Which is the Best LSD?? Kaaz or Quaife??

[Strm Trpr]

They dont nessacerily "lock", but power transfer is almost a perfect 50/50. I no longer have 1st gear spin. Torque steer and wheelhop are almost non-existant. And just for the record, corning is a huge improvment over an open diff..... HUGE.

-Paul-

Very cool..... I'm pretty stoked about the lack of wheel spin in 1st....
Your car is highly modded compared to mine..... I'm probably the only stk GST on this forum.....
How many pounds of boost are you running...... I can't believe you don't spin
1st gear anymore.... I can be rolling at about 20mph and nail it, and lite up
the right front almost always....

BTW the way, I really like your car, that's probably the first car that I've seen
that a park bench doesn't make the car look to ricey..... cool graphics.....

Peace,
Chris

 

[99gst_racer]

Very cool..... I'm pretty stoked about the lack of wheel spin in 1st....
Your car is highly modded compared to mine..... I'm probably the only stk GST on this forum.....
How many pounds of boost are you running...... I can't believe you don't spin
1st gear anymore.... I can be rolling at about 20mph and nail it, and lite up
the right front almost always....

BTW the way, I really like your car, that's probably the first car that I've seen
that a park bench doesn't make the car look to ricey..... cool graphics.....

Peace,
Chris

Yeah as long as I'm rolling 10+ mph, I have complete traction. I love it. Now I'm waiting for someone to give me a 50 trim. , j/j. I will be doing a 50 trim and dsmlink this winter. Thanks for the compliments Chris.

-Paul-

 

[99gst_racer]

kaaz for drag

quaife for handling.


The quaife is alot more flexible as far as grip goes, too flexible for drag. At the gate when you are doin a warm up burn out you only spin one wheel , same thing with the launch.

This is very untrue. You only spin one wheel with an open diff. The purpose of a LSD is a 50/50 power transfer. I can go outside right now and do a burnout and take a pic for proof. I'll get both wheels to slin evenly. The difference between the Quaife or Kaaz is the Quaife has a less harsh engagement and the Kaaz is more harsh. The Quaife is like the ACT 2100; it slips a little but engages smoothly and the Kaaz is like the ACT 2600; it engages fast and sometimes rough but has little to no slip. The Quaife requires a tire to slip before it forces itself to react.

At the gate, when doing a warmup burnout, when using any style LSD (even and insert, ei. Phantom grip, BM Tranny), you will get both wheels to spin with an almost perfect power transfer. This near 50/50 power transfer will also result in an optimal launch.

 

[Omega]

Just to to throw grease on the fire... I have found some fluid that pretty much eliminated any clunking that my car had. This is the third fluid that I have had in the car. First was the KAAZ "own" which I used to break it in with. That was alright, it was hit or miss with the clunks, but BLEW in the winter. I had to let the trans warm up on a really cold day before I could shift. Recently I temporarily put some plain jane Mobil 1 in there. It shifted better than with the KAAZ, but clunked like a mother. This new stuff made by Motul is great. The car shifts VERY smoothly and it clunks only in TIGHT corners with a decent load in the trans. For anyone with a KAAZ unit, I highly recomend you try this stuff. The place I got it from is in Canada and waaaaay west of me, so it took some time to get. The guy I talked to was cool and was interested in my application. The best part is I got 4 bottles for around the same price that a single KAAZ can was!

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/motuloil.html

 

[Strm Trpr]

This is very untrue. You only spin one wheel with an open diff. The purpose of a LSD is a 50/50 power transfer. I can go outside right now and do a burnout and take a pic for proof. I'll get both wheels to slin evenly. The difference between the Quaife or Kaaz is the Quaife has a less harsh engagement and the Kaaz is more harsh. The Quaife is like the ACT 2100; it slips a little but engages smoothly and the Kaaz is like the ACT 2600; it engages fast and sometimes rough but has little to no slip. The Quaife requires a tire to slip before it forces itself to react.

