whats the difference between a shortblock and a longblock?

[awdsm90]

whats the difference between a shortblock and a longblock if there still 6/7 bolts?

 

[LordZed]

Generally the difference is that a long block includes the head (or heads if it's a V motor) oil pan, intake and exhaust manifold. ALmost a complete engine san's accessories.
A short block is just the block, pistons, rod's and crank generally. The bolt, be it six or seven, just determines the number of crank bolts. Six bolt for early 1G cars and 7 bolt for late model 1g and 2g cars. Your year model will determine which you need. Unless you have a 2G and your swapping from a seven bolt to a six bolt....but that's another topic all together.

 

[JayRolla]

Lord is 100% correct.

 

[1g_tsi_awd]

Lord nailed it.

 

[LordZed]

I can also tell you the difference between a short bus and a long bus. I ride the short one

 

[Strm Trpr]

Short Block=
Block
Pistons
Con-rods
Crank

Long Block=
Is everything between the valve cover to oil pan
sans intake manifold and the exhaust manifold

Here's a pic of a Kar King Long Block.

 

[Blue95GST]

agree with lord on both replies,

 

[awdsm90]

ok i have several different post around the newbie forums. And also used to own a 90gsx and from my knowledge is that 6bolt is the best...but from what lord has writtin is that the 7bolt had more stuff on it... why is it that the 6 is way better besides the fact that i think it has way more power?
thanks guys

 

[snox135]

I don't see where lord said the 7 bolt has more stuff, the long block does. Also the 6 bolt does not have more power. Most people like the 6 bolt because it has very little chance to suffer from crankwalk.

 

[jeremy19984g63]

not trying to get off topic, but to anwser your question about 6 and7 bolt. the only thing that is different between the two is that the 6 bolts crank is nitrided and the 7 is not. The 7 bolt crank is soft and the journals that meet up with the thrust bearings wear and this causes crank walk. The thing that i don't understand is, if you guys are going to build a stroker engine anyway then just get a eagle crank for the 7 bolt. the eagle crank is nitrided, so there you go. The 7 bolt engine with the eagle work great and will never walk on you

 

[StR8sPo0Ln]

I don't see where lord said the 7 bolt has more stuff, the long block does. Also the 6 bolt does not have more power. Most people like the 6 bolt because it has very little chance to suffer from crankwalk.

To correct you, the early 7 bolt motors had no problem with crank walk. It was the 2g model 7 bolts that suffered from crank walk, because of a change in the metal used to make the block itself.

 

[jeremy19984g63]

To correct you, the early 7 bolt motors had no problem with crank walk. It was the 2g model 7 bolts that suffered from crank walk, because of a change in the metal used to make the block itself.

the crank not the block

 

[StR8sPo0Ln]

the crank not the block

Sorry, yes the Crank not the Block.

 

[1g_tsi_awd]

And, 6 bolts have stronger connecting rods, but 2gs have nicer pistons...

Just thought I would add that little bit...

 

[delta448]

the only thing that is different between the two is that the 6 bolts crank is nitrided and the 7 is not. The 7 bolt crank is soft and the journals that meet up with the thrust bearings wear and this causes crank walk.

Not true. I don't know wtf you're talking about with nitriding not being done... but, if the 7 bolt crank is so soft, how come the stock 7 bolt bottom end has held 500whp?

To correct you, the early 7 bolt motors had no problem with crank walk. It was the 2g model 7 bolts that suffered from crank walk, because of a change in the metal used to make the block itself.

There are numerous theories on the causes of crankwalk. I am not arguing that the metal couldn't be defected, but I am inclinded to believe the theory Magnus Motorsports has come up with regarding the piston oil squirters being the cause. 2G cars had a differently designed squirter which has been shown to malfunction and stay open, causing low oil pressure to the mains.

 

[jeremy19984g63]

well considering that the oil squirters are open and spraing the whole time the engine is operating and that the squirters could never diminish the pumps shear volume output. also the fact that if the mains resulted in low pressure situation, every other part of the engines oiling system would like-wise. defaults that theory

 

[jeremy19984g63]

and from the information that i have gathered on the 2g 7 bolt crank reveals, it was never nitrided from the factory and the 6 bolt was!

 

[LordZed]

Look guys, just because a bananna has more potassium than an apple...doesn't make it any easier to rescue the princess from the castle...know what I mean?
BTW I'm replacing all of my metric bolts with standard ones. I hear it's good for 30hp over the stock bolts.

 

[stb94tsi]

listen guy's we can go all night with 7/6 bolt stuff but when it comes down to it both are very strong engines.....

 

[stuckwithgsx]

so am i understanding this right? there is no difference in actual block size on a "long block" or short block"? and then are they just terms for retailers to use when selling them or something?

 

[LordZed]

so am i understanding this right? there is no difference in actual block size on a "long block" or short block"? and then are they just terms for retailers to use when selling them or something?

If your talking about the engines displacement, then yes they are the same at 2.0 liters. But it simply means the "engine comes with more stuff." as listed above.

 

[delta448]

well considering that the oil squirters are open and spraing the whole time the engine is operating and that the squirters could never diminish the pumps shear volume output. also the fact that if the mains resulted in low pressure situation, every other part of the engines oiling system would like-wise. defaults that theory

"Shear volume output" ...whatever, the engine's entire oil supply doesn't circulate through every point inside the engine.
The squirter oil supply is taken from a different location on 2G 7 bolts, different than where both 6 and 7 bolt 1G engines take supply from. Explains why 1G 7 bolts don't walk. Did you even read the article?

Taken directly from that page:
"The block on top is the 93, you can tell by the oil squirter passages just below the cylinder bores, they take their oil from the main oil gallery where there is plenty of oil flow and volume, right after the filter. The block below, the 95, has none because the squirters are located in the main journals pointing upwards toward the piston. They are sharing oil from the main bearings oil supply. This is the only major difference between the two blocks that we could find. It turns out to have more significance than previously thought"

 

[DarthBulk]

so am i understanding this right? there is no difference in actual block size on a "long block" or short block"? and then are they just terms for retailers to use when selling them or something?

Take a block (6 bolt or 7 bolt, who cares), put in a crankshaft, connecting rods, and pistons, and voila! You have a shortblock!

Now take that shortblock, and install the cylinder head, oil pan, front case, etc. and voila! You now have a long block!

Short and Long do not have anything to do with the size of the block. They are just terms used to describe at what stage of assembly you are at (i.e. how many parts you have put together towards making an engine).

 

[jeremy19984g63]

i will end my part in this thread by saying, riding a clutch or upgrading a pressure plate will eventually result in thrust bearing wear in any engine not mater the make or model.

 

[Phantom DSM]

man most threads about motors end up about 6 vs. 7 bolt. This topic has been gone through so much
The original question was innocent and about whats included on the assembly of a motor, instead it turns into crankwalk. Lets get along peoples and i have read the magnus theory, it sounds convincing. Take care everyone