Which is the Best LSD?? Kaaz or Quaife??

[99gst_racer]

Dude, it's now Thursday, you said your tranny would be in by Monday.
I'm dying to know what you think, as I'm everyone in this tread is.
I'm looking into getting an LSD, and with my stk GST, I've spun the tires thru
a hard corner and ended up in the wrong lane.
I wonder if the Kaaz would promote that type of effect more so than the Quaiffe.

So what's up...

OK, here goes.... I dropped the car off on Monday as scheduled, but work on it didnt begin until Tuesday because of a small mounting discrepency. Tuesday, they dropped the tranny in and realized my axle spines were chewed up. A pair of alxes had to be ordered. They came in the next day and the car was ready to go by 3:00 PM. BUT, I work 2nd shift and I was at work by noon. Therefore, I had to wait until Thursday morning to pick up the car. That morning, I pulled the car out of the bay door. I drove 20 yards across the parking lot and........ boom. The cv axle ripped in half at the joint. My guess is, the axle they installed was a hair too short. It was sick looking. I was pissed. Needless to say, I let them know how mad I was, and they had a different, new axle in it within 2 hours. I drove the car around a little bit today, everthing feels good. I'm going to drive it all weekend and I'll post on Sunday how everything feels with the Quaife.

 

[NDgsx]

The thing I am not fond of with FWDs and torsen style diffs is there tendency to make a really bad torque steer reaction in very limited traction situations. My experience comes from VR6s, in the rain a torsen diff shoots power back and forth while the tires spin desperately claw for traction. I noticed this with Miata Rs as well, they can fishtail when you start making more power.
What I do like is that due to their transfer of torque before wheel spin the torsen FWDs actually take a tighter line through corners. I'm not talking about a simple reduction in understeer, but an actual reduction in steering input for the same turn. It's kind of hard to describe and takes a little bit of driving to get used to, but once you do it's very fun to drive.
I would NOT worry about it becoming an open diff. DSMs don't run enough front roll stiffness to lift the front inside tire.
Clutch pack LSDs do require some slippage to occur, so they don't have quite the same reaction cornering. However they are extremely consistent in their actions and more intuitive to drive. While torsen diffs are fun to drive, I prefer a clutch pack because it is more predictable to me.
If both tires are spinning badly they basically function as a locked diff, not torque steer reaction, which is also a bonus here in Washington.

Either one of them will work well, you just have to figure out what you want.

 

[flinguist]

I personally would go with the Kaaz. The performance of both the Quaife and Kaaz are similar, but the Kaaz is less expensive, and maybe not quite as hard on the tranny.

 

[JL12345]

how the hell would both front wheels locking be any good for cornering?? also how do you lift the inside FRONT wheel!? that link was rediculous.

FYI a quaife isnt a LSD its a ATB, it biases torque to which ever wheel has more traction or the one spinning slower, like the outside wheel in a turn. the quaife helps reduce understeer while the kaaz can only encourage it. hmm which would be better in an auto-x situation?

I have a quaife in my civic, and its great being able to give it more gas in a turn and feel the car actually pull through the turn rather than feel like i'm gonna go straight ahead into the curb.

quafe has a nice lifetime warranty, kaaz doesnt.
quaife can take any tranny fluid, kaaz cant.
quaife reduces understeer, kaaz cant.

also i've never gotten crazy torquesteer in the rain like what NDgsx is talking about.

 

[NDgsx]

I have a quaife in my civic,

also i've never gotten crazy torquesteer in the rain like what NDgsx is talking about.

Well there's your answer.

Clutch pack doesn't lock up when cornering.

 

[JL12345]

touche, hahahaah. my civic does have a higher final drive, a 4.7 as compared to the stock 4.25, so it makes a little more torque through gearing than a normal civic, and after the quaife install i have no torque steer while before i did.

it may not lock up but it sure doesnt bias power to the outside wheel in a turn, i talked to many people w/ the kaaz before deciding on the quaife. since they said it increased understeer, which they made up for with springs/anti-swaybars, i went with the quaife.

besides what if your tranny doesnt like the kaaz fluid, then your really f'd.

 

[DSMNightmare]

touche, hahahaah. my civic does have a higher final drive, a 4.7 as compared to the stock 4.25, so it makes a little more torque through gearing than a normal civic, and after the quaife install i have no torque steer while before i did.

it may not lock up but it sure doesnt bias power to the outside wheel in a turn, i talked to many people w/ the kaaz before deciding on the quaife. since they said it increased understeer, which they made up for with springs/anti-swaybars, i went with the quaife.

besides what if your tranny doesnt like the kaaz fluid, then your really f'd.