At the gate, when doing a warmup burnout, when using any style LSD (even and insert, ei. Phantom grip, BM Tranny), you will get both wheels to spin with an almost perfect power transfer. This near 50/50 power transfer will also result in an optimal launch.

Hey Paul, thanks for all of your input....
I'm more into road racing on a circuit, not drag racing.....
I'm sold on a Quaife.....

Peace,
Chris

 

[eclipseyou]

Now all we need is for someone with a KaaZ to go dirve your car, and you need to drive his. That way we can have a decent comparrison. ( SRT4 Quiaf guy: take note )

there was a guy with an 2004 srt4 who was doin some burnouts after the car show in indianapolis this weekend. well it all exploded the quife the bell housing pieces everywhere....I got a suvanier....


but he was since it only had 9k on it.

 

[flinguist]

there was a guy with an 2004 srt4 who was doin some burnouts after the car show in indianapolis this weekend. well it all exploded the quife the bell housing pieces everywhere....I got a suvanier....


but he was since it only had 9k on it.

If he didn't mod it, it should still be under warranty.

 

[99gst_racer]

there was a guy with an 2004 srt4 who was doin some burnouts after the car show in indianapolis this weekend. well it all exploded the quife the bell housing pieces everywhere....I got a suvanier....


but he was since it only had 9k on it.

Are you sure it wasnt the flywheel that exploded?? I've never heard of the Quaife casing being penetrated on a Quaife front diff. before. The reason I ask this is because the diff. in not within the bellhousing; The flywheel and clutch are. Most usually, when a flywheel explodes, you will get chrapnel from the flywheel and the bellhousing. When a front diff. explodes, many times everything stays intact, but many times all that is afected is the diff. itself and the tranny.......

 

[Strm Trpr]

Are you sure it wasnt the flywheel that exploded?? I've never heard of the Quaife casing being penetrated on a Quaife front diff. before. The reason I ask this is because the diff. in not within the bellhousing; The flywheel and clutch are. Most usually, when a flywheel explodes, you will get chrapnel from the flywheel and the bellhousing. When a front diff. explodes, many times everything stays intact, but many times all that is afected is the diff. itself and the tranny.......

I agree with you 99gst_racer.....
Even if the Quaife exploded, I would never just sit there and fry the tires like that.... out of respect for my car getting me to work everyday....
Plus if I broke something F***ing around like that, my wife would have my nuts in a vise.... Serves him right.....

 

[flinguist]

I was gonna get a Quaife until I read this. It seems they will fail eventually if, more likely, when you abuse them.http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75413&highlight=quaife+pics

 

[99gst_racer]

I was gonna get a Quaife until I read this. It seems they will fail eventually if, more likely, when you abuse them.http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75413&highlight=quaife+pics

dude, pay attention. In that link, they are talking about the center diff. for an AWD car. Center diffs have been known to explode or not last long. On the other hand, this thread is about the front diffs. Like what me and you have in our FWD cars. Quaife's front diff. has never been know to explode or frequently fail. Quaife;s front diffs are much much stronger and durrable that a stock one. Mine has been awesome so far. And, anything on an automobile will eventually fail when you abuse them. If you are afraid of breaking parts, then you shouldn't own a DSM.

 

[flinguist]

Why would the front diffs. be manufactured any differently? I just don't want to spend a lot of money on something that's not reliable, and there are instances of these things coming apart. I also didn't like Quaife's "oh well" response.

 

[pneumo]

Why would the front diffs. be manufactured any differently?

Front and center diffs are made differently due to their size. The front diff is bigger than the center diff. If you read the post you quoted you would see that Jon at TRE talks about gear backlash and tooth breakage on the Quaife diff. That's because the gear is integrated with the center diff. It's a one-piece design.

