification of the borg/holset > all retarded statement. The HTA DSM76 turbocharger from FP will probably be the best suitable turbocharger for his needs, if he has the funds for it and the proper accessory setup.

Spool of an 18g/20g with the power potential of a 60-1.

 

[T9S1i]

I didnt say they are greater than all, i said borg warner or holset end of thread...
Keep flaming and saying my post was retarded... thats great.
All your advice is off topic because you are telling him to get something out of his price range that he stated. Why dont you read the first post, and the requirements that he set for the turbo, then offer some suggestions rather than saying " i run a hta35r and its the best ever so you should too"

 

[Boosted98gsx]

, a $1000 budget for a turbo setup to get him in the low 11's under 30psi??!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wow, that's rich.

 

[T9S1i]

, a $1000 budget for a turbo setup to get him in the low 11's under 30psi??!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wow, that's rich.

I agree, he's asking for it all... Rediculously fast spool, 500whp, cheap, reliable, mitsu bolt on.

Its hard to get that all wrapped up in one package. If you get rid of one of them then he can probably get them all (get rid of the budget haha!).
Its like the old saying... fast, reliable, cheap... you can only pick two of the above, but never all 3 at once.

I think his best bet would be a holset for the budget.
Does that budget include the fp manifold, o2 housing, and the wastegate?

If there was no budget, i dont see why all of us wouldnt have a hta 35r... Its a damn fine turbo, but not everyone can afford one, and not everyone needs one.


To the OP, if you want a turbo to spool quickly for the extra low end power, dont worry about it. you've got .3 extra displacement so you are going to have a lot more pep from stoplight to stoplight.
If you want something that will have great top end and put down good 1/4 mile times, then dont worry about the low end.
Im running a BW s258 and i love it. Ive got the t3 .70 housing and the car is still damn quick around town and if I need to go really fast then i push the pedal down past 1/4 haha

If you want more info on my setup pm me, otherwise i think ive added all the positive i can to this thread. Good luck with your choice. you'll probably be happy whatever you do.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Show me a Holset turbo that can produce + intake manifold pressure in a 5L plenum and 3" charge piping at 2k rpms, can hit 20 psi by 4200rpms, and produce 75lbs/min of airflow on our engines.

Simply put, there is no Holset that can meet all those qualifications. You get what you pay for.

A Holset HX52 that flows 88 lbs/mins can give a GT35R HTA a run spool-wise and will eventually blow right past it. It beats the hell out of the HTA turbos price-wise and to doesn't lack in performance either. I picked mine up for $600 whereas the HTA runs about $1800.

I'm not saying that the HTA aren't good turbo and lack reliability, but the OP has a budget of a $1000 and the best way to go is Holset which lack neither quality nor performance it's capable of. Holset is straight out the best bang for the buck!

 

[Boosted98gsx]

A Holset HX52 that flows 88 lbs/mins can give a GT35R HTA a run spool wise and will eventually blow right past it.

It beats the hell out of the HTA turbos price-wise and to doesn't lack in performance either. I picked mine up for $600 whereas the HTA run about $1800.

It's amazing whenever someone has some kind of inkling that they have a standing argument they always "accidentally" leave out important factors...

[/facepalm] Yay, it can make 88lbs / min, and spools where? Positive pressure above 3.5k and 20 psi at 5.5-6k rpms? Sry dood, we're talking streetable turbos here. Something that makes some kind of usable torque below the 3k range.

Post a log. Show me numbers, not guesstimate "blowing it out your butt" assumptions please.

Show me an HX52 that produces 5 psi before 3k (and I'm talking with a log of a full 3rd gear pull), in a .82 a/r turbine or larger, on pump gas and air.

And which GT35r HTA variant are we talking about? I hope not the 86hta, because that compressor wheel would make you cry.

Basically, simply put, there is NO journal bearing turbo, that can flow the same as, and spool as fast as or faster than one of the FP HTA BB turbochargers.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

It's all basic physics guys, if you lower rotational mass, and decrease friction, you will get faster spool. There is no "magic" spool rate increaser in terms of the basic geometry of a turbocharger that wont hinder top end flow. Everything is a double edged sword in the world of physics. If you want something, you lose it somewhere else.