It's a tranny not a pet cat. There are tons of people use the Kaaz and they have been proven to work with the DSM tranny.

 

[JL12345]

thanks, that was very insightful. i guess all those threads about people using one kind of tranny fluid and it not working for them while others use it, and its great mean nothing right?

like when I used redline fluid in mine, it sucked. others swear by the crap like its liquid gold. and then i tried swepco, now this is supposed to be the greatest stuff out there, for me it sucked.

 

[DSMNightmare]

thanks, that was very insightful. i guess all those threads about people using one kind of tranny fluid and it not working for them while others use it, and its great mean nothing right?

like when I used redline fluid in mine, it sucked. others swear by the crap like its liquid gold. and then i tried swepco, now this is supposed to be the greatest stuff out there, for me it sucked.

I have yet to hear of anyone having a problem with the Kaaz fluid. Dude, do you even have a DSM? If not why are you here?

 

[GPTourer]

WHAT THE MAJORITY OF US GST'S NEED IS SOMETHING THAT PULLS US AROUND CURVES, THROUGH POTHOLE AND UNEVEN STREET PAVEMENT, AND ALLOWS US TO ACCELERATE WITHOUT SPIN AT FULL BOOST! Now, as best anyone can, please explain why someone thinks KAAZ, Quaife, or any other diff mod would be the way to go for the irresponsible catagory of DSM owner. How long does it take to wear out these products in spirited impromptu driving-10K? 40K? ever?
I would like to hear what LSD folks have experienced with their choice IN THE STREETS.

Old thread, but I was hoping for some sort of update. This guy got flamed for his over the top post, but part of what he said does make sense (to me) I am more interested in what is best for a street car and I was leaning towards the Quaife. But the KAAZ supporters say, it works everywhere just as good or better without the shortcomings of the Quaife.

I also see all the supporters for KAAZ (like the Magnus tech article) saying that if RE Amemiya, Nismo and Mazdaspeed use them, who's to argue with them? However, my GS-T has very little in common with a RX-7, 350Z or Supra. So, saying that a KAAZ is best for a RWD track car doesn't make me confident that it would be best for my FWD street car. I'd be curious into what teams like Realtime use in their RSX's, TSX's - FWD racecars. And since Nissan puts helical type (Quaife ATBs) as options on their manual trannied sedans, it would lead me to believe that it would be better for a street car. OTOH, OEMs have to account for things like noise, maintenance and stuff, and I'm still not convinced that a KAAZ would do better coming out of a corner then a Quaife on a FWD under power.

But those are just my thoughts. If anyone has any other insight or experience, please share.

 

[Omega]

I don't know WTF JL12345 is talking about with the KAAZ "creating" understeer... that is crap. Every car I have driven that has some balls to it, roasts the INSIDE tire around a corner. I added the posi and can now whip around corners.

Basicly it boils down to this:

Quiet = Quaife
2 unstopable front wheels = KAAZ
Random fluid = Quaife
"Warranty" = Quaife Has anyone tried to claim on said warranty?
Price = KAAZ

If you want quiet and a posi that will work 90% of the time with no other worries then buy the Quaife. If you don't mind the clunking around parking lots, being selective with fluids, but want a posi that won't quit then get the KAAZ. They both are good units, each has its' pros and cons. For a person wants a bolt in a forget posi, I whole heartedly recommend the Quaife. If you can live with the clucks, but want a posi that you know does exactly what you want, when you want then I suggest you look at the KAAZ.


Those with the KAAZ, what fluid are you using... I just found this:

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/motuloil.html

 

[GPTourer]

I don't know WTF JL12345 is talking about with the KAAZ "creating" understeer... that is crap.

I think what he means is that if the KAAZ locks the tires together under heavy load, that would force a FWD car to push wide since the inner wheel would have to go slower to negotiate a corner.

 

[99gst_racer]

*UPDATE* After posting this thread, I decided to go with the Quaife LSD for my 99 GST. I love it. My car is a street car and I purchased a LSD for 2 reasons. 1) I needed a new diff. because my stock expoded, and 2) I wanted better traction on my FWD. I didnt purchase the quaife for cornering (even though it was a huge improvement), I purchased it for it's streetable reliability and performance. After researching, I have concluded the following:

* Both are excellent performing LSD's and I would personally use either one.

*Quaife - more "street" oriented, less (none) maintence, great warrantee service (for front diff. only), workes well with most lsd fluids, I have never heard of a horror story of a front quaife "exploding", therefore, it has proven itself to be a very durrable unit.

*Kaaz - more "race" oriented (loud, cluncky, but not unbearable) , some maintence required, but only every 80K miles on average (which is reasonable), must use specific Kaaz fluid, cheaper on price (as apposed to Quaife).