The front diff has it's gear bolted onto it. When you install a Quaife front diff you unbolt the stock gear and bolt it onto the Quaife, so there's no compatibility issues. The gear teeth are already bedded in with the gear on the output shaft, and backlash remains unchanged.

I just don't want to spend a lot of money on something that's not reliable, and there are instances of these things coming apart.

No there aren't. Did you read 99gst-racer's reply? The failures happen to the center diff, not the front diff.

 

[flinguist]

Thanks for enlightening me.

 

[DSM Storm]

I know this is an old post but I just installed a tranny that I finished rebuilding this weekend and it just so happens to have a KAAZ differential installed in it so I will post my opinions on it. To start off, I would like to mention that I have installed quite a few different differentials in different vehicles. In the past, I have installed mainly some detroit differentials such as the tru-trac and the ever so popular ez-locker. I have never had the oppertunity to tinker with the clutch type differentials.

I installed the tranny with a factory viscous coupler and kept my VCE aside to perform break-in. As I took the talon out of the bay and took it around the block I can remember saying..."Phuq, this thing is an animal" the kaaz is really really agressive at first. All kinds of clunking during decel and low speed turning. It immediatly reminded me of a detroit ez-locker. I spent about 15 minutes at the shop doing some figure 8's. Today I took the car out to a few parking lots in the local industrial area. I do have to admit after about the 15 minutes of break-in that I gave it today, it became noticable quieter. Under accel, this thing locks almost instantly. I can still feel it disengage during turning. However I will admit that I am extremely happy with the differential. I plan to rebuild the rear axle assembly soon and will install a KAAZ in the rear as well. I should say that this differential may not be for everyone. If your the type of person that can deal with this sort of thing that go for it, but for most it can be very alarming. I think that if the car were a daily driver I would have spend a bit more time considering the quaife. However with me driving this car about 500 miles/year it wasnt even a consideration. Cant wait to install a KAZZ in the rear

Storm

 

[GPTourer]

Thanks for the review. I think I can deal with the clunking. Its the off chance that the Quaife can explode and take the tranny with it that sold me. Plus the fact that a KAAZ will truly lock under load. Hopefully, I'll be able to provide a 2G FWD review soon.

 

[Omega]

DSM Storm what kind of fluid are you using? I broke mine in with KAAZ fluid and it was always clunky. I then put in some mobil 1 and that was SUPER clunky and the trans hated it too. I then found Motul. The car now shifts better than the KAAZ fluid and there is very little clunking. Give it some more time to break in then swap over to the Motul, you will not be disappointed. I picked it up from some shop in Canada. Cool guys, had a long talk about the unit and what they use it in. If you want I can dig up the site.

Also, I have found that the KAAZ makes what sounds like a supercharger whine when you are really putting it though its' paces... it sounds pretty intimidating. Have you noticed the same thing?

With the posi and a set on winter tires, I was out with all the 4X4's this winter. I doubt that the Quaife would be able to do the same thing.

 

[99gst_racer]

Thanks for the review. I think I can deal with the clunking. Its the off chance that the Quaife can explode and take the tranny with it that sold me. Plus the fact that a KAAZ will truly lock under load. Hopefully, I'll be able to provide a 2G FWD review soon.

There has never been a front Quaife (in a DSM) known to explode and take out the trans. Only centers had that problem....

Here's what sold me on the Quaife.....
* I dont need to use special $10/quart fluid
* I didnt need to do 60 figure eights, 2 backflips, and say the magic word, just to break it in.
* I didnt have to change my driving style at all
And the #1 reason I went with the Quaife......
* I wont ever need to pull it out to rebuild it.

 

[GPTourer]

There has never been a front Quaife (in a DSM) known to explode and take out the trans. Only centers had that problem....

Aaah, okay. I thought I read of a GS-T eating one on another forum, maybe it was a phantom insert, I'll check.

Here's what sold me on the Quaife.....
* I dont need to use special $10/quart fluid

That doesn't really bother me. I already use Mobil 1 engine oil, and changing the KAAZ fluid once ever 30,000 miles is no biggie. It would take me almost 4 years to put 30,000 miles on my car at the rate I drive it.

* I didnt need to do 60 figure eights, 2 backflips, and say the magic word, just to break it in.

:laugh: That did concern me at first. But, usually the best mods carry some sort of price. One day off, a few hours set aside, a secluded parking lot - no biggie. Its no worse then driving 3-500 city miles or so without boosting on a new clutch, or letting a built motor warm every morning before driving.

* I didnt have to change my driving style at all

What do you mean by that? How will a KAAZ affect your driving style?

And the #1 reason I went with the Quaife......
* I wont ever need to pull it out to rebuild it.

Again, it would take me a long time to reach that point. And like the article on the Magnus site says, in ten years I could be dead, or most likely won't be driving this car anymore.

 

[99gst_racer]

What do you mean by that? How will a KAAZ affect your driving style?

Well, there's no more parking lot putting. You'd have to adapt to the differences in downshifting and cornering...

Again, it would take me a long time to reach that point. And like the article on the Magnus site says, in ten years I could be dead, or most likely won't be driving this car anymore.

ehhh, I dont see a clutch style LSD lasting ten years on a performance car. I could be wrong, but most clutches dont last 10 years, why would a clutch style LSD last that long?

Kaaz LSD's are great, as well as 60-1 turbos, 600 HP motors, and slicks, but my car is a street car not a race car. Thats why I use Quaife.

 

[Omega]

Why can't you putt around in parking lots?

You do have to change your driving style a little. The car goes where you point the tires. How that is a bad thing, I have no idea.

 

[99gst_racer]

Why can't you putt around in parking lots?

You can, it's just a PITA. While trying to turn at low (parking lot) speeds, the clutch packs begin to disengage causing the car to jerk. Parking lot putting is possible, just more difficult and annoying...

I guess what I like about the Quaife is that there is no break in, no special sauce, and you cant even tell it's there until you need it. It retains 100% drivability w/ no jerking and no noise....... And It Works!

 

[GPTourer]

Did you have a KAAZ before your Quaife?

I know about the locking and unlocking at slow speeds. I've experienced the sensation in a few four wheel drive vehicles I've driven. I just think that even if it is a nuisance at the low end, the full locking/repeatability factor will outweigh that on plus side.

 

[Omega]

Mine only clunks every now and again. Initially I did think that I bought the wrong unit. It was noisey and scared a few people with the sounds it used to make. My car is a daily driver so I had to live with it... plus for the quaife Now that it is worn in, you barely know it's there.

Who cares about the noise, you know it's working when it clunks!

I have over powered a zexel torsion posi before... quite fustrating. Have you had this happen to you? Generally it would do it from a stop when in a tight turn. I only ask because I am curious.. not as a dig against the unit.

 

[DSM Storm]

DSM Storm what kind of fluid are you using? I broke mine in with KAAZ fluid and it was always clunky. I then put in some mobil 1 and that was SUPER clunky and the trans hated it too. I then found Motul. The car now shifts better than the KAAZ fluid and there is very little clunking. Give it some more time to break in then swap over to the Motul, you will not be disappointed. I picked it up from some shop in Canada. Cool guys, had a long talk about the unit and what they use it in. If you want I can dig up the site.

Also, I have found that the KAAZ makes what sounds like a supercharger whine when you are really putting it though its' paces... it sounds pretty intimidating. Have you noticed the same thing?

With the posi and a set on winter tires, I was out with all the 4X4's this winter. I doubt that the Quaife would be able to do the same thing.

I broke the car in with Valvoline super syn GL-5 synthetic. I was planning on running the recommended KAAZ fluid after break in, however I will take your advice and try out the motul lubricant. I do plan to spend a little more time to break it in as I am not yet convinced that this is as quiet as it can get. Checked out your site. Nice ride BTW.

Storm