FP making their billet compressor wheels have made a bad assed turbocharger, but again, the hindrance is price. If you want something that's the latest and greatest, you pay for it, and I STRONGLY recommend you do. There is nothing on the market than can spool as fast, produce as much airflow, and have the strength equal to or better than one of the FP ball bearing turbochargers with the HTA wheel.

I'm getting damned tired beating a dead horse against the holset nutriders. It's your ebay turbocharger / ebay frontmount / every other fad that's hit the dsm market. There IS NO CHEAP MAGIC CURE ALL FOR MAKING POWER!

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Hits 15 psi. by 4200 rpm on a nonstroker motor so it's definitely streetable and I have yet to see logs on HTA35 or the HTA76.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Hits 15 psi. by 4200 rpm on a nonstroker motor so it's definitely streetable and I have yet to see logs on HTA35 or the HTA76.

With what sized turbine housing?

You talk of 'blowing it out your butt' but have you ran HX52 to know when it spools?

I'm not advocating them now am I? I have named spool times on my HTA with my engine, and am damned proud of them.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

I'd have to agree with Boosted98GSX on this one. If the OP wants 500whp on E85 that is streetable both spool wise and longevity wise, I'd go with a FP 35RHTA. You could probably also hit 500whp with the FP 30RHTA but maybe not at the boost levels the OP plans on running. And if you are worried about spooling up any turbo, just add some timing pre spool up and lower it on spool up. It'll get you there faster and provide great drivability. Just be careful because I know strokers don't really like timing all that much. As for price wise, it's really up to you. All of the mentioned turbos are quality long lasting turbos so its really up to you. But for a bolt on housing, for me it's FP all the way.

 

[rush2252]

Might want to talk with DSMJIM he is running a t3/t4 turbo on pump at 12.56 right now @20 psi. Its a sweet setup and I've had the priviledge to ride in it and was very impressed, impressed enough to order one about 3 days later!

BTW Im AWD but automatic trans for the time being I have a 5 speed donor car ready to swap and I run the translab shift kit and alto end clutch and its a HUGE improvement over stock.

why is everybody so quick to jump the autos. Go to the IFO website and look for a guy out of MidWestCity OK named Darren He runs a 1g auto awd built by Abel Racing out of MWC its beats

Here is the clip from IFO.. he was the points leader in 2008 running yes and AUTO

2008 RACE POINTS WINNER: Darren Thomas is 22 years old and from Choctaw, Oklahoma. He has been Racing the local IFOs since 2003 but only in 2008 decided to follow the circuit. Best time to date is 9.96 @138 mph with 565 Horsepower. Crew consists of Darren Thomas SR (dad), Kevin "Garth" Black (friend), and Giovannia Gonzalez (girlfriend). Darren ended the 2008 points chase with 130 points, almost twice as many as the runner up points finisher! Darren wants to thank ABEL Racing Inc. in Oklahoma City for everything, Todd Tilden at T&T Industries in OKC for all the Head and Block work, Napa Auto Parts, and AAR CORP - my work, for letting me off to travel to all the IFOs!

Oh yeh hes pushing 600 now and still running stock block heres a link on youtube against bushcur racing evo 8 He ran 10.1 @136mph
YouTube - Abel Racing Eclipse GSX vs Buschur Racing Evo 8

 

[deflator]

, a $1000 budget for a turbo setup to get him in the low 11's under 30psi??!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wow, that's rich.

I get what you are saying and the derision isn't necessary. These are optimistic goals, just something I want to come close to. It's $1k just for the turbo, not the whole setup, and 430-480whp goal. I can't see spending over $1k for a turbo, but any of the ones I listed could be had for that if purchased second-hand. You're advocating the latest and greatest to someone who stated budget was the major factor. Thanks anyway.

To the OP, if you want a turbo to spool quickly for the extra low end power, dont worry about it. you've got .3 extra displacement so you are going to have a lot more pep from stoplight to stoplight.
If you want something that will have great top end and put down good 1/4 mile times, then dont worry about the low end.
Im running a BW s258 and i love it. Ive got the t3 .70 housing and the car is still damn quick around town and if I need to go really fast then i push the pedal down past 1/4 haha

If you want more info on my setup pm me, otherwise i think ive added all the positive i can to this thread. Good luck with your choice. you'll probably be happy whatever you do.

If I can afford it I think that I will go s256 and change to a larger housing later if I want it. If I can't then I think It's HX-35 all the way.