I have never heard anyone purchase either one and hate it. It is a common fact that most race cars are using the clutch-pack style LSD (Kaaz) and most street cars are using the torsion style LSD (Quaife). Drift cars use Kaaz, OEM's use torsion style. My car is more OEM than is t drift. Not to mention, John Shepard recomended to Kaaz for race and Quaife for street when he had my tranny on his bench. I'm sure either unit would work well for almost any application, and both will get the job done. I've never used a Kaaz, but I can definately give two thumbs up to the Quaife. My local DSM friends agree. This is just some of the info that I gathered. Take it as you will.

Thanks -Paul-

 

[ITSME4G63]

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/motuloil.html

Maybe if you have a kazz, you should use the oil which is made by kaaz for kaaz? Just a thought.

 

[99gst_racer]

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/quaife/

 

[Strm Trpr]

99gst_racer

How is your GST in the corners?
Can you exit the turn gettin on it, cuz even though I'm stock, I still fry the
inside tire and end up pushing really wide thru the turn....
Being now that you have the Quaife and can vouch for it, now we need
someone with a Kaaz to give us their point of view on the street.....

 

[99gst_racer]

99gst_racer

How is your GST in the corners?

It feels great. Like the article above says, it biases power to the outside wheel, reducing inside-wheel spin. I can honestly say that if feels really good. No more spin, just grip.

Can you exit the turn gettin on it, cuz even though I'm stock, I still fry the
inside tire and end up pushing really wide thru the turn....
Being now that you have the Quaife and can vouch for it, now we need
someone with a Kaaz to give us their point of view on the street.....

I agree. Anyone using a Kaaz on a 2G FWD street car?

 

[pneumo]

I'd be suprised if anyone with a Kaaz posts their feedback. I'd also be very suprised if anyone on these boards actually owns a Kaaz. Back in June when I was searching the member profiles for people who had a Kaaz I also checked to see which ones were currently active. Only about half of the Kaaz owners were still active members. So then I sent a PM directly to a few of the active members asking them questions about their Kaaz, and I never got a reply.

It doesn't matter anyway, Quaife's are awesome!

 

[bizzydsm]

mike at dss told me if you want a drag car get kaaz if you want a street car to take to the track get quaife I am a fwd runnin 12s and I have a quaife It is super quiet and I think it is more streetable.

 

[Strm Trpr]

I've got a GST.....I know that I'll be at a road racetrack eventually, and I
want to hook up and power out of the corners..... Thanks for the info......

 

[14.5 drift]

kaaz for drag

quaife for handling.


The quaife is alot more flexible as far as grip goes, too flexible for drag. At the gate when you are doin a warm up burn out you only spin one wheel , same thing with the launch. Kaaz however works more like a solid axle, both tires are doing the same thing almost always.

How ever in the twisties the more forgivable quaife is preffered unless you plan on being a drifter.

Kaaz isn't that bad in the corners though, it's better than an open diff and being front wheel drive I would want all the traction i could get. I voted kaaz for al around performance.

 

[Strm Trpr]

So I guess the next question for 99gst_racer would be....

At a launch, would both wheels be locked up, or will the ATB of the Quaife distribute power back and forth to the wheel with the most grip....

 

[miguels3000]

Ive had a quaife for 8 months now. I "love" it, sometimes when i go on the freeway onramps i take them fast, half throttle entering the curve and give it all the gas half way's into it. the car grabs the turn great. then it kinda drifts a little to the outside but when i finally give it full throtle it grabs mad.... and pulls her straight.....wooowheee. damn makes me want to go do it right now.
I have a few mods and its convertable. but the quaife does its job really good.... and when i shift from first to second in spins the wheels a little then grabs imediatly. before i used to spin alot more..

 

[Omega]

On a launch, the Quaife will try its' best to balance power to both wheels.. if traction on one side spikes (gets some good grip) then ALL the power goes to the opposite wheel (reverts back to pegleg status) With the KAAZ, in a straight line, that sucker is locked, and locked regardless of each wheels amount of traction... hense the KAAZ for drag comment.

They are units that do the same thing but in a backwards mannor. The Quaife is open unless provoked, while the KAAZ is locked normally and only opens with no/little torque input.

 

[99gst_racer]

So I guess the next question for 99gst_racer would be....

At a launch, would both wheels be locked up, or will the ATB of the Quaife distribute power back and forth to the wheel with the most grip....

They dont nessacerily "lock", but power transfer is almost a perfect 50/50. I no longer have 1st gear spin. Torque steer and wheelhop are almost non-existant. And just for the record, corning is a huge improvment over an open diff..... HUGE.

-Paul-