Thanks for the input guys

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

With evo 3 16gs making 400+, I dont see why a 20g couldnt get you to 430-480.

 

[destruckeclipse]

50 trims make 450 all day without going to 30 psi as well as spooling before 4k on a 2.0 in non ball bearing form on pump gas. They are cheap, spool damn fast, bolt on, and reliable. Add to that you have a 2.3 which would help the spool too, and you got a great setup. There would be little to no room for improvement, but if you did want to move up it would probably cost you a bit more for all the goodies that come along with buying a big turbo (like with big bolt on fp turbos new o2, downpipe connection, wastegate) that would put you well beyond $1k price tag.

The only downside to holset turbos is with all the results we have seen this far it seems you would need massive boost (30psi+) to get the numbers the holset turbos claim, which makes them unattractive to most everyday street cars with stock, or near stock motors not wanting to push that much boost on their daily.

 

[gstryyder]

why don't you run a evo3 16g? they can get u where u want to be on E85...

 

[kahl23]

why don't you run a evo3 16g? they can get u where u want to be on E85...

The OP wants between 430 and 480 horse right now, with the possibility of just under 500 horse in the future, for him, that probably is just not going to happen. Notice how I said, "for him"? Just because one member on here who has more experience with these cars than pretty much anybody else on this site has done it does not mean that anyone else will approach his numbers anytime soon. Honestly, find me 5 16g turbo setups that have dyno'd over 430whp (on this site there only 3 above 400, and the only one of those above 430 hp says he did it on 550cc injectors, so excuse me if I'm a bit skeptical about that) and I'll retract everything I've said. I think pretty much everyone else here can agree that the OP will be disappointed with a 16g given his goals.

 

[Wicked95AWD]

Basically, simply put, there is NO journal bearing turbo, that can flow the same as, and spool as fast as or faster than one of the FP HTA BB turbochargers.

That's a really broad statement. It would take a lot of research and side-by-side comparison to prove it and alot of evidence to defend it. All the spool times, hp numbers, and maps I have seen appear incredibly close among DSM's utilizing turbos of the same class from Borg, Holset, and Garrett.

Unless you injest something on a ball bearing turbo (ie. spark plug tip), while using proper lubrication (and filtration), there should never be a failure in a ball bearing turbocharger" ... "If you're dumb though, when they fail, they fail.

That's pretty funny, I suppose ball bearing turbo's are assembled in the north pole with rainbows and pixie dust... c'mon man. If you use ANY rotating assembly long enough, it will eventually fail. I agree that BB turbos are very reliable and they have been known to last longer than many journal bearing models, but I also specifically remember exchanging info with Twicks a few months ago about turbo setups and he mentioned that his ball bearing Garrett 4088 went kaput a while back. He also mentioned that he is currently working on swapping in a journal bearing Borg s374 turbo, but I'm sure it's because he was "dumb" and not willing to spend money on good parts (he's probably spent over 14k on transmissions alone).

There is nothing on the market than can spool as fast, produce as much airflow, and have the strength equal to or better than one of the FP ball bearing turbochargers with the HTA wheel. I'm getting damned tired beating a dead horse against the holset nutriders. It's your ebay turbocharger / ebay frontmount / every other fad that's hit the dsm market.

Wow.. who's doing the nutswinging now? I've heard great things about FP but they are not the only game in town when it comes to building premium turbo's. In fact the fastest DSM in the world (Rau) runs a Borg turbo. Your comparison of high quality turbos like Holset to cheap chinese Ebay parts is rediculous. Garrett, Holset, and Borg Warner all make awesome products. If you are on a strict budget, you can get a Holset or Borg Warner turbo with a billet wheel for less than half the price of a similar model FP HTA BB turbo and achieve nearly identical horsepower and spool numbers. Also, If you break a Borg or Holset you can rebuild it like new for around a couple hundred bucks. Garrett bb turbo's are the only way to go if you are willing to pay a premium for transient response (largely negated by NLTS) and a negligibly faster spool time (also largely negated if you use a twin-scroll t3 or t4 turbine housing and header). The major downside that prevented me from buying an FP BB HTA was the initial price along with the angst of having to shell out another $1,700+ when it breaks because they are not rebuildable. Long story short.. I am very impressed by the FP BB HTA (billet compressor) line of turbos and I may eventually buy one of them, but I don't think they are the "end-all" turbo solution you romanticize them to